SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2

[Streamliner]

Regarding new housing, I just noticed while driving on the 8 that a large development has gone up in Grantville, (A specific plan area east of Qualcomm Stadium that opened a lot of area for new housing/dense development). The development is called Hanover Mission Gorge. They're all luxury apartments (of course), but it's still good to see these Community Plan and Specific Plan areas quickly allowing more development following their updates.

Originally Posted by mello

Do you guys think the market can keep absorbing more and more units at these high prices? Along with the Riverwalk mega development you also will have the Stone Creek project in between Miramar Rd and Mira Mesa that is 2000 units, then the huge 12,000 unit mega project just east of it.

Are you referring to the 3Roots development? It's to the west, and is only around 1,800 residential units. I haven't heard much from the Stone Creek project in awhile. Seems to be moving slowly.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by SDfan

Sorry, but I'm going to have to politely smack this down.

We need to achieve 50% alternate ride share to meet our legally binding Climate Action Plan goals. Blocking new transit and building more roads is not how we reach our CAP and reduce GHG emissions (let alone provide housing that's sustainable and more enviro-friendly). And, no, EV is not a realistic alternative due to cost and adoption trends. We need to get people out of their cars and onto trolleys, in bike lanes, and on sidewalks.

MTS is a notoriously anti-transit organization, and their actions at Riverwalk exemplify this reality completely.

Hopefully smarter minds will turn MTS around. CM Georgette Gomez, the new-ish MTS Board Chair is working hard to change the culture there, and an MTS bond ballot initiative is coming in 2020 to help build more trolley lines and provide more frequent service.

As for your points on slower trolleys, and traffic on Friars, providing an accessible and reliable transit option for 4k+ new homes (8-10k residents) at Riverwalk is leagues better than a flyover causeway that will end up being congested anyways by induced demand. Road and highway expansion in Southern California is a proven model of failure. We need real alternatives now.

While I understand and to a certain extent agree with all your points, given the current state of SD's transit system building out a dense residential area without some level of road improvements may be counterproductive.

Lets just imagine for a moment we build this housing out without the street improvements. I'd give it around 3-5 years or so if we really hit the ground running today. So, it's 2025 and we have a few thousand more people living along Friars Rd, who are going to need commute to work. Say someone living there gets a job in Sorrento Valley, not an odd idea considering it's the largest employment center in SD. Well, the blue line will still be on the other side of the 805 in 2025. So for someone to commute from this new development to the largest employment center in SD, when it opens in 2025, the fastest way to get there would probably be to take the green line in the opposite direction to old town, catch the coaster to the SV station, then take the free shuttle to their workplace. At best MTS could set up a BRT or Shuttle line from UTC to SV, but no matter how you space it they'll be at least three transfers and likely a 30min+ commute. The more likely answer is that a they're going to commute via car and be stuck in traffic trying to get on the 15.

It's not that I'm against transit oriented development, SD just doesn't have the infrastructure for completely transit reliant development yet and won't for years. Even if the city approved the development in this form, it wouldn't pass muster in the EIR due to traffic impacts.

[Nv_2897]

Originally Posted by mello

I think the issue is of course there is huge demand for housing here but can people afford the price points developers need to make their projects pencil. If you built 2000 decent quality 2 bed 2 bath apartments at Civita and they were only $1800 dollars per month they would go like hot cakes, but Sudberry will need 2800 to 3200 a month to make it work...

Do you guys think the market can keep absorbing more and more units at these high prices? Along with the Riverwalk mega development you also will have the Stone Creek project in between Miramar Rd and Mira Mesa that is 2000 units, then the huge 12,000 unit mega project just east of it.

I would say for a huge chunk of the county's population there is about a 30 to 40% disconnect in the price they can afford to pay for these newly built housing units and what the developers want to charge to make their projects pencil out.


SDFAN: and an MTS bond ballot initiative is coming in 2020 to help build more trolley lines and provide more frequent service. Haven;'t heard about this kindly share more details.

I agree we need to create more affordable housing options

[HurricaneHugo]

City Is Poised to Back Down on Plan to Increase Height Limit – Again

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topi...t-limit-again/

[Streamliner]

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo

City Is Poised to Back Down on Plan to Increase Height Limit – Again

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topi...t-limit-again/

Ugh, this makes me so angry. The people in this neighborhood are among the worst NIMBYs. Does anyone remember the story where they heckled a young woman at a town hall?

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/city...e-us-in-peace/

“Live somewhere else!” “Come back when you have a mortgage!” “That’s not reality!”

Those were some of the things people shouted at 23-year-old Clairemont resident Gina Schumacher during a Wednesday town hall meeting after she said she liked the city’s plan to allow more homes and taller buildings around a planned trolley station in the neighborhood.

There were probably other insults, but it was hard to hear over the chorus of boos.

It was clear before Schumacher even grabbed the mic that the 300-plus crowd wasn’t on her side. Residents who couldn’t fit in the packed Bay Park Elementary auditorium peered in through windows. Signs saying “Bay Park isn’t Manahattan” and “No to Towers of Terror” dotted the seating area.

“Right now, I feel like this room doesn’t want me to live here,” said Schumacher, who said she lives with her parents and rides a bike because she can’t otherwise afford to live in the neighborhood.

By the time she said that the plan was meant to get people to drive less, to ride bikes and transit and pass one another on the streets, “instead of getting in our cars and going to go to work and be very anti-social people,” the crowd had heard enough.

It erupted in laughter, followed by the cascading boos that chased her from the stage and followed her out of the room.

[spoonman]

Does this affect the Morena/Linda Vista station area, or just farther north by Clairemont Dr/Balboa Ave? Morena/Linda Vista station area is ripe for taller buildings as it is more urban/industrial right near an existing transit stop in a semi-walkable area.

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by spoonman

Does this affect the Morena/Linda Vista station area, or just farther north by Clairemont Dr/Balboa Ave? Morena/Linda Vista station area is ripe for taller buildings as it is more urban/industrial right near an existing transit stop in a semi-walkable area.

The former unfortunately. The Clairemont Dr was the "first time this happened" the title implies.

[Nv_2897]

Does anyone have any development updates?

[Will O' Wisp]

Found a post on reddit with the most perfect aerial shot of Manchester Pacific Gateway Progress


Courtesy Matt_Skywalker on reddit

I was out there myself the other day, I'd estimate that the entire site has been dug up by 5-6 feet and those deeper pits are closer to 30'. Underground parking perhaps?

[HurricaneHugo]

How does a plane fly that pattern?

With Lindbergh and North Island there...

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo

How does a plane fly that pattern?

With Lindbergh and North Island there...

It's a very popular VFR transition through the Lindbergh/North Island class B airspace called the bay tour.

[Nv_2897]

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp

Found a post on reddit with the most perfect aerial shot of Manchester Pacific Gateway Progress


Courtesy Matt_Skywalker on reddit

I was out there myself the other day, I'd estimate that the entire site has been dug up by 5-6 feet and those deeper pits are closer to 30'. Underground parking perhaps?

^WOW the Manchester Pacific Gateway is huge! I wonder why they are taking so long to demolish the first building

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by Nv_2897

^WOW the Manchester Pacific Gateway is huge! I wonder why they are taking so long to demolish the first building

The Navy Broadway complex is still an active military installation and the overall HQ for all navy bases in the Southwest. Part of the deal the USN made with Papa Doug was that before demolishing the current building they're in he'd build them a brand new high rise office on the lot. Looks like most of the excavations are in the area slated for that, I'm guessing it will be the first part of the projected to be completed.

[Alan in Clairemont]

Will O' Wisp....That's correct....The first building to be finished will (supposedly) be the new Navy Headquarters building. They will then demo the old building and build a park in it's place. There are something like 50,000 truck loads of soil supposedly being excavated and they're building the whole project at once...I was down there a few weeks ago and the scale is impressive.

[eburress]

Originally Posted by Streamliner

Ugh, this makes me so angry. The people in this neighborhood are among the worst NIMBYs. Does anyone remember the story where they heckled a young woman at a town hall?

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/city...e-us-in-peace/

THIS right here is what I can't stand about so many of the people in SD. Bay Park is nice enough...it's fine...but as a random hodgepodge of mostly unattractive uses/structures, it's not like a few taller buildings are going to ruin some picturesque aesthetic. These people need to get over themselves.

[Streamliner]

Went downtown the other day and got to fulfill a childhood dream to go up into One America Plaza. Got this photo from one of the upper floors. Great view of Savina under construction. I would post a larger version but it's too big.



Larger version here:
https://i.imgur.com/ObbLFoA.jpg

[JerellO]

Anyone know why they destroyed the facade of that one movie theater on 6th and G street?? I loved the architecture and now it’s this modern white looking thingy. Sad.

[case_architect]

Originally Posted by Will O' Wisp

Found a post on reddit with the most perfect aerial shot of Manchester Pacific Gateway Progress


Courtesy Matt_Skywalker on reddit

I was out there myself the other day, I'd estimate that the entire site has been dug up by 5-6 feet and those deeper pits are closer to 30'. Underground parking perhaps?

When the hell are they gonna get rid of Park Row and Harborview Apts across from the Manchester site? Such a waste of space.

[Nv_2897]

Originally Posted by case_architect

When the hell are they gonna get rid of Park Row and Harborview Apts across from the Manchester site? Such a waste of space.

^ Ive been thinking the same thing!

[Will O' Wisp]

Originally Posted by case_architect

When the hell are they gonna get rid of Park Row and Harborview Apts across from the Manchester site? Such a waste of space.

We can only dream....

Park Row is the single most NIMBY section of downtown. Built in the early 80s as one of the first postwar residential developments in downtown, the complex is laid out like a fortress with only a few gated entrances. It deliberately breaks up the street grid too, all to keep out the "riff-raff" of downtown. The average age of the condo owners is somewhere in the 70s as well, so they've got a lot of free time to sue. And sue they do, over the Midway and the Embarcado and the MPG (and I'm sure they'll sue over the Seaport Village redo too).

Amongst other things, they managed to have both the southern part of Park Row and the Harborview Apts height limited as part of the Marina District PDO. The Harborview Apts site could be raised to the same height as the embassy suits next door, but that'd just barely peak over the MPG and wouldn't effect the skyline much. The Park Row site itself is even more height limited, can't build anything over 5 stories. My guess is that the area is going to be mostly skipped over in this cycle. One wonders how much longer they'll be able to hold out though, at this point they're literally surrounded by skyscrapers and all this commercial/retail development will mean they'll be swamped with tourists trying to find a way between the waterfront and the gaslamp.

But, the office dept site and the substation yard north of F St both fall outside the PDO and aren't height limited in any special way. With all the development going on in the area I suspect someone is going to make a go on those lots pretty soon, NIMBYs be damned.