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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 1:33 PM
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Windsorites have always had lots of options when it came to gay clubs. The city itself has maintained at least one to three clubs at any given time, plus we had Detroit with so many more options to choose from. Windsor is a pretty gay positive place for a city it's size, but this is probably due to being in the greater Detroit region.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 1:57 PM
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Religious affiliations, maybe (because as a society we tend to insist on secularism and laws priming over religion)... the rest, not really.

Does Alberta have black provincial MPs? Muslim provincial MPs? A black provincial Minister? We do, so that's not an obstacle to election, or having your limo after you're elected.

Amos, QC (one the larger towns in Abitibi... but you don't really get any more Rural Quebec than that) has had a black mayor for over a decade, and he's been a city councillor since the early 1990s... that's rural Quebec. Do Fort MacLeod, Taber, have ever had black mayors? Or any such place? (Not sure how apples-to-apples that is, but I'm trying.)





You can find racism absolutely everywhere on this planet, but that's, as you say, anecdotal. And there might be more to the story that I (or you) don't know about. You say he's a born and raised Calgarian... did he speak our language fluently? All things considered I would think that a white who doesn't (in everyday life) is likely to get frowned upon more than anyone 'brown' who does.
We can all bring up anecdotal examples of assumed tolerance or intolerance.

For example, the first black person elected as a a mayor in North America was elected by the French Canadian lumber town of Mattawa, Ontario on the Quebec border in 1964: Firmin Monplaisir.

In 1973 the 99.99% francophone and white Quebec town of Gagnon (now a ghost town) elected Haitian immigrant René Coicou as mayor and he remained mayor for many years.

And my own provincial riding here in Gatineau elected Haitian immigrant Jean Alfred as its rep at the National Assembly in 1976. Alfred, who was a member of the PQ, may have been the only non-white resident of the riding at the time.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 2:16 PM
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True, and often genuine tolerance is a result of having experienced intolerance combined with common good sense.

For example, it's useless to examine the attitudes of Newfoundlanders regarding visible minorities. Sure, there are Asian, Islamic and other tombstones nearly as old as any Christian ones in our cemeteries, but the number of visible minorities as a percentage of the population was and remains so low that... us talking about our relationship with visible minorities is a bit like "Heather McDonald Reviews Movies She's Never Seen" on Chelsea Lately.

On the other hand, LGBT tolerance education in our schools. It's so passionately supported because we suffered the embarrassing situation of having an extremely, rabidly anti-LGBT high school in a suburban town near St. John's. Heterosexual teachers working there literally quit their jobs it was so offensively bad... I can't even imagine what it was like for LGBT students. That's the experience part of it.

And then, the common good sense: the government was horrified by the statistics about how unsafe Canadian LGBT students feel in their schools, about how LGBT youth make up 40% of suicides in the country. In other provinces, it's being treated as a political issue. Here, it was viewed as a human rights issue and the whole training meant to turn things around was made mandatory. Every adult working in the schools has or will be trained; LGBT people are softly being introduced into the curriculum (i.e. "Mary and her wife Sue each have eight apples..."); new schools must have gender-neutral washrooms, trans students must be referred to (except on legal documents) by whatever name they choose, and on and on.

Usually you need those two things to come together to really make a difference, to get from just tolerating something to the level of acceptance we actually mean when we say "tolerance".
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by leftimage View Post
Iqaluit has a population of 7,000.

Gotta put the big boy pants and compare with the heavy hitters:

Van, MTL, TO, Ottawa, QC, Peg, Edmonton and Calgary

Calgary is the odd man, more conservative than the rest. And if that is not actually the case I can assure you it's what most Canadians would say in a family feud survey.
Ah, well, it must be true then. 47 people out of a hundred also named "chicken" as an animal whose legs you eat.

The real difficulty, of course, is measuring something as abstract as "conservatism".
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
I see Calgary as being similar to Austin - more conservative than most American cities, but still liberal enough, a beacon of hope in otherwise right-wing state.
Nah, Edmonton is Austin with the somehow conservative but ultimately indulging air; Calgary is Houston with the lesbian mayor and a growing liberal cadre in the political machine worming their way up, but still reliably conservative.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:30 PM
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Nah, Edmonton is Austin with the somehow conservative but ultimately indulging air; Calgary is Houston with the lesbian mayor and a growing liberal cadre in the political machine worming their way up, but still reliably conservative.
stereotypes are always fun.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:31 PM
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I disagree about small towns and acceptance. In many cases, I find they are as homophobic as the US Deep South.
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:31 PM
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I was going to say the same thing. I'm not gay myself, and don't pretend to know about gay living, but if I were gay I wouldn't care if if there is a 'gay village'. I'd rather just be part of the urban fabric with everyone else.

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It should be noted that most gays don't live in the "villages"

Most are living happy productive lives in and amongst their straight counterparts

A very well known gay author and playwright bought a house with his parter, just down from us in the mature 'burbs

Said my sweetie: "look honey, we're not the only gays in the village"

Lol
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:36 PM
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You couldn't be more wrong about Calgary being the odd man out and more conservative than the rest, but you're absolutely right about the Family Feud survey. Unfortunately old stereotypes die hard, especially for those who don't live here or have never visited here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftimage View Post
Iqaluit has a population of 7,000.

Gotta put the big boy pants and compare with the heavy hitters:

Van, MTL, TO, Ottawa, QC, Peg, Edmonton and Calgary

Calgary is the odd man, more conservative than the rest. And if that is not actually the case I can assure you it's what most Canadians would say in a family feud survey.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 4:50 PM
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One other thing to point out...

I've noticed (here as well) that people like to point to the existence of gay villages in certain communities as evidence that they were exceedingly homophobic. That's not often the case.

Cities in North America that gave gay villages are generally the ones whose LGBT communities were the first to push for visibility, acceptance, and equal rights. Gay villages came about as part of their efforts to bring homosexuality out of the closet. This made gay villages, like those in Toronto and Montreal, destinations for LGBT people from elsewhere in the city, province, and country - not only people who wanted to fight for their rights, but also those who simply wanted to take it easy and be themselves.

The existence of a gay village in a city doesn't really say anything about how accepting or homophobic it is. It just indicates that LGBT people have been living openly there, intentionally, since the days when this was universally shocking everywhere in North America.

Likewise, cities without gay villages are often just ones that didn't really have large populations and sizeable LGBT communities until relative acceptance had been achieved.

It's like... women earning the right to vote. You can look at country A and say surely it must have been more sexist because it had a suffragette movement, whereas country B didn't. But country B simply allowed women the vote when it was the norm the world over.

There are exceptions of course - cities where homosexuality was simply a non-issue, as was the case in many parts of Canada, especially (prior to the introduction of organized western religion) among First Nations.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:07 PM
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I don't disagree with you, that could very well be the case, but that doesn't make it right. Do I need to remind you how stereotypes work, and how often they are outdated and incorrect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leftimage View Post
Iqaluit has a population of 7,000.

Gotta put the big boy pants and compare with the heavy hitters:

Van, MTL, TO, Ottawa, QC, Peg, Edmonton and Calgary

Calgary is the odd man, more conservative than the rest. And if that is not actually the case I can assure you it's what most Canadians would say in a family feud survey.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
One other thing to point out...

I've noticed (here as well) that people like to point to the existence of gay villages in certain communities as evidence that they were exceedingly homophobic. That's not often the case.

Cities in North America that gave gay villages are generally the ones whose LGBT communities were the first to push for visibility, acceptance, and equal rights. Gay villages came about as part of their efforts to bring homosexuality out of the closet. This made gay villages, like those in Toronto and Montreal, destinations for LGBT people from elsewhere in the city, province, and country - not only people who wanted to fight for their rights, but also those who simply wanted to take it easy and be themselves.

The existence of a gay village in a city doesn't really say anything about how accepting or homophobic it is. It just indicates that LGBT people have been living openly there, intentionally, since the days when this was universally shocking everywhere in North America.

Likewise, cities without gay villages are often just ones that didn't really have large populations and sizeable LGBT communities until relative acceptance had been achieved.

It's like... women earning the right to vote. You can look at country A and say surely it must have been more sexist because it had a suffragette movement, whereas country B didn't. But country B simply allowed women the vote when it was the norm the world over.

There are exceptions of course - cities where homosexuality was simply a non-issue, as was the case in many parts of Canada, especially (prior to the introduction of organized western religion) among First Nations.
There's an important distinction to make between gay-focused commercial areas (which will also likely have a higher-than-average gay population) to serve as a focal point for a city's community; and residential gay ghettos that provide the only safe place for homosexuals to live and where no heterosexual would otherwise want to be. The former can exist within a homophobic society, but so too will they in more accepting ones as they serve a universal need - and will continue exist so long as the population to support them exists. The latter however is requires a certain level of discrimination, as they're a result of social pressure moreso than solely the the fulfillment of a cultural or economic role (though they can overlap, and as in most cities, one usually leads to the other). Not too much discrimination though - even a ghetto wouldn't be able to exist in highly homophobic societies like say, Saudi Arabia, where homosexuality is punishable by death. Just as Canadian gay villages didn't start appearing until the 1960s when the very being of their inhabitants was no longer a criminal offence.

Of course, all of this is moot if there isn't a critical mass to create any of these in the first place, as is the case in smaller centres. It's more of a societal thing than an individual urban one anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepstar View Post
I was going to say the same thing. I'm not gay myself, and don't pretend to know about gay living, but if I were gay I wouldn't care if if there is a 'gay village'. I'd rather just be part of the urban fabric with everyone else.
If you were gay you'd want to meet other gay men, which being a part of an invisible minority of 5-10% of the general population would be somewhat difficult living a fully integrated lifestyle in a fully integrated community. It's understandable that you'd have interests and a worldview that extends beyond the gay community - as is the case for most gay men I know, but such communities do still serve an important purpose.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Deepstar View Post
I was going to say the same thing. I'm not gay myself, and don't pretend to know about gay living, but if I were gay I wouldn't care if if there is a 'gay village'. I'd rather just be part of the urban fabric with everyone else.
But...would you be comfortable living in an exclusively gay neighborhood as a heterosexual? Would that neighborhood offer you the same amenities etc. that you'd find in a mostly exclusively heterosexual one?

Having said that, Toronto's main gayborhood has undergone a real change in 30 years. It's no longer the go to place for every single gay person (I find it slightly depressing and decrepit -I find the Castro like this too). Ultimately it's still the main queer artery but no gay person in this city necessarily feels they need to live there or "party" on Church St. anymore. And a lot of that is credit to Queer activists that came before us.

If you're a gay family you more than likely live in Leslieville. If you are 20something your go to place is probably the west end, which is a lot more integrated.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:17 PM
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In Calgary, the go-to neighbourhoods for young gay couples (aka just couples ) are either Beltline or Kensington. I feel like the East Village will take the reins of this. Most established couples I know live in the Northwest though, not sure why that quadrant, but that's my experience
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 8:22 PM
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But...would you be comfortable living in an exclusively gay neighborhood as a heterosexual? Would that neighborhood offer you the same amenities etc. that you'd find in a mostly exclusively heterosexual one?

Having said that, Toronto's main gayborhood has undergone a real change in 30 years. It's no longer the go to place for every single gay person (I find it slightly depressing and decrepit -I find the Castro like this too). Ultimately it's still the main queer artery but no gay person in this city necessarily feels they need to live there or "party" on Church St. anymore. And a lot of that is credit to Queer activists that came before us.

If you're a gay family you more than likely live in Leslieville. If you are 20something your go to place is probably the west end, which is a lot more integrated.
Why wouldn't anyone (be they gay or str8) be comfortable living anywhere? As an openly gay man (and urban planner) I find this discussion fascinating. As I understood the history of 'gay villages' - they were a congregation place for gay men/women to live and be around each other because of the fact that for many years, being gay was illegal. They became places where (much like other minorities) you could be safe and stand together as one united community.

Now, as society is changing (particularly in Canada) their purpose seems really questionable? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Davie Street and Church Street and I see no reason to push them out of existence. These places have history for how they came to be. But I don't really see a point in creating new ones because if the whole point was to be a safe place because we had little to no legal rights - what is the need for them now, where we enjoy much more legal rights? Or is it that we still feel that despite (on paper) we have those freedoms but the reality hasn't changed?

If it is that the reality and the rights on paper has a divide, then yes - we will see these places remain strong and grow. But I suspect in most urban centres (and I live in Calgary, so I've seen it changing over the years) there seems to be that general acceptance and support. I agree with others in this forum, the rural areas - not so much. But I don't feel unsafe in Calgary; where I might be more 'uneasy' in more rural spots.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 9:06 PM
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Here's an excellent story out of Alberta..


Marianne Ryan RCMP: Alberta's Top Mountie, Gay Officer, Says She's Been Treated With Respect
"If I can make it, anyone can make it,"
CP | By Chris Purdy, The Canadian Press


Quote:
EDMONTON - Alberta's first top-ranking female RCMP officer says she has always been treated with respect as a gay officer in the force.

While the RCMP have been rocked by allegations of harassment in recent months and face several lawsuits, newly appointed assistant Commissioner Marianne Ryan said she has been treated well.

She choked back tears Wednesday as she thanked her partner during a change-of-command ceremony in Edmonton.

"I think it's important to be who you are and the RCMP is a very diverse and welcoming organization. And after 32 years, I'm very proud to be in the organization because of who we are," she told reporters afterwards.

"I'm very fortunate to be able to say the RCMP has always treated me with a great deal of respect."

An RCMP spokesman said Ryan is the first openly gay officer in charge of Alberta.
Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/01...n_4691179.html
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 9:21 PM
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Would Club 200 in Winnipeg qualify as a village? I jest..but it was always talked about by Winnipeger's in the past.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 9:58 PM
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As a heterosexual, white, drug-free English-speaking man, I'm certainly immune to and ignorant of any and all social conservatism, because basically all of society is designed to support me and my tastes.

So I'll ask the gay Calgarians here - where is this "socially conservative" side of Calgary that I never see? Do we have a lot of gay bashing incidents? Are people being denied jobs because of their skin colour? Are single moms looked down upon? Do AIDS patients get sent to leper colonies? Do we have prisons full of recreational drug users?

I can't ever experience any of this directly so I'm a bit in the dark. Perhaps those that live here can enlighten me. Surely it's common knowledge given how much authority so many people here have spoken about it with.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Why wouldn't anyone (be they gay or str8) be comfortable living anywhere? As an openly gay man (and urban planner) I find this discussion fascinating. As I understood the history of 'gay villages' - they were a congregation place for gay men/women to live and be around each other because of the fact that for many years, being gay was illegal. They became places where (much like other minorities) you could be safe and stand together as one united community.

Now, as society is changing (particularly in Canada) their purpose seems really questionable? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Davie Street and Church Street and I see no reason to push them out of existence. These places have history for how they came to be. But I don't really see a point in creating new ones because if the whole point was to be a safe place because we had little to no legal rights - what is the need for them now, where we enjoy much more legal rights? Or is it that we still feel that despite (on paper) we have those freedoms but the reality hasn't changed?

If it is that the reality and the rights on paper has a divide, then yes - we will see these places remain strong and grow. But I suspect in most urban centres (and I live in Calgary, so I've seen it changing over the years) there seems to be that general acceptance and support. I agree with others in this forum, the rural areas - not so much. But I don't feel unsafe in Calgary; where I might be more 'uneasy' in more rural spots.
Because...generally people gravitate to ghettos of like minded, like-cultured, like-raced people.

I think it's great to say I have a diversity of friends etc. but the truth is as much diversity as there is among my friends culturally the majority of us are gay or lesbian. Nothing against straight people but the older one gets as a gay person the less interesting straight people seem with their spectator sports fanaticism, more rigid gender-role constructs and this is key: offspring. Not saying I necessarily connect all that well with my top 40 loving gay friends, as I do lament, sometimes, the time gay meant outsider; but with acceptance does come a certain amount of banality.


Yeah the gay ghetto might seem to have run its course but as many rights we may think we have or have gained, you'd be a fool to think that every gay that comes out gets the red carpet treatment from society.

Gay bashings are actually more common in places with high visibility gay communities. Cities are diverse places and that means everything from the vegan alien worshiping two spirited pacifist to the neo-nazi.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2014, 10:05 PM
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I don't disagree with you, that could very well be the case, but that doesn't make it right. Do I need to remind you how stereotypes work, and how often they are outdated and incorrect?
No need to remind me, but what about the city's voting record?

The conservative party of Canada may not be as bad as it`s US counterpart - the fact remains its a more socially conservative party than the Liberals.

All eight of Calgary's federal MPs are members of the Conservative Party of Canada. 100% conservative - in a city no less !

Also, Calgary is represented by twenty-five provincial MLAs, including twenty Progressive Conservatives, three Liberals, and two members of the Wildrose Party.

I mean... this is not just stereotypes I`m going by here...
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