Gay Life in Canadian Cities

[Doug_Cgy]

Originally Posted by freeweed

As a heterosexual, white, drug-free English-speaking man, I'm certainly immune to and ignorant of any and all social conservatism, because basically all of society is designed to support me and my tastes.

So I'll ask the gay Calgarians here - where is this "socially conservative" side of Calgary that I never see? Do we have a lot of gay bashing incidents? Are people being denied jobs because of their skin colour? Are single moms looked down upon? Do AIDS patients get sent to leper colonies? Do we have prisons full of recreational drug users?

I can't ever experience any of this directly so I'm a bit in the dark. Perhaps those that live here can enlighten me. Surely it's common knowledge given how much authority so many people here have spoken about it with.

It doesn't exist here any more than any other city I've lived in or visited. In fact, moving to Calgary played a pivotal role in me coming out to my family and friends. Everyone I have surrounded myself with here has been nothing short of amazing to me through it all. Not to mention all the wonderful new people I have met along my journey.

The only "social conservatism" that exists here is the false perception of it that those east, west, and north of us all seem to think we suffer from.

I'm openly gay and proud to call Calgary home.

[Chadillaccc]

!!!

Originally Posted by leftimage

No need to remind me, but what about the city's voting record?

The conservative party of Canada may not be as bad as it`s US counterpart - the fact remains its a more socially conservative party than the Liberals.

All eight of Calgary's federal MPs are members of the Conservative Party of Canada. 100% conservative - in a city no less !

Also, Calgary is represented by twenty-five provincial MLAs, including twenty Progressive Conservatives, three Liberals, and two members of the Wildrose Party.

I mean... this is not just stereotypes I`m going by here...

That is still stereotyping. You're talking about federal and provincial politics, not real life on the ground. People weren't saying "Hey, Harper is the most anti-gay major candidate! He's got my vote!" They were saying "Hey, Harper is the candidate that most supports the economy that feeds most of Western Canada(resource extraction). He's got my vote!"

[240glt]

^ you obviously weren't around when Goliaths was raided. most definitely a black mark that reflects very poorly on the city's tolerance levels

Or the U of C prof that led the witch hunt against Little Sisters in Vancouver

I am not saying that Calgary is not generally a diverse and accepting city, just like most other Canadian cities. But it does have a history

Anecdotally, Calgary is the only city were i experienced overt homophobia. Generally it's not the church going so-cons, it's the young dirtbaggy males that perpetrate that. And Calgary (like many cities) has plenty of those

[240glt]

^^ you obviously weren't around when Goliaths was raided. most definitely a black mark that reflects very poorly on the city's tolerance levels

Or the U of C prof that led the witch hunt against Little Sisters in Vancouver

I am not saying that Calgary is not generally a diverse and accepting city, just like most other Canadian cities. But it does have a history

Anecdotally, Calgary is the only city were i experienced overt homophobia. Generally it's not the church going so-cons, it's the young dirtbaggy males that perpetrate that. And Calgary (like many cities) has plenty of those

[Chadillaccc]

Those events were a long time ago. Every city was anti gay in the 70s and 80s. Many even into the 90s. Every city has a history of bigotry. Nothing like that has happened in around 2 decades. Things change, a fact that people need to begin to realize.

Anecdotally, the only cities that I've lived in that I've experienced overt homophobia are Toronto, Kelowna, and Vancouver. Well, and my shithole hometown of Woodstock of course

[Doug_Cgy]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Those events were a long time ago. Every city was anti gay in the 70s and 80s. Many even into the 90s.

The only cities that I've lived in that I've experienced overt homophobia are Toronto, Kelowna, and Vancouver. Well, and my shithole hometown of Woodstock of course

Precisely,and the fact that Goliaths was raided and the backlash the police faced, actually has made Calgary better for LGBT people. In fact, our Police have one of the best diversity units in the country now. I worked closely with them when I volunteered on the Pride Board.

I've never experienced overt homophobia anywhere, but have been called "fag" here, in Edmonton, Toronto and Halifax.

[Chadillaccc]

Oh, okay. Well if being called a fag isn't overt homophobia, the only place I've experienced actual overt homophobia is Woodstock.

[240glt]

Like I said, it's got a history. Those events I listed may go back more than a decade, butit takes a long time for perceptions to change

I had to stop a friend from getting the crap kicked out of him, right in front of the Timothy's on 17th. It was in 2004. It was definitely a wake up call.

The yelling of 'fag' from a passing car hardly even phases me. In fact it's quite hilarious. Spend some time at the big window at Woodys and you'll see and hear all kinds of crazy shit

[Doug_Cgy]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Oh, okay. Well if being called a fag isn't overt homophobia, the only place I've experienced actual overt homophobia is Woodstock.

Sorry, overt was the wrong word for me to use. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of gay bashings etc

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ you obviously weren't around when Goliaths was raided. most definitely a black mark that reflects very poorly on the city's tolerance levels

Or the U of C prof that led the witch hunt against Little Sisters in Vancouver

I am not saying that Calgary is not generally a diverse and accepting city, just like most other Canadian cities. But it does have a history

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa nelly.

If we're using our own personal anecdotes of one-off happenings from decades ago - well then Winnipeg is by far the most socially conservative city in Canada. Gay bashings were incredibly common there in the late 80s/early 90s - to the point that it was often nightly news - and the justice system basically let the offenders off with a slap on the wrist. And I seem to recall Toronto experiencing a bunch of police raids on BDSM and other "risque" clubs about a decade ago (my timing might be off here).

I guess those 2 cities are even MORE socially conservative than Calgary, if that's the standard we're using here.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by freeweed

As a heterosexual, white, drug-free English-speaking man, I'm certainly immune to and ignorant of any and all social conservatism, because basically all of society is designed to support me and my tastes.

If we can civilly discuss this (and knowing you, freeweed, I'm sure we can)... then why not try to address your point...

From our point of view (and what's portrayed in the national media)... I'd offer at least...

1) tendency to dismiss global warming "theories" as baloney, way more than we do here

2) tendency to be more pro-life (with several Harper MPs voting for that fetal rights bill proposal a couple years ago)

3) tendency to want to "drill baby drill", regardless of the environmental cost (while here, we'd collectively rather be poorer if that's what it takes, but we prefer to not exploit our reserves of oil and gas)




and 4) (because why not) reports by the people I know who've lived in AB that the bars close earlier over there.

[freeweed]

You guys really don't distinguish between the population and its elected officials, do you? Fascinating how we can cherry pick to suit our own prejudices.

I guess Montrealers are the most corrupt people in Canada, if that's how this is determined. And Quebecers are the most anti-Muslim.

[Chadillaccc]

Oh and don't forget, Toronto is completely pro-crack smoking! (clearly sarcasm, don't have an aneurysm)

Also, please don't be confused. Obviously I realize that Calgary is a bit more conservative than other cities around the country, but in my many travels/residencies in cities across the country, I can certainly say that currently Calgary is no more homophobic than other major cities. It's actually less, in my experience. Politically conservative and socially conservative are two very different things, I really thought people realized this. You can't just make sweeping judgments about an entire city of over 1 million people based on their voting patterns. Not in Canada at least. There is SOOO much data to show that Calgary is no more socially conservative than the other major cities, yet this argument persists. Why?

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by freeweed

You guys really don't distinguish between the population and its elected officials, do you? Fascinating how we can cherry pick to suit our own prejudices.

I guess Montrealers are the most corrupt people in Canada, if that's how this is determined. And Quebecers are the most anti-Muslim.

Well put!

[lio45]

Originally Posted by freeweed

You guys really don't distinguish between the population and its elected officials, do you?

Well, unless Allan83 happens to be an elected official (which in my honest opinion would be scarier than Rob Ford, but I disgress) we've ALSO got a bit of taste of the population, simply by hanging out on a pan-Canadian forum...

And what are they if they aren't part of the population? Quebec's MPs generally speak for Quebec... I'm supposed to believe Alberta's MPs are living in a bubble disconnected from their constituents?

I guess Montrealers are the most corrupt people in Canada, if that's how this is determined. And Quebecers are the most anti-Muslim.

Anti-muslim, I would concede the point. And in fact, I already did. In this very thread. I think there are reasons for it, though. My example with how presumably-well-meaning Newfoundlanders would react in the face of overwhelming immigration probably illustrates it best.

If you had to name the most anti-Muslim province in the country, which one would it be? I'd have to say Quebec. And you?

Montreal having been Canada's metropolis for a while, and an Eastern (or East Coast...?) city, kinda set the stage for it to be the mafia's favorite location. Same thing with NYC, south of the border. The bigger cities are where organized crime is most likely to flourish. The mob's roots in Montreal might be older than certain Alberta cities... So, again, you have a point.

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^^ you obviously weren't around when Goliaths was raided. most definitely a black mark that reflects very poorly on the city's tolerance levels

Or the U of C prof that led the witch hunt against Little Sisters in Vancouver

I am not saying that Calgary is not generally a diverse and accepting city, just like most other Canadian cities. But it does have a history

Anecdotally, Calgary is the only city were i experienced overt homophobia. Generally it's not the church going so-cons, it's the young dirtbaggy males that perpetrate that. And Calgary (like many cities) has plenty of those

As I mentioned before streotypes are hard to get rid of and maybe Calgary is deserving do to some past events 20 years ago.

As far as anecdotal evidence goes, everyone here on SSP has plenty of anecdotal evidence of all types of experiences in all other cities, legitimate or not. I don't listen to it due to my own experiences. For each instance where you saw homophobia in Calgary there is probably another two, three or maybe ten instances where tolerance has been observed.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I can certainly say that currently Calgary is no more homophobic than other major cities.

Gay-friendliness is only one component of several. Why would you want to stick to that one metric?

If I can pick and choose the metric, then...

Denver is a better place to be a pot smoker than Calgary. Therefore, Calgary is a more socially conservative place than Denver.

Memphis, TN, has had for several decades elected mayors who were darker-skinned than Nenshi. Therefore, Calgary is a more socially conservative place than Memphis, a MAJOR BIBLE BELT CITY.


If you want to center the discussion on gay-friendliness, fine, but don't make the mistake of thinking that gay friendliness is the one and only measure of social conservatism. It's not. And when Easterners point out that a certain place is socially conservative, if your reply is "but it's gay-friendly", you and your interlocutors actually aren't even talking about the same thing, no wonder you won't agree.

[losername]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

One other thing to point out...

I've noticed (here as well) that people like to point to the existence of gay villages in certain communities as evidence that they were exceedingly homophobic. That's not often the case.

Cities in North America that gave gay villages are generally the ones whose LGBT communities were the first to push for visibility, acceptance, and equal rights. Gay villages came about as part of their efforts to bring homosexuality out of the closet. This made gay villages, like those in Toronto and Montreal, destinations for LGBT people from elsewhere in the city, province, and country - not only people who wanted to fight for their rights, but also those who simply wanted to take it easy and be themselves.

The existence of a gay village in a city doesn't really say anything about how accepting or homophobic it is. It just indicates that LGBT people have been living openly there, intentionally, since the days when this was universally shocking everywhere in North America.

Likewise, cities without gay villages are often just ones that didn't really have large populations and sizeable LGBT communities until relative acceptance had been achieved.

It's like... women earning the right to vote. You can look at country A and say surely it must have been more sexist because it had a suffragette movement, whereas country B didn't. But country B simply allowed women the vote when it was the norm the world over.

There are exceptions of course - cities where homosexuality was simply a non-issue, as was the case in many parts of Canada, especially (prior to the introduction of organized western religion) among First Nations.

I read somewhere that the first openly I known gay bar in Canada was in Calgary, the greenroom at the palliser I believe.

[franktko]

Originally Posted by freeweed

You guys really don't distinguish between the population and its elected officials, do you? Fascinating how we can cherry pick to suit our own prejudices.

I guess Montrealers are the most corrupt people in Canada, if that's how this is determined. And Quebecers are the most anti-Muslim.

That's not a smart assumption. People didn't get elected on the basis that they would setup a corruption ring, take bribes and pay inflated prices for goverment contracts. Just like Ford didn't get elected by saying he would smoke crack, party and make a fool of himself.

Generally, the people being elected represent the values of the people.

Now if Ford gets re-elected, then we can say that the people of Toronto don't care much about a drunk crack smoking classless dude running their city

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Also, please don't be confused. Obviously I realize that Calgary is a bit more conservative than other cities around the country, but in my many travels/residencies in cities across the country, I can certainly say that currently Calgary is no more homophobic than other major cities.

Wow. Are we actually in agreement...? (Bolded part mine.)

And yes, I know you're ignoring me, but I believe you can still choose to read posts if you want. (I've never ignored anyone, but I've gathered over time that that was how it worked.)