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View Poll Results: Should Portage and Main be open for pedestrian traffic?
Yes 113 92.62%
No 9 7.38%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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  #261  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 AM
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GlassCity GlassCity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
Ottawa has the 417 running right through the city.
Not downtown though.

And even if you want to count that, that's one city out of my several examples. Point is, the Portage and Main expressway intersection strategy is not the better other possible option. It's an unfortunate product of history. And while I dearly want it open to pedestrians, the fact that such a great number of drivers feel threatened by this move to me is partially emblematic of the problems in Winnipeg's street network.
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  #262  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 6:38 AM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
Ottawa has the 417 running right through the city.
Not Downtown Ottawa.


Oops that has already been stated.

Last edited by Jets4Life; Sep 17, 2018 at 11:58 PM.
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  #263  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 2:22 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Not downtown though.

And even if you want to count that, that's one city out of my several examples. Point is, the Portage and Main expressway intersection strategy is not the better other possible option. It's an unfortunate product of history. And while I dearly want it open to pedestrians, the fact that such a great number of drivers feel threatened by this move to me is partially emblematic of the problems in Winnipeg's street network.
I do count it because it's a freeway that runs west east in Ottawa and people use it to travel at 100K or so to get across the city and to various points in between. It's in the middle of the city, about 8 blocks from Parliament hill. It is a freeway in Ottawa.
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  #264  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ando View Post
I do count it because it's a freeway that runs west east in Ottawa and people use it to travel at 100K or so to get across the city and to various points in between. It's in the middle of the city, about 8 blocks from Parliament hill. It is a freeway in Ottawa.
The 417 is only slightly closer to downtown than Lagimodiere is.

Realistically that should be upgraded to full freeway status and maybe improve access from the western approaches. The major urban north/south connections should be kenaston and lagimodiere to avoid the need to use main but we still haven't gotten our inner ring road act together. In a perfect world we would have full limited access perimeter and inner rings, as well as a couple high speed routes that are limited access until they almost reach the core then they could convert to more average thoroughfares.

Like I've said before, if we implemented traffic calming measures on main and got lagimodiere and kenaston up to passable standards we could easily solve most of the "Portage and Main freeway problem"
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  #265  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM
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Totally agree the reason Main is the way it is is due to the inadequate/non-existent inner ring road.
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  #266  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 7:01 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzg View Post
Totally agree the reason Main is the way it is is due to the inadequate/non-existent inner ring road.
Not the lack of a proper ring road but the general lack of a north/south route in the east of the city. Between Lagimodiere and Main there is only really Archibald as an option, and that does not link to many hubs of business or retail.

Comparing with the west side is a different story. Between Main and the western side of the ring road, Kenaston*: you have Donald, Osborne, and Sherbrooke/Academy/Stafford. All these options are probably have greater vehicle capacity than Archibald and most of them have multiple destinations along it, giving people a reason to take those routes rather than clog Kenaston or Main.

The lack of alternative options for Main street in the East of the city and minimal reasons to take Archibald rather than Main or Lagimodiere is what leads to Main being much more critical of a route than it really needs to be.

*currently it is part of the ring road as we know it, I know the plan for the proper ring road is Moray thru charleswood to Bishop in the future.
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  #267  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, Ottawa don't have freeways downtown either.
Portage doesn't technically run "through" downtown either nor is it a freeway.

If you need to get through Winnipeg via HWY1 because you are driving from Vancouver to Toronto you take the south perimeter.

Portage Avenue is the equivalent of...

- 4/5th Ave S in Calgary
- Jasper Ave in Edmonton
- Victoria Ave in Regina
- 22nd St in Saskatoon
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  #268  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2018, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimusREIM View Post
The 417 is only slightly closer to downtown than Lagimodiere is.

Realistically that should be upgraded to full freeway status and maybe improve access from the western approaches. The major urban north/south connections should be kenaston and lagimodiere to avoid the need to use main but we still haven't gotten our inner ring road act together. In a perfect world we would have full limited access perimeter and inner rings, as well as a couple high speed routes that are limited access until they almost reach the core then they could convert to more average thoroughfares.

Like I've said before, if we implemented traffic calming measures on main and got lagimodiere and kenaston up to passable standards we could easily solve most of the "Portage and Main freeway problem"
The 417 runs along the southern edge of downtown Ottawa, about a mile from Parliament Hill. Lagimodiere is about 3 miles from Portage and Main at it's closest point (and there's not a straight-line route between the two). The equivalent in Winnipeg would be like if Sherbrook/Maryland was a North-South freeway.
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  #269  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2018, 12:19 AM
Jets4Life Jets4Life is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0twired View Post
Portage doesn't technically run "through" downtown either nor is it a freeway.

If you need to get through Winnipeg via HWY1 because you are driving from Vancouver to Toronto you take the south perimeter.

Portage Avenue is the equivalent of...

- 4/5th Ave S in Calgary
- Jasper Ave in Edmonton
- Victoria Ave in Regina
- 22nd St in Saskatoon
I respectfully disagree. Jasper has much less traffic, as it only runs through Downtown Edmonton, and the immediate vicinity. Ditto with 4th/5th Ave SW in Calgary. With Portage, you have many vehicles that commute for distant suburbs, even Headingley.

I would compare Portage to MacLeod Trail in Calgary.
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  #270  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2018, 1:53 AM
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104th ave in Edmonton handles the same amount of traffic as Portage Ave.

4th and 5th in Calgary have similar traffic counts on the east side of downtown but it tails off.
9th ave through downtown has the same traffic counts as Portage.

McLeod has about 50% more traffic in suburbia than Portage does. 30% less than Portage in downtown.

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 18, 2018 at 2:05 AM.
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  #271  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 3:12 AM
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Set the traffic lights

The City should have just set all the lights at Portage and Main as if there was pedestrian traffic there already. I don't think anyone driving would really even notice or say anything at all!

That way the city could say there is no impact at all as the impact would have been digested already previously with no one even noticing!

It's all in the way a story is told...
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  #272  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 3:23 AM
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Rosanne Hill Blaisdell, Managing Director for Harvard Buildings Inc., the owners of 201 Portage Ave. shares why reopening Portage & Main to pedestrians will attract new business investment and bring life to the heart of our city.
Video Link
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  #273  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
The City should have just set all the lights at Portage and Main as if there was pedestrian traffic there already. I don't think anyone driving would really even notice or say anything at all!

That way the city could say there is no impact at all as the impact would have been digested already previously with no one even noticing!

It's all in the way a story is told...
Exactly. I have a friend that works in the signals office, I'll try to infiltrate.
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  #274  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 1:33 PM
cllew cllew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labroco View Post
The City should have just set all the lights at Portage and Main as if there was pedestrian traffic there already. I don't think anyone driving would really even notice or say anything at all!

That way the city could say there is no impact at all as the impact would have been digested already previously with no one even noticing!

It's all in the way a story is told...
They would also have to adjust most of the timings for signals in the area as the traffic flow is also interconnected through those intersections
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  #275  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 1:37 PM
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Bowman bungled this thing so poorly. When the traffic report was done and he refused to release it, that really riled the no side up. The assumption was that it would cause chaos. The reality is that the traffic impact is minor. I don't quite understand why he was so hesitant on making it public. If when it was done he immediately released it, citing the 30 second average delay in the morning, and 54 second average delay in the afternoon, it would have immediately let the air out of the balloon and we wouldn't be voting on this issue.
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  #276  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 8:59 PM
Ando Ando is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wpg_Guy View Post
Rosanne Hill Blaisdell, Managing Director for Harvard Buildings Inc., the owners of 201 Portage Ave. shares why reopening Portage & Main to pedestrians will attract new business investment and bring life to the heart of our city.
Video Link
Yes, Richardson's came out and reiterated its support. Blaisdell also says Harvard would be much more inclined to develop their properties if PandM is open. WInnipeg CHamber of commerce also reiterated support.

https://winnipegsun.com/news/local-n...ion-owners-say
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  #277  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2018, 11:44 PM
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Seems like there are a lot more media reports recently featuring people/groups that support opening P & M. It's nice to finally see the "open" side get a chance to make their case. I hop emit sways a few undecided into the "yes" camp.
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  #278  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2018, 3:15 PM
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Jan Gehl's comment at the WCC conference yesterday should change everyone's mind. Portage and Main is "1970s Toronto" OUCH!
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  #279  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2018, 3:38 PM
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Former Mayor Glen Murray weighs in:

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/i-think-...bate-1.4101034
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  #280  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2018, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway View Post
The Disraeli Bridge was turned down by plebiscite twice in the late '50s before council decided to go ahead and build it anyway. The general population is not equipped to make these decisions.

Right. People thought Duff Roblin was a madman re: the Floodway. How many times has "Duff's Ditch" saved the city? Imagine the cost if it were to be built today? It turned out to be such a great idea that it was expanded just a few years ago.
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