San Francisco Squalor: City Streets Strewn With Trash, Needles And Human Feces - Page 3

jtown,man · #41 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The North One

That sounds like a horrible idea and a great way to get stabbed. You lose either way getting into an altercation with somebody who's mentally ill, they'll learn no lesson and you'll have a nicely fucked up nose to live with.

I always thought people causing property crime like that were more likely on drugs than mentally ill. Sure, they could be mentally ill and on drugs...but yeah.

I have stopped two people stealing bikes and brought a guy to the police who punched his fiancé on Halloween(I witnessed this from my window) to the police. I have zero issue stepping in, I was detached for 6 months to do security for my base so I have training and I am pretty aware to my situation/surroundings.

jtown,man · #42 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford

If you are homeless, or generally poor, it would be pretty stupid to move from SF to Memphis. Homeless and poor aren't paying market rents in SF, obviously.

These folks need services and subsidies. SF provides it, Memphis doesn't.

Good point. So the issue isn't SF affordability, its that its politicians and the people who vote for them have encouraged them to move there.

jtown,man · #43 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark

Sorry but I remember when this happened---it's part of his legacy and cities are dealing with this 30 years later.

And it's growing everywhere...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...l-count-crisis

This is a huge national problem. Why isnt there a clear, national plan to confront this problem?

I don't know why...probably because homeless people are suppose to be invisible and probably don't vote so no one cares about them(politicians).

But we have had two D presidents and also many D congresses since Reagan. The fact is no one cares about this issue, so I think its silly blaming a president who has been dead for years and hasn't had power in over 30. Do we blame Truman for our healthcare system or Obama and Trump? Recency matters.

sopas ej · #44 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:15 PM**

Cool, someone who senses patterns.

This is why we need to stop voting for the same two political parties.

dimondpark · #45 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I don't know why...probably because homeless people are suppose to be invisible and probably don't vote so no one cares about them(politicians).

But we have had two D presidents and also many D congresses since Reagan. The fact is no one cares about this issue, so I think its silly blaming a president who has been dead for years and hasn't had power in over 30. Do we blame Truman for our healthcare system or Obama and Trump? Recency matters.

But he was to blame and it doesnt matter what party is in power. Prior to Reagan, 3 presidents(Carter, Nixon and Kennedy) made strong and effective policy on this issue...back when America was great I suppose. lmao.

But youre right, no one in power in DC cares because it's not politically expedient and most Americans live, work and play in suburbia so to them this is a non issue.

mthd · #46 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:28 PM**

i'm not saying that homeless on the streets and their associated behavior isn't an issue... but this is blown way out of proportion.

my family and i collectively walk about 10-15 miles in SF every day. i might see one example of this kind of thing - a needle, a bunch of rotting food, whatever, in a given day. yes, there are homeless people, mostly mentally ill or addicted, and they need help.

but squalor? third world? absolutely not. anyone who says that has never been to the third world, or in their visits to SF they hang out exclusively on a handful of very bad blocks in the TL, under the freeway, etc.

jtown,man · #47 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimondpark

But he was to blame and it doesnt matter what party is in power. Prior to Reagan, 3 presidents(Carter, Nixon and Kennedy) made strong and effective policy on this issue...back when America was great I suppose. lmao.

But youre right, no one in power in DC cares because it's not politically expedient and most Americans live, work and play in suburbia so to them this is a non issue.

I think that might be the biggest point, people living in the suburbs who never see this stuff. It stuns some suburbanites seeing homeless people. My gf's sister came down here a few weeks ago for the 4th and was kindof turned off from walking in a park next to our apt because there were like two people sleeping. It really surprises and scares them. I see them everyday so I guess I see them as humans and not some alien being...I think us not having issues like SF or some other cities helps me see them as humans and not just some menace.

On the flip side, my mom lives in a town in Arkansas of about 60k people. There was a woman asking for money with a sign outside the Walmart and her story went viral on peoples facebooks in town and the lady ended up getting a rent free house for a year donated to her and all types of donations. Her story got on the local news and people took action to help her. They simply aren't used to homeless because they don't see it often.

jtown,man · #48 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mthd

i'm not saying that homeless on the streets and their associated behavior isn't an issue... but this is blown way out of proportion.

my family and i collectively walk about 10-15 miles in SF every day. i might see one example of this kind of thing - a needle, a bunch of rotting food, whatever, in a given day. yes, there are homeless people, mostly mentally ill or addicted, and they need help.

but squalor? third world? absolutely not. anyone who says that has never been to the third world, or in their visits to SF they hang out exclusively on a handful of very bad blocks in the TL, under the freeway, etc.

Were the homeless there aggressive in their panhandling or kept to themselves?

hauntedheadnc · #49 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Two of those links cite the same study and they both seem to say that access is the biggest issue, which I would agree. However, if you have healthcare, we have access to some of the best in the world. If we would just get off the couch and stop driving so much we could do better. I don't deny our obvious issues but I also don't want to derail this thread, so with that I respectfully take your opinion and links but stand by what I said.

Nothing else but the bolded quote matters, and the fact that so many people do not have access is part of the reason that the situation in San Francisco is, apparently, so bad. Then there is the fact that for the most part, however bad the issue of access to general healthcare is in America, access to mental healthcare is worse.

Again, the Cook County Jail is the biggest provider of mental healthcare services in the United States. How is that acceptable? Why on earth would anyone suggest that jails or prisons are an acceptable means of dealing with such a problem?

jtown,man · #50 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

Nothing else but the bolded quote matters, and the fact that so many people do not have access is part of the reason that the situation in San Francisco is, apparently, so bad. Then there is the fact that for the most part, however bad the issue of access to general healthcare is in America, access to mental healthcare is worse.

Again, the Cook County Jail is the biggest provider of mental healthcare services in the United States. How is that acceptable? Why on earth would anyone suggest that jails or prisons are an acceptable means of dealing with such a problem?

In reference to our homeless who are mentally ill, yes, access to healthcare is their biggest issue and they probably will never be able to afford market rate healthcare.

LosAngelesSportsFan · #51 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qubert

I have to be honest here: There is no amount of "affordable housing" that can help someone who defecates in the street. People who have lost their homes due to genuine economic hardship aren't the ones who poop on the sidewalk or shoot up in broad daylight.

yup, precisely. Most of the people on the streets causing the issues are the mentally ill and the crack heads

LosAngelesSportsFan · #52 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor23

San Francisco has always had a gritty side since day 1. From the gold rush era unti today, the city has always had a wild side.

I don't see how SF can deal with homelessness on its own, and building new homes won't help unless they're 100% subsidized. Homeless people have the freedom of movement just like any other US citizens.

Bringing back mental institutions would really help, but only if they were forced to stay there, otherwise it wouldn't work.

Another way is for the police to harass them so much they leave. In Honolulu, HPD has a routine of waking them up every couple of hours, doing searches, taking apart their camping area, and confiscating their items. However, some consider it inhumane, but it has resulted in quite a few guys packing up and leaving or moving to the shelters.

Throwing money at the problem won't work, but knowing America its the route we're going to take.

wait till the freaking ACLU gets a hold of that.. One of the main reasons why its such a mess in LA now is because the ACLU constantly sues the LAPD and the city every time they try to do anything. Its fucking maddening.

LosAngelesSportsFan · #53 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative

There also, more recently, used to be lots of single room occupancy hotels (SROs) in DTLA and DTSF. Development and gentrification have removed most of these places, even in L.A.'s "skid row" and S.F''s "Tenderloin" and SoMa districts. So the homeless are on the streets.

Absolutely false. Barely any SRO's have been removed from downtown LA. They all have long term covenants so were stuck with them, which by the way suck ass. Just look at all the issues the Hayward, Alexandria and Rosslyn cause. You cant just stick sick and addicted people into an apartment and think the problem will go away. These buildings become cesspools of crime, addiction, prostitution and filth.

LosAngelesSportsFan · #54 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes

I love SF and used to go a lot. However, I haven't been there in twenty years. Back then, the homeless situation was out of control. However, the homeless people didn't seem psychotic like some of the loonies strung out on K2 like one sees in NY today.

I assumed that with the economic boom, SF cleaned up its act a lot. I guess not. My question is whether the homeless are in downtown, Union Square (in SF), etc., or just in limited areas. Also, are they harmless or are there seriously mentally ill homeless like one finds in Manhattan?

NY's visible homeless problem is literally nothing compared to SF or LA. You will be blown away in a negative way if you go to SF now

LosAngelesSportsFan · #55 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 4:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxtex

west coast mayors packaged their already steady homeless population and a trend of rising home prices and declared it a "crisis". even portland and seattle got on board. derelicts became emboldened by occupy and the moment mayors temporarily stopped enforcing camping restrictions is when shit went to pot, or sidewalk. perhaps couple this with a possibly very real opiate epidemic and ouila, super hobo!! we dont have normal homelss anymore, we have under 30 super junkies with criminal pasts and the sense they can camp anywhere. fuck that. the truth is, even during the very worst years of the recession, when actual economic calamity would have caused the worst of problems, yearly point in time studies did not change much in many cities. it wasn't until the manufactured "crisis" that the street scene went ballistic. all of the mayors and their social theorists can blame themselves for opening the hobo pandora's box. tah dah.....

amen! Our city leaders dont have any balls to do shit because they are scared to offend. You give these super hobos an inch they take a fucking mile. Add in the "homeless advocate" groups that do anything and everything to make these matters worse and you have what we are dealing with now

hauntedheadnc · #56 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man

In reference to our homeless who are mentally ill, yes, access to healthcare is their biggest issue and they probably will never be able to afford market rate healthcare.

And they will continue to shit in the streets, break into cars, have conversations with aliens at the top of their lungs, and assault people because the voices in their heads tell them to, due to that lack of access. They will also continue to succumb to violence at much higher rates than the general population because of that lack of access, considering that the mentally ill are, statistically, far more likely to be victims of violence rather than perpetrators.

Meanwhile, ever more mentally ill people -- especially veterans -- will continue to swell the homeless population because there is no mechanism in place to provide the mental healthcare and stabilization services that would have prevented their slide into homelessness in the first place.

Which is to say that the problem is bad as it is, and there is nothing in place to fix the problem, or prevent it from getting worse.

Which is to further say that in light of that situation, it's hardly the time to thump one's chest about how fantabulous healthcare is for the rich. I feel rather certain that the Kim family receives excellent healthcare in North Korea, for example, but that has as much worth to the average citizen there as shit on one's shoe. Likewise, to someone who is screaming into the sky before dropping to their knees and pounding their forehead against the curb repeatedly, something I once witnessed, it really doesn't matter if the Kardashians have the best noses money can buy.

Crawford · #57 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

NY's visible homeless problem is literally nothing compared to SF or LA. You will be blown away in a negative way if you go to SF now

I think the weather plays a role. Also, NYC is under an (IMO absurd) 30-year court order to house anyone who shows need and demands it, so every indigent person within city limits has a legal right to city-sponsored shelter.

Basically, if you see someone on an NYC street, they have repeatedly refused city efforts at sheltering them.

Centropolis · #58 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 5:59 PM**

with the spigot of wealth pouring into california, seems like it's time for the bay area to build a regional high speed rail system, properly develop the east bay over the mountains around stations...right now it's being developed like it's dallas, with cul-de-sac neighborhoods. how is this possible in california?

granted, this wont fix the homeless problem, but its a partial housing solve.

twister244 · #59 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 6:11 PM**

Two solutions:

1.) Bring back mental institutions that were done away with 30 years ago (as previously discussed). That's the best case scenario for many of these people. Not saying it's ideal, just the best case.

2.) Don't let these people shit and shoot up on the streets. We have a camping ban in Denver for a reason. We don't want our streets to start looking like what's been described on this thread. It's completely unacceptable to allow anyone to take a crap in public, or openly use illegal drugs. And the movement to normalize this by giving out needles is completely mind blowing to me......

hauntedheadnc · #60 Posted **Aug 10, 2018, 6:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244

Two solutions:

1.) Bring back mental institutions that were done away with 30 years ago (as previously discussed). That's the best case scenario for many of these people. Not saying it's ideal, just the best case.

2.) Don't let these people shit and shoot up on the streets. We have a camping ban in Denver for a reason. We don't want our streets to start looking like what's been described on this thread. It's completely unacceptable to allow anyone to take a crap in public, or openly use illegal drugs. And the movement to normalize this by giving out needles is completely mind blowing to me......

Just a note, but needle exchanges don't exist to normalize anything. They exist to prevent outbreaks of diseases like HIV and hepatitis that can be spread by sharing needles. Scott County, Indiana saw an HIV outbreak in 2015 that was traced to intravenous drug users sharing their needles, and there is currently an HIV outbreak sweeping Lowell and Lawrence, Massachusetts for the very same reason. It's cheaper to provide clean needles now and buy time for someone to decide to quit using drugs than it is to provide HIV care for that person for the next forty years.