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  #61  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2017, 10:52 PM
balletomane balletomane is offline
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Maybe this thread should've included the topic of cross-border regions provincially too. If the US has all these "emerging megaregions" I'm sure Canada has many too,
Vancouver/Seattle/Portland,
Calgary/Edmonton,
Saskatoon/Regina,
Quebec City-Windsor/Detroit corridor (with subregions),
Maritimes.
Winnipeg seems to be the only major Canadian city without a counterpart.
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  #62  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2017, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by balletomane View Post
Maybe this thread should've included the topic of cross-border regions provincially too. If the US has all these "emerging megaregions" I'm sure Canada has many too,
Vancouver/Seattle/Portland,
Calgary/Edmonton,
Saskatoon/Regina,
Quebec City-Windsor/Detroit corridor (with subregions),
Maritimes.
Winnipeg seems to be the only major Canadian city without a counterpart.
Saskatoon-Regina megaregion ?
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  #63  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2017, 11:07 PM
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Four? I see two: Vancouver-Seattle and the Great Lakes. Which "four" are you talking about?
There are three colors that extend into Canada -- the shade of "Northeast Red" goes into Canada to kinda-include Sherbrooke, Montreal, and the eastern half of the Ottawa-Gatineau circle.

If you consider that there's a shade of orange that goes into Canada at the MN/NWO border, then I suppose that's how you count four, but there's actually only three, because that's the same color as southern Ontario, even though it's detached from it from a Canadian POV on the map.
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  #64  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2017, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal View Post
Saskatoon-Regina megaregion ?
Not presently. Those US megaregions are looking ahead to 2050. The Saskatoon-Regina region is probably home to about 600,000 people but should easily crack 1,000,000 by 2050. I wouldn't classify that a megaregion but still an urban corridor.

Maybe sometime in the near future we'll see a Calgary-Edmonton and Saskatoon-Regina high speed rail.

Last edited by balletomane; Mar 31, 2017 at 12:37 AM.
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  #65  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 12:48 AM
Sarah89 Sarah89 is offline
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As others have said the cross border "integration" is not that common in the day in age. Maybe 100 years ago but the ties, family ties especially have really diminished. I believe Canadians and Americans have drifted apart more culturally than one would guess.
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  #66  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 1:42 AM
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The topic of this thread actually raises additional questions, like how current border security issues, Trump era politics, international relations, globalization, etc., will affect the integrity of these regions, perhaps lessening their functionality and importance. Presumably cross border regions will be weakened.
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  #67  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
There are three colors that extend into Canada -- the shade of "Northeast Red" goes into Canada to kinda-include Sherbrooke, Montreal, and the eastern half of the Ottawa-Gatineau circle.

If you consider that there's a shade of orange that goes into Canada at the MN/NWO border, then I suppose that's how you count four, but there's actually only three, because that's the same color as southern Ontario, even though it's detached from it from a Canadian POV on the map.
Well, now we're talking about colours on a silly map that suggests that St. Louis is in the same "region" as Toronto, so these are all grains of salt. While it's clear that southern Ontario has always been a vital economic cog in the midwest/Great Lakes region, it's pretty far-fetched to think of Montreal, Ottawa and Quebec City as part of the Bos-Wash corridor aka Northeast.

If anything, as part of the Quebec-Windsor corridor it would make more sense to link Montreal, Ottawa and Quebec City up to southern Ontario and by extension the Great Lakes region than it would be to include it as part of the northeast.

Last edited by rousseau; Mar 31, 2017 at 3:48 AM. Reason: Grammar
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  #68  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 3:26 AM
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^ Because, we're just an extension of the United States. We are just forgotten bits of America, misplaced appendices which accidentally project north of the border.
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  #69  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 3:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Well, now we're talking about colours on a silly map that suggests that St. Louis is in the same "region" as Toronto, so these are all grains of salt.
Yeah, obviously. I didn't make that map, I was merely answering your question.


Quote:
While it's clear that southern Ontario has always been a vital economic cog in the midwest/Great Lakes region, it's pretty far-fetched to think of Montreal, Ottawa and Quebec City as part of the Bos-Wash corridor aka Northeast.

If anything, as part of the Quebec-Windsor corridor it would make more sense to link Montreal, Ottawa and Quebec City up to southern Ontario and by extension the Great Lakes region than it would be to included it as part of the northeast.
Agreed. BTW, as you might have noticed on the previous page, I have been openly criticizing that map (as have others).

In a continental context, it sure doesn't make sense to place a region border between Quebec City and Montreal; it doesn't make sense to place a region border between Montreal and Ottawa-Gatineau; it doesn't make sense to place a region border between Ottawa and Toronto; it doesn't make sense to place a region border between Toronto and London; it doesn't make sense to place a region border between London and Windsor.

It could make sense to place one between Windsor and Detroit, though.

However, the Appalachians are a slightly more natural "border" for separating regions, as you point out, which would mean, as you said, that all of southern Quebec would get lumped with the faraway U.S. Midwest rather than with New England just next door, if we have to pick.

We still run into problems because you have places like Plattsburgh and Burlington which are both guaranteed to be "U.S. Northeast" regionally, yet they are somewhat within Montreal's orbit, so, that's a grey zone overlapping "Great Lakes (QC-Windsor corridor)" and "Northeast" there.

Though now that I've typed this, there's an even more obvious grey zone within New York State which is certainly itself a continuum between "squarely Great Lakes" in its westernmost parts and "squarely Northeast/BosWash" in its extreme southeastern parts. Basically, these two so-called megaregions inevitably have some vaguely-defined contact areas where they touch or overlap.
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  #70  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 4:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Though now that I've typed this, there's an even more obvious grey zone within New York State which is certainly itself a continuum between "squarely Great Lakes" in its westernmost parts and "squarely Northeast/BosWash" in its extreme southeastern parts. Basically, these two so-called megaregions inevitably have some vaguely-defined contact areas where they touch or overlap.
For sure. Rochester and Buffalo are squarely within the midwest, and they've got the nasally "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" accent to prove it (like in Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis). But once you hit Ithaca you really do feel like you've left the midwest and have entered the northeast. My sister teaches at Ithaca College, we make regular trips there, and it's fascinating how different it feels from anything in New York north and northwest of it.

Actually, it's also fascinating how it feels just a tiny bit less alien to southern Ontario than Buffalo or Detroit do. While I'm certainly not suggesting that New England is similar to southern Ontario culturally, I do think you really would have tons of cross-border romances and cultural activities, more of a Vancouver-Seattle thing going on, if it were Boston that were two hours away from Toronto and not, argh...fucking Buffalo.

I have no patience for Buffalo. Or the rust belt personality in general, characterized as it is by a nasty accent and a tetchy, passive-aggressive dourness.

Da Bears.
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  #71  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 4:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
For sure. Rochester and Buffalo are squarely within the midwest, and they've got the nasally "Northern Cities Vowel Shift" accent to prove it (like in Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis). But once you hit Ithaca you really do feel like you've left the midwest and have entered the northeast. My sister teaches at Ithaca College, we make regular trips there, and it's fascinating how different it feels from anything in New York north and northwest of it.

Actually, it's also fascinating how it feels just a tiny bit less alien to southern Ontario than Buffalo or Detroit do. While I'm certainly not suggesting that New England is similar to southern Ontario culturally, I do think you really would have tons of cross-border romances and cultural activities, more of a Vancouver-Seattle thing going on, if it were Boston that were two hours away from Toronto and not, argh...fucking Buffalo.
I could see that. There is more similarity in terms of affluence and culture with the Northeast Corridor than Upstate NY and Michigan, though it's not quite as similar as Vancouver and Seattle.

The only part that I really feel like things blend into each other on both sides of the border are between Washington and BC, though there are still differences, as others have mentioned. Montana and Alberta don't interact much until south of Lethbridge, past the major population centres, and feel culturally distinct. Same for Saskatchewan/Manitoba and the Dakotas. I could see some blending between Northwest Ontario and Minnesota, but I'm not terribly familiar with that region. Duluth seems far poorer than Thunder Bay. There also seems to be a bit of blending between New England and the Maritimes, but New England is more urban, industrial, dichotomized (very poor and very rich), while the Maritimes is much more tied to the sea, has French speaking regions, less poverty, etc.
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  #72  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 4:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Actually, it's also fascinating how it feels just a tiny bit less alien to southern Ontario than Buffalo or Detroit do. While I'm certainly not suggesting that New England is similar to southern Ontario culturally, I do think you really would have tons of cross-border romances and cultural activities, more of a Vancouver-Seattle thing going on, if it were Boston that were two hours away from Toronto and not, argh...fucking Buffalo.
I'm no expert on that, but I have the feeling there's some of this "cross-border connection" between Anglo/Jewish Montreal and neighboring Burlington (using that "not feeling alien" yardstick of yours, it's probably quite a bit closer to Vancouver-Seattle than to anything Toronto has with anything nearby.)
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  #73  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 8:16 AM
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outside of seattle, Buffalo and detroit, the US side of the border doesn't have anything big close to the border does it?

Are there rail connections? Vancouver - Portland has the Amtrak Cascades line.

Can you really catch a train from New York to Montreal like Ross did on Friends?
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  #74  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 8:42 AM
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Can you really catch a train from New York to Montreal like Ross did on Friends?
Amtrack as well.


Taking a Train from Montréal to New York on NewYorkCity.ca
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  #75  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ue View Post
There also seems to be a bit of blending between New England and the Maritimes, but New England is more urban, industrial, dichotomized (very poor and very rich), while the Maritimes is much more tied to the sea, has French speaking regions, less poverty, etc.
The thing is, where New England and the Maritimes meet is along the Saint John River Valley and Aroostock county primarily. They have a long history of interrelations that have only really begun to separate in recent decades.

You can't really consider Houlton/Fort Fairfield/Presque Isle Mainers like your standard New Englander; they are in general a much more rural/farming/hunting bunch than the urbanite New Englander you tend to think of from Mass for example. Really, IMO, Maine doesn't feel like 'true' New England until you get down to the Bangor area.
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  #76  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 3:27 PM
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Two things that I have not seen mentioned in this thread is that the cross border cultural integration is less so then previous generations are:

1. Significantly increased immigration in Canada with a corresponding shift in immigration patterns vs the US.

2. Significantly increased internal migration patterns in Canada. So for example 100 years ago migrants to Alberta were more likely to be from the US but now they are Canadians from other provinces.
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  #77  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 6:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
Amtrack as well.


Taking a Train from Montréal to New York on NewYorkCity.ca
okay cool.

so outside of those few routes i don't think one can get from alberta or manitoba to the states by passenger train. The west of the US is pretty rural and sparse except for the seattle - vancouver corridor. There are no big significant equivalent cities on the US side for cities like Calgary, Regina or Winnipeg to have a relationship with, within a reasonable travel time or distance of under 200 km.

But how about religious ties? I know a few Mormons here in BC who have fairly strong ties with Utah, for example they send their kids to University there and some end up marrying Americans and then there are the whole polygamists ties between BC and Utah. I think Alberta has some of the same thing with mormons too, don't they have a big temple in Lethbridge?
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  #78  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 6:35 PM
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^ How much does the railway connection matter, really? I doubt the one train a day from Vancouver to Portland does much on its own to foster cross-border connections... the reality is that train ridership is probably a rounding error next to the numbers who fly or drive.
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  #79  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 7:17 PM
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its the fact that they can have a viable train option is all and washington state just approved a million dollar study into looking at a high speed rail link between seattle and vancouver.

The train is a really big deal here cause it really compliments the cruise ship industry here which is pretty much all here to serve american tourists.

There is no city of equivalent size to winnnipeg, calgary or regina within 2 hours on the US side. Outside of BC, Ontario. I don't think Quebec has a large significant city to pair with either.

Most of the northern states are pretty rural and sparsely populated. Compared to Canadian cities within close proximity to the border.
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Last edited by SpongeG; Mar 31, 2017 at 7:30 PM.
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  #80  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2017, 7:26 PM
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Had Canada grown to 100 million like Laurier wanted back in the 1910's there would probably be much more regional integration. Especially in those more sparsely populated areas in the prairies.
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