Metro Vancouver Bike/Pedestrian Discussion

[IanS]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Motorists travelling on 22nd Street in West Vancouver will be confronted with a 3D image of a little girl chasing a ball in the street starting next Tuesday. The girl will be an optical illusion, but the scenario is very real, according to David Dunne of the BCAA Traffic Safety Foundation.

I can't believe that they're really going to do this on a street. What happens when someone swerves and gets into an accident, trying to avoid "little girl"?

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Wow such detailed plans just a couple weeks after their "consultation". One might almost think it was a foregone conclusion.

Eliminating one of the right hand turn lanes from Smithe onto Hornby, recipe for bad congestion. And I can't wait to see how many people unwittingly get stuck in the right hand lane of Hornby where it becomes a right turn lane onto Georgia. That'll be fun to watch. I'll just turn up the stereo, rev the engine and think of Gregor as I release all those hydrocarbons!

I actually having the a lane that only allows right turns on Hornby onto Georgia. Will actually be better for the flow. The vast majority of vehicles coming up Hornby, either make a left or right turn at Georgia. So it would be good to have a right turn only lane for vehicles.

As for if anyone gets stuck in that lane. Well first time is mistake and they should learn from that. Second time, well they are just plain stupid as they don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Driving a message home with an optical illusion



Rebecca Lindell
Vancouver — From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published on Thursday, Sep. 02, 2010 2:48AM EDT
Last updated on Thursday, Sep. 02, 2010 10:43AM EDT

It’s already on the big screen, but now a 3D image is being used on the streets of West Vancouver in an attempt to jolt reckless drivers into reality.

Motorists travelling on 22nd Street in West Vancouver will be confronted with a 3D image of a little girl chasing a ball in the street starting next Tuesday. The girl will be an optical illusion, but the scenario is very real, according to David Dunne of the BCAA Traffic Safety Foundation.

‘We need to expect the unexpected because anything could happen, whether it is a 3D image on the road ... or whether it’s a live child or a dog running in front of the car, these are all things that we have to be able to control for in a vehicle,” Mr. Dunne said.

The foundation is partnering with Preventable, a safety advocacy group, and the District of West Vancouver to install Canada’s first ever 3D image aimed at driver safety.

The display, which costs $15,000 to run, will be installed in a school zone on 22nd Street, just north of Inglewood Avenue, and very close to École Pauline Johnson Elementary School. It will be in place for one week.

The 3D image will look like an indistinguishable mark from far away, but by the time the driver is within 30 metres, the image of the girl and ball will become clear.

“You’ll see this image start to rise off the pavement and it will look like a little child is crossing the street. As you get closer to the image, the image recedes into the pavement,” Mr. Dunne said.

The back-to-school season was chosen because September and October are the months that see the most child fatalities, Mr. Dunne said. Plus, parents are often the worst offenders, speeding, pulling u-turns and talking on cellphones, he said.

The key to prevention is changing attitudes, according to Mr. Dunne. The image is meant to provide a surprising physical reminder that drivers need to have an attitude of safety and caution.

Traditional safety messaging just does not seem to be getting the job done, according to both Mr. Dunne and the District of West Vancouver.

...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1693547/

I can see so many problems with this approach. And some of been mentioned above.

1) Someone slams on their brakes thus getting rear ended.
2) Someone swerves to miss the girl hitting someone else or worse actually hitting a real little girl who happened to be standing on the side walk.


3) And this is the worst one of all. People get so used to seeing the hologram that they just drive right through it. One day that hologram is actually a real person but the driver doesn't slow down because they think it is a hologram.

I'm all for getting people to slow down and driving defensively. But doing it my scaring them is the wrong approach.

[WarrenC12]

What's wrong with ticketing people doing over 30 km/h in a school zone, really. It's a nasty reminder, generates some revenue, case closed.

[racc]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I can see so many problems with this approach. And some of been mentioned above.

1) Someone slams on their brakes thus getting rear ended.
2) Someone swerves to miss the girl hitting someone else or worse actually hitting a real little girl who happened to be standing on the side walk.


3) And this is the worst one of all. People get so used to seeing the hologram that they just drive right through it. One day that hologram is actually a real person but the driver doesn't slow down because they think it is a hologram.

I'm all for getting people to slow down and driving defensively. But doing it my scaring them is the wrong approach.

It is always easy to imagine all the problems that might happen. How about just trying it out and seeing how it actually works.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What's wrong with ticketing people doing over 30 km/h in a school zone, really. It's a nasty reminder, generates some revenue, case closed.

Oh nothing wrong with that. But we have people who don't seem to like being given a picture of them speeding. When they were speeding.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by racc

It is always easy to imagine all the problems that might happen. How about just trying it out and seeing how it actually works.

It isn't even worth trying when the potential outcome could be deadly.

[racc]

Originally Posted by cabotp

It isn't even worth trying when the potential outcome could be deadly.

Too bad Henry Ford didn't think that way.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by racc

Too bad Henry Ford didn't think that way.

I love how people turn one thing into something else.

If you must know I do support making people more aware and driving more defensively and being prepared for the worst thing that could happen.

What I don't support is using scare tactics while actually driving.

Oh if you must know I don't drive and only cycle/walk/transit. So it isn't as if I'm just another driver on the road who is acting holier than thou.

[racc]

Originally Posted by cabotp

I love how people turn one thing into something else.

If you must know I do support making people more aware and driving more defensively and being prepared for the worst thing that could happen.

What I don't support is using scare tactics while actually driving.

Well, back your concerns. It is easy to imagine every possible way that something like this could cause problems but without trying it, it is impossible to know if anything bad will happen or not. However, what is a real problem that causes actual injuries and deaths is drivers speeding through school zones. If this can be proven to reduce this real problem without causing other problems, then it is worthwhile. But the only way to find out for sure is to try it.

[whatnext]

An excellent editorial in the Courier about Critical Mass:

...Critical Mass organizers say one of their mandates is to make the point the mass of cyclists don't "block" traffic, but instead "are" traffic and demand respect as such.

Which, I guess, is why the Vancouver group's Facebook page is full of photographs of cycling participants stopped in the middle of the Lions Gate Bridge and doing what looks like blocking traffic. In one photo, one of the cyclists can be seen leaning up against his bike enjoying a can of Strongbow cider, a refreshing alcoholic drink manufactured in England.

We also have Strongbow in the fridge at home, but it wouldn't occur to me to stop my car in the middle of a bridge and hold up traffic while I sat and enjoyed a frosty cold one...

..Last summer we were at English Bay one balmy evening when the mass rode by after "not blocking" the Lions Gate Bridge for an hour. An elderly woman with a cane attempted to cross Beach Avenue towards the Sylvia Hotel. Until then, my thoughts on Critical Mass were fairly neutral, but after watching the bad behaviour of dozens of the riders that evening, it became obvious there's nothing honourable or righteous in what they do. They acted like street thugs, ignoring and taunting not only the woman, but also the men who tried to help her cross the street with her cane. Finally, the group of men helping the woman grew and they made a human barricade to shield her from the bike traffic, whose riders made it clear she was nothing more than collateral damage.... (bold mine)

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/travel/Cri...#ixzz0yr6fpy4Z

[IanS]

Originally Posted by whatnext

An excellent editorial in the Courier about Critical Mass:

...Critical Mass organizers say one of their mandates is to make the point the mass of cyclists don't "block" traffic, but instead "are" traffic and demand respect as such.

Which, I guess, is why the Vancouver group's Facebook page is full of photographs of cycling participants stopped in the middle of the Lions Gate Bridge and doing what looks like blocking traffic. In one photo, one of the cyclists can be seen leaning up against his bike enjoying a can of Strongbow cider, a refreshing alcoholic drink manufactured in England.

We also have Strongbow in the fridge at home, but it wouldn't occur to me to stop my car in the middle of a bridge and hold up traffic while I sat and enjoyed a frosty cold one...

..Last summer we were at English Bay one balmy evening when the mass rode by after "not blocking" the Lions Gate Bridge for an hour. An elderly woman with a cane attempted to cross Beach Avenue towards the Sylvia Hotel. Until then, my thoughts on Critical Mass were fairly neutral, but after watching the bad behaviour of dozens of the riders that evening, it became obvious there's nothing honourable or righteous in what they do. They acted like street thugs, ignoring and taunting not only the woman, but also the men who tried to help her cross the street with her cane. Finally, the group of men helping the woman grew and they made a human barricade to shield her from the bike traffic, whose riders made it clear she was nothing more than collateral damage.... (bold mine)

Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/travel/Cri...#ixzz0yr6fpy4Z

I read that article. It's too bad the police don't have the resources or mandate to deal with these thugs.

[WarrenC12]

There's always vigilante justice...

[IanS]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

There's always vigilante justice...

Heh. I assume you're joking, but never a good idea.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by IanS

Heh. I assume you're joking, but never a good idea.

I am, but that's the sort of thing that will happen if the police don't step in, possibly at the request of the City or other groups.

[racc]

A poll covered in the Globe and Mail today shows significant support for the Hornby bike lanes.
Nearly half (48%) of Vancouver voters approve of the Hornby bike lanes while only one third (33%) disapprove. 19% neither approve or disapprove or don't know.

I expect the support will increase even more as the issues are being resolved and the media coverage becomes more positive.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1697585/

[Porfiry]

We were talking a few pages back about how hotels on Hornby could take advantage of the bike lane by promoting it as an amenity.

Anyways, it looks like the Hyatt in Calgary is now doing this exact thing, providing guests a bike and pathway map:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=184823

If it works in Calgary...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Porfiry

We were talking a few pages back about how hotels on Hornby could take advantage of the bike lane by promoting it as an amenity.

Nah. Too many businesses spending all their time complaining about their glasses being half empty instead of taking advantage of the fact that they're actually half full...

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by racc

A poll covered in the Globe and Mail today shows significant support for the Hornby bike lanes.
Nearly half (48%) of Vancouver voters approve of the Hornby bike lanes while only one third (33%) disapprove. 19% neither approve or disapprove or don't know.

I expect the support will increase even more as the issues are being resolved and the media coverage becomes more positive.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1697585/

With 29% who strongly approve and 19% who somewhat approve I probably wouldn't call that "significant support". If you take away the "don't know" people from the survey then it's basically 60% for and 40% against.

[racc]

Originally Posted by Smooth

With 29% who strongly approve and 19% who somewhat approve I probably wouldn't call that "significant support". If you take away the "don't know" people from the survey then it's basically 60% for and 40% against.

What would you call it then. In an election, that would be a landslide. Our governing party in Canada only 37.63% of the vote in the last election.