Calgary's next 'Trendy District'

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by Me&You

I think there are parts that will be dense, but I can't come to call the furthest-out suburb the next "trendy district".

Long term, I think Ramsay will be the one...

I'm sure that's what they said about Marda Loop at first too.

I think Mohagany has what its takes. And with the right route for transit, it could blossom. Maybe not into a Kengsington or 17 Ave SW, but into a Marda Loop or a Brittania Plaza-esque (Elbow and 44 Ave??) area.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by entheosfog

Wow. That's quite the walk. My girlfriend was asking me the other day if there is a continual sidewalk from 17th Ave SW to where she works in Millrise. She's thinking of biking to work if there's a transit strike. Doesn't the sidewalk end around Anderson?? How would you get around on foot/bike in that area I wonder...

My advice is to use Elbow Drive in that case. At least you get sidewalks for most of it. The sidewalk on the west side of Macleod ends a bit short of Southland drive and then reappears a short time later, on the east side it is there but quite narrow. But you still have to go down into the park if you want to cross.

[DizzyEdge]

And Elbow drive is much more scenic

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Boris550

BTW, Macleod Trail really sucks walking down. Last May (aka. last time I spent a month looking for summer jobs) I walked from Chinatown to Fish Creek/Lacombe... man that pedestrian experience sucks. The only parts that are decent to walk on (but by no means urban or trendy) are around Heritage and the stretch from Cemetary Hill to Chinook. Otherwise, you get stuck in situations where there might be no sidewalk on one side of the street, you suddenly end up having to go really out of your way just to get over a crossing (you actually have to go down into Fish Creek Park to get across), or the road speeds up and you have cars flying past at 90km/hr.

Yeah, Macleod trail pretty much sucks, the only area where you could even think of creating a 'cool' area without massive redevelopment is maybe around 49th avenue, where there's some 50s/60s buildings without parking in front. Think the Taj Mahal/Memory Express, and the hobby shop on the other side of Macleod. Honestly though, although having unbroken sidewalks would be nice, I think Macleod should stay car-friendly, and if possible transfer every other car friendly business there!

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Yeah, Macleod trail pretty much sucks, the only area where you could even think of creating a 'cool' area without massive redevelopment is maybe around 49th avenue, where there's some 50s/60s buildings without parking in front. Think the Taj Mahal/Memory Express, and the hobby shop on the other side of Macleod. Honestly though, although having unbroken sidewalks would be nice, I think Macleod should stay car-friendly, and if possible transfer every other car friendly business there!

Macleod north of 17th Ave has hope at least!

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

And Elbow drive is much more scenic

That's fer sure. She sometimes walks home down Elbow from Chinook LRT to the Beltline. That one stretch of Elbow before you get to Mission has some of nicest old homes outside Mount Royal. So many blocks of old houses without a single infill.
Except that one area on the east side of Elbow Drive around 38 Ave where they clear-cut a whole bunch of old houses and the land has sat empty for almost a couple of years now

[DizzyEdge]

Yeah, Beltline Macleod is a different creature altogether, much better!
Even north of 25th ave has potential, especially once north-east Erlton gets redeveloped.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by entheosfog

That's fer sure. She sometimes walks home down Elbow from Chinook LRT to the Beltline. That one stretch of Elbow before you get to Mission has some of nicest old homes outside Mount Royal. So many blocks of old houses without a single infill.
Except that one area on the east side of Elbow Drive around 38 Ave where they clear-cut a whole bunch of old houses and the land has sat empty for almost a couple of years now

A friend of a friend's folks owned that giant house that they sold for redevelopment.. at one time just north of there was another giant house that was also torn down to build smaller ones.. ironically it's in the Elbow park walking tour booklet as 'The most palatial house in EP (demolished 2000)'... <shakes head>

[entheosfog]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Yeah, Beltline Macleod is a different creature altogether, much better!
Even north of 25th ave has potential, especially once north-east Erlton gets redeveloped.

There's so much more potential with that stretch, though. But especially more so if the used car dealerships go...

[yads]

Originally Posted by entheosfog

My girlfriend was asking me the other day if there is a continual sidewalk from 17th Ave SW to where she works in Millrise. She's thinking of biking to work if there's a transit strike.

I'm pretty sure biking on sidewalks is illegal.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by yads

I'm pretty sure biking on sidewalks is illegal.

It is. Adults should never bike on sidewalks unless the sidewalk doubles as a pathway.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

I'm sure that's what they said about Marda Loop at first too.

I think Mohagany has what its takes. And with the right route for transit, it could blossom. Maybe not into a Kengsington or 17 Ave SW, but into a Marda Loop or a Brittania Plaza-esque (Elbow and 44 Ave??) area.

I still can't agree with Mahogany. Even Marda Loop is being discounted in this discussion due to it's relative seclusion. If you consider Brittania Plaza (which is at 50th ave) "trendy", then the little strip in McKenzie Towne is "trendy"... I was thinking on a larger scale... and not just the retail/commercial side, but residential as well. One thing a new area can never duplicate is mature vegitation, which seems to bring alot to an area.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Me&You

I still can't agree with Mahogany. Even Marda Loop is being discounted in this discussion due to it's relative seclusion. If you consider Brittania Plaza (which is at 50th ave) "trendy", then the little strip in McKenzie Towne is "trendy"... I was thinking on a larger scale... and not just the retail/commercial side, but residential as well. One thing a new area can never duplicate is mature vegitation, which seems to bring alot to an area.

Yeah, I really don't see the hip urban youth clamouring to live 200 blocks from downtown. The difference between Marda Loop and Mohagony will be extreme. Mohagony might end up like Mackenzie Towne if it is lucky, it will not be trendy. The density really just isn't that extreme, isn't is shy of 10 000 people per mile. Like the population of the Beltline in an area four times the size but without the office space or destinations. So fewer people and no ability to draw on the whole city to support services. It won't be much denser than Acadia, and no one talks about hanging out in Acadia. It would be less dense than Windsor Park (which has about 13 000 ppsm, well, half that but half the neighbourhood is a golf course so the populated half is like that) and Windsor Park isn't a destination despite the much more central location than Mohagony (though I'll readily admit that being across the street from the city's biggest mall probaboly doesn't help much).

Basicly Mohagony is a dense suburb, there will not be any thing urban about it and it will not be trendy.

[DizzyEdge]

I think for an area far from downtown to be 'trendy' it would have to have a) direct transit access, preferably LRT b) have lot of quite small sq ft retail, so that typical chain stores don't make it like every other retail area c) lots of rental housing, vs single family homes and condos, which will attract people who may have less use for a) and b)

[Boris2k7]

Stage 1 of Mahogany is at 10.5upa. Correct my math if it's wrong, but that's 6720 units/square mile. What is the average number of people per house nowadays? 2.3 or so? That's 15456 people/square mile.

Of course, that is half of what the Beltline population is right now. They say they are concentrating the density in a TOD, but I wouldn't have high hopes for a trendy strip. Suburban design in Calgary just isn't there yet...

[DizzyEdge]

Also doesn't help the odds that there's no really trendy area in Calgary more than 15-20 blocks from the downtown core.

That said, I would go somewhere further if a) lots of other people were too (people watching) b) it had retail or attractions that are different than other areas, or at least different than your typical shopping mall, c) it has ENOUGH of a) and especially b) that a long transit or car ride is worth it as there's enough to waste a couple of hours on.

[DizzyEdge]

What I think is interesting about these discussions is that in my mind it *is* possible to create from scratch an area as cool and trendy as ones that have just become that way organically, but it has to be done perfectly.

[You Need A Thneed]

Originally Posted by furrycanuck

It is. Adults should never bike on sidewalks unless the sidewalk doubles as a pathway.

Up until the day before you turn 16 years old, it's illegal to ride on the street, which means you ride on the sidewalk. The day you turn 16, it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Boris550

Stage 1 of Mahogany is at 10.5upa. Correct my math if it's wrong, but that's 6720 units/square mile. What is the average number of people per house nowadays? 2.3 or so? That's 15456 people/square mile.

Of course, that is half of what the Beltline population is right now. They say they are concentrating the density in a TOD, but I wouldn't have high hopes for a trendy strip. Suburban design in Calgary just isn't there yet...

Well, you've got the math right but I don't think you can just extrapolate for the whole community or use the average household size. Maybe of those units would likely be condos (which I beleive have like 1.something people per unit) and the numbers wouldn't apply to retail areas. Really there should be a requirement that all new community retail areas (like not power centers and malls, just little strip malls) be biult with residential above the retail. But in any case I wasn't going with the upa figures, I was going with what I roughly remembered the size of the community and its planned population was. It was something like 18 000 people in roughly one and a half miles. So I shouldn't have said shy of 10 000, its more than that, but not by too much, it is still between Acadia and Windsor Park in density, and neither are destinations.

[Tobyoby]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Also doesn't help the odds that there's no really trendy area in Calgary more than 15-20 blocks from the downtown core.

That said, I would go somewhere further if a) lots of other people were too (people watching) b) it had retail or attractions that are different than other areas, or at least different than your typical shopping mall, c) it has ENOUGH of a) and especially b) that a long transit or car ride is worth it as there's enough to waste a couple of hours on.

Marda Loop is farther than 20 blocks from the core.