HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #61  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 4:45 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dariusb View Post
I wonder if Fort Worth was ever upset with Dallas because they lost their airport?
Isn't DFW basically where FW's airport was? If anything Dallas should be mad since Love Field is so much closer to the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #62  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 4:58 AM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Isn't DFW basically where FW's airport was? If anything Dallas should be mad since Love Field is so much closer to the city.
Now that the Wright Amendment has been lifted, Southwest Airlines has turned Love Field into a mini-DFW Airport. Fort Worth benefits a lot from DFW Airport as it's center limits are at the south airport entrance. Right now there's a large mixed-use development going up there called Centreport. Not to mention American Airlines' HQ expansion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #63  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 5:04 AM
N90 N90 is offline
Voice of the Modern World
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIGSEGV View Post
Isn't DFW basically where FW's airport was? If anything Dallas should be mad since Love Field is so much closer to the city.
No, Ft. Worth still has its airport. Meacham Intl airport is going back to commercial again in 2 years after upgrades are made.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...1.html%3famp=y

DFW will have its 3rd airport
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #64  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 5:17 AM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by N90 View Post
No, Ft. Worth still has its airport. Meacham Intl airport is going back to commercial again in 2 years after upgrades are made.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...1.html%3famp=y

DFW will have its 3rd airport
That's exciting news! It'll be interesting to see if one of these low cost carriers makes it a hub.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #65  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 5:17 AM
SIGSEGV's Avatar
SIGSEGV SIGSEGV is offline
He/his/him. >~<, QED!
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Loop, Chicago
Posts: 5,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by N90 View Post
No, Ft. Worth still has its airport. Meacham Intl airport is going back to commercial again in 2 years after upgrades are made.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbc...1.html%3famp=y

DFW will have its 3rd airport
It was not DFW that originally killed Meacham.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greate...tional_Airport
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #66  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 6:53 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC2ATX View Post
This is an extremely interesting topic to me actually, and I have a bit of a theory about it.

It would seem to me that San Antonio has always gotten the short straw because of competition within Texas. Before 2004 (when the Frost Tower in Austin was completed), I would imagine SA lost a lot of new residents and new corporate presences to Dallas and Houston. Dallas had the advantage of DFW from an early time, and Houston cultivated itself as a center of the energy and shipping industries from within, and the two became the boomtown success stories of the latter half of the 20th Century.

The dark horse of Austin is a bit more dubious, but as a millennial, I may be able to shed some light. Austin simply has had the exact right recipe of characteristics within the right era. Millennials are first and foremost driven my experiential motivators, and Austin offers an embarrassment of riches in the form of rich experiences; music festivals, food trucks, bars and clubs of every stripe, magnificent natural areas, dynamic street art, bats, kayaks, the list goes on. SA champions can argue its many offerings, but it's not the same essential DNA that Austin offers - its "weird" quality.

You can also attribute to this the success in wooing major tech companies to flock to Austin. It might seem like a chicken-or-egg conundrum, but outside of Silicon Valley, tech follows the creative youth first, and their presence then draws more creative young people and also more tech companies, since they like to cluster. The growth in the skyline can largely be credited to this sudden influx of wealth.

This is spot on. And it describes why downtown Austin is booming and San Antonio is not. It’s a matter of demand. Young tech demands urban environments. Moms don’t wanna go downtown if they don’t have to.

Last thought is on natural assets. San Antonio will never have the waterfront, parks or springs in the central core that Austin does. Those assets enable lifestyle desired by young tech not available in other Texas cities.

In summary - downtown is booming due to demand from a few specific demographics. That demand does not exist in SA at the moment.

Last edited by ATXboom; Aug 1, 2018 at 8:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #67  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 8:45 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is offline
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,783
Let's face it, UT is why Austin is the way it is. Austin has had the waterfront, parks or springs forever but only recently did Austin become the high tech boom-town it is today. UT has emerged as a prestigious university that spawned innovation and a high tech workforce.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #68  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 9:09 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Let's face it, UT is why Austin is the way it is. Austin has had the waterfront, parks or springs forever but only recently did Austin become the high tech boom-town it is today. UT has emerged as a prestigious university that spawned innovation and a high tech workforce.
Not fully disagreeing but I could argue UT has always been there too I do know the big tech companies (google/FB/Apple, etc) come here because its where tech talent wants to be... it is a national draw. They are def not here exclusively for UT grads (which only address entry level positions at best). FWIW - I work for these companies so I have some insight. The companies simply follow where the talent wants to be.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #69  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 9:30 PM
Trae's Avatar
Trae Trae is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles and Houston
Posts: 4,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXboom View Post
Not fully disagreeing but I could argue UT has always been there too I do know the big tech companies (google/FB/Apple, etc) come here because its where tech talent wants to be... it is a national draw. They are def not here exclusively for UT grads (which only address entry level positions at best). FWIW - I work for these companies so I have some insight. The companies simply follow where the talent wants to be.
And would the talent be in Austin if it wasn't for UT? If UT was instead situated along the Riverwalk or if it was in the Downtown of the original capital of Texas (Houston), would Austin be where the talent wants to live? I don't think so. If you look at the flagship universities of various states that also happen to be in a major city, tech companies usually have a bunch of jobs (hundreds, if not thousands) there. Austin, Tempe, Madison, Atlanta, Raleigh, Twin Cities, Berkeley/UCLA (it's safe to say there's two flagships in the UC system), Albuquerque, Columbus, Denver, etc. I think there's a strong correlation behind that. Universities in larger cities have an easier time holding that talent once they graduate. Unlike your average small college town. This makes them very attractive for companies.

With that said, Austin has been a fast growing metro area since the 1960s at least. It grew anywhere between 2.5% to over 6% annually back then. It only dipped below 2% annual growth during the oil bust years in the late 80s when more of the state was tied to energy but has continued at a high clip since. So fast growth isn't a new thing for the city. Most of the newcomers come from the Houston and DFW metro areas, followed by California. Harris County (Houston) is actually the #1 source of new domestic migrants to Austin.

By the way, I just had a friend out here in CA accept a move to Austin working for Google. He makes over 100k and gets to keep his salary. Will live like a king and have native locals turn their nose up him as he is yet another transplant that will contribute to the rise in prices. Has Austin city council discussed raising the minimum wage in the city?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #70  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 9:32 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is offline
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATXboom View Post
Not fully disagreeing but I could argue UT has always been there too I do know the big tech companies (google/FB/Apple, etc) come here because its where tech talent wants to be... it is a national draw. They are def not here exclusively for UT grads (which only address entry level positions at best). FWIW - I work for these companies so I have some insight. The companies simply follow where the talent wants to be.
Yes, UT has been around a while but I don't think it was the caliber it is today. Its status as a "Public Ivy", innovative and highly competitive is a fairly recent phenomenon. A lot of people that went to UT from other cities tend to stay there. I think that fostered the talent pool and companies saw that and moved in. Now there's enough concentration of tech there that there is momentum. With or without UT.

I have a friend there who just got a job with Google but first has to work in Mountain View but plans on going back to ATX. She interviewed with all the major tech companies and jobs were all based locally.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #71  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 10:13 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
And would the talent be in Austin if it wasn't for UT? If UT was instead situated along the Riverwalk or if it was in the Downtown of the original capital of Texas (Houston), would Austin be where the talent wants to live? I don't think so. If you look at the flagship universities of various states that also happen to be in a major city, tech companies usually have a bunch of jobs (hundreds, if not thousands) there. Austin, Tempe, Madison, Atlanta, Raleigh, Twin Cities, Berkeley/UCLA (it's safe to say there's two flagships in the UC system), Albuquerque, Columbus, Denver, etc. I think there's a strong correlation behind that. Universities in larger cities have an easier time holding that talent once they graduate. Unlike your average small college town. This makes them very attractive for companies.

With that said, Austin has been a fast growing metro area since the 1960s at least. It grew anywhere between 2.5% to over 6% annually back then. It only dipped below 2% annual growth during the oil bust years in the late 80s when more of the state was tied to energy but has continued at a high clip since. So fast growth isn't a new thing for the city. Most of the newcomers come from the Houston and DFW metro areas, followed by California. Harris County (Houston) is actually the #1 source of new domestic migrants to Austin.

By the way, I just had a friend out here in CA accept a move to Austin working for Google. He makes over 100k and gets to keep his salary. Will live like a king and have native locals turn their nose up him as he is yet another transplant that will contribute to the rise in prices. Has Austin city council discussed raising the minimum wage in the city?
I am not arguing about UT as a growth driver. The real question, as I understand it in this thread, is about why Austin's downtown is booming vs SA's. I don't believe UT is a catalyst for massive downtown expansion... companies could establish more easily in the burbs. Event marketing - SXSW, ACL Fest, US Grand Prix, etc have greatly induced demand from demographics interested in an urban environment.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #72  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 10:14 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Let's face it, UT is why Austin is the way it is. Austin has had the waterfront, parks or springs forever but only recently did Austin become the high tech boom-town it is today. UT has emerged as a prestigious university that spawned innovation and a high tech workforce.
In addition to UT isn't also the impact that Dell had on Austin, especially in the 80s? I remember reading about the Austin metro just crossing a million in population and the writer attributing much of it to the Dell boom. I recall reading Dell employed 20K workers in Austin and its stock price had increased 85 fold in the 1980s, minting hundreds of millionaires in Austin. Interestingly, Houston had Compaq but of course, Houston was much bigger than Austin and was undergoing an economic bust in the 80s so the Compaq impact on Houston was not as great as Dell on Austin.

Of another interesting note, I guess San Antonio may have thought it was getting into the 'bigger leagues' with the other TX cities when it snagged the HQ of SBC Telecom, which became present AT&T. Unfortunately for San Antonio, AT&T then relocated to Dallas a few years later. I am sure that was a big ego deflator for San Antonio business leaders. I read that business leaders had been warning that AT&T was at risk of relocating because the San Antonio airport did not have a wide range of direct flights to major cities.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #73  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 10:23 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,819
The Austin tech trail / history looks kinda like this:

UT engineering > 70s - Austin selected for International Sematech > 70s/80s - US semiconductor industry masses in Austin > Early 90's Dell takes off and a host of related suppliers locate in Austin > Late 90's / 00's annual events like SXSW, ACL Fest and F1 bring in savvy tech folks from around the world driving many to relocate or want to relocate to Austin for the lifestyle they experienced at these events > 10's big tech companies follow the talent and start building big in Austin. I'd also add that Austin has the best start-up ecosystem in the state (e.g. start-up funding, # of startup accelerators, etc).

It wasn't until 2007 or so that downtown development really took off... IMO this was driven by the types of people being drawn to Austin via events and the work of former Mayors Will Wynn and Kirk Watson who built a vision for dense 24 hour "digital" downtown in the late 90's and early 00's. In absence of these 2 dynamics, downtown Austin would not have exploded like it has... the burbs would be holding the majority of these employees and residents.

My 2 cents FWIW...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #74  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2018, 11:47 PM
ATXboom ATXboom is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,819
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
In addition to UT isn't also the impact that Dell had on Austin, especially in the 80s? I remember reading about the Austin metro just crossing a million in population and the writer attributing much of it to the Dell boom. I recall reading Dell employed 20K workers in Austin and its stock price had increased 85 fold in the 1980s, minting hundreds of millionaires in Austin. Interestingly, Houston had Compaq but of course, Houston was much bigger than Austin and was undergoing an economic bust in the 80s so the Compaq impact on Houston was not as great as Dell on Austin.

Of another interesting note, I guess San Antonio may have thought it was getting into the 'bigger leagues' with the other TX cities when it snagged the HQ of SBC Telecom, which became present AT&T. Unfortunately for San Antonio, AT&T then relocated to Dallas a few years later. I am sure that was a big ego deflator for San Antonio business leaders. I read that business leaders had been warning that AT&T was at risk of relocating because the San Antonio airport did not have a wide range of direct flights to major cities.
The airport is a major issue as both cities become larger. Austin has significant additional capacity potential while SA does not. It will cause certain businesses to prefer Austin over SA (when considering relocation, etc) simply for connectivity purposes. While the airports are growth enablers/drivers, they likely only impact downtown development if relocations involve businesses who's key employees prefer urban environments.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #75  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 2:56 AM
AviationGuy AviationGuy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 5,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
And would the talent be in Austin if it wasn't for UT? If UT was instead situated along the Riverwalk or if it was in the Downtown of the original capital of Texas (Houston), would Austin be where the talent wants to live? I don't think so. If you look at the flagship universities of various states that also happen to be in a major city, tech companies usually have a bunch of jobs (hundreds, if not thousands) there. Austin, Tempe, Madison, Atlanta, Raleigh, Twin Cities, Berkeley/UCLA (it's safe to say there's two flagships in the UC system), Albuquerque, Columbus, Denver, etc. I think there's a strong correlation behind that. Universities in larger cities have an easier time holding that talent once they graduate. Unlike your average small college town. This makes them very attractive for companies.

With that said, Austin has been a fast growing metro area since the 1960s at least. It grew anywhere between 2.5% to over 6% annually back then. It only dipped below 2% annual growth during the oil bust years in the late 80s when more of the state was tied to energy but has continued at a high clip since. So fast growth isn't a new thing for the city. Most of the newcomers come from the Houston and DFW metro areas, followed by California. Harris County (Houston) is actually the #1 source of new domestic migrants to Austin.

By the way, I just had a friend out here in CA accept a move to Austin working for Google. He makes over 100k and gets to keep his salary. Will live like a king and have native locals turn their nose up him as he is yet another transplant that will contribute to the rise in prices. Has Austin city council discussed raising the minimum wage in the city?
However, those who are already sitting on properties who values are skyrocketing aren't turning up our noses at them (at least those who can afford to pay the property taxes). A lot of people are getting left out, though. That includes people who can qualify only for $300K dumps, or can't pay property taxes, or who can't afford a decent apartment any more. It doesn't seem right, but no solution seems to be in sight as long as the city is in high demand. Emotions have been running high in this city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #76  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 9:11 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston/Galveston
Posts: 1,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Let's face it, UT is why Austin is the way it is. Austin has had the waterfront, parks or springs forever but only recently did Austin become the high tech boom-town it is today. UT has emerged as a prestigious university that spawned innovation and a high tech workforce.
The state government hurts nothing either. Add it all up and you get Austin or Columbus, to name a couple.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #77  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 9:28 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Houston/Galveston
Posts: 1,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae View Post
And would the talent be in Austin if it wasn't for UT? If UT was instead situated along the Riverwalk or if it was in the Downtown of the original capital of Texas (Houston), would Austin be where the talent wants to live? I don't think so. If you look at the flagship universities of various states that also happen to be in a major city, tech companies usually have a bunch of jobs (hundreds, if not thousands) there. Austin, Tempe, Madison, Atlanta, Raleigh, Twin Cities, Berkeley/UCLA (it's safe to say there's two flagships in the UC system), Albuquerque, Columbus, Denver, etc. I think there's a strong correlation behind that. Universities in larger cities have an easier time holding that talent once they graduate. Unlike your average small college town. This makes them very attractive for companies.

With that said, Austin has been a fast growing metro area since the 1960s at least. It grew anywhere between 2.5% to over 6% annually back then. It only dipped below 2% annual growth during the oil bust years in the late 80s when more of the state was tied to energy but has continued at a high clip since. So fast growth isn't a new thing for the city. Most of the newcomers come from the Houston and DFW metro areas, followed by California. Harris County (Houston) is actually the #1 source of new domestic migrants to Austin.

By the way, I just had a friend out here in CA accept a move to Austin working for Google. He makes over 100k and gets to keep his salary. Will live like a king and have native locals turn their nose up him as he is yet another transplant that will contribute to the rise in prices. Has Austin city council discussed raising the minimum wage in the city?
What state flagship (or major public university at all) is in Denver? And Boulder is not Denver nor even in the same MSA.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #78  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 12:17 PM
cannedairspray cannedairspray is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,210
I think you could probably guess. Boulder to Denver is a very short drive, especially by West standards.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #79  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 3:25 PM
JAYNYC JAYNYC is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 914
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Of another interesting note, I guess San Antonio may have thought it was getting into the 'bigger leagues' with the other TX cities when it snagged the HQ of SBC Telecom, which became present AT&T. Unfortunately for San Antonio, AT&T then relocated to Dallas a few years later.
SBC/AT&T's relocation to Dallas was definitely a major blow to San Antonio's corporate image.

On a related note, I've often wondered why none of the major companies (SBC/AT&T, Clear Channel, Valero, Frost, etc.) that have been headquartered in San Antonio never sought to build a downtown tower, and instead opted for the "campus" approach (ugh). Even OKC was blessed with a tower from Chesapeake Energy; as odd as it may look rising solo above the flat and barren OKC terrain, at least it's something.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #80  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2018, 3:30 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is offline
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Houston/ SF Bay Area
Posts: 37,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
SBC/AT&T's relocation to Dallas was definitely a major blow to San Antonio's corporate image.

On a related note, I've often wondered why none of the major Fortune 500 companies (SBC/AT&T, Clear Channel, Valero, etc.) that have been headquartered in San Antonio never sought to build a downtown tower, and instead opted for the "campus" approach (ugh). Even OKC was blessed with a tower from Chesapeake Energy; as odd as it may look rising solo above the flat and barren OKC terrain, at least it's something.
There just isn't a demand for them. Even here in Houston and Dallas, the demand for towers has waned in favor of office parks and shorter suburban office building. I interviewed with USAA in San Antonio and their HQ is absolutely massive but only a few floors high.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:15 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.