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  #2021  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
I came across it before, but I think it is for the old proposal, the new one may have changed (not sure). Anyway, IMO that is a very good design, not dated, and would no doubt be very exclusive. It would be competitive in any upscale area of a large Canadian city.
I think that's a great area for high density as well. Next to major roads and still in a convenient area.
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  #2022  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 3:58 PM
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Value of building permits in October were $149.6 million in St. John's. The only cities that did better then St. John's were the 1,000,000+ population cities, excluding Gatienue we actually did better then Ottawa.
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  #2023  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 4:12 PM
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Possibly some good news out of a bad situation, I'm an optimist.

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Atlantic Place evacuated

Atlantic Place has been evacuated and traffic on both sides of the downtown St. John’s office building diverted. The building houses offices, provincial court, a gym and other facilities including a bank and food court.

Workers in the building have been officially told a bomb threat has been made and the building will be closed for an hour or two.

Update later.
http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...ce-evacuated/1
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  #2024  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 5:24 PM
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Possibly some good news out of a bad situation, I'm an optimist.

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...ce-evacuated/1
We wouldn't be so lucky, would we?
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  #2025  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 6:03 PM
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We wouldn't be so lucky, would we?
Nope, sadly staff are reentering the building.
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  #2026  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2010, 10:31 PM
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Something happened with the old CBC building development at the council meeting. I missed what it was, it was promising, and there will be more on CBC latenight.
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  #2027  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 2:00 AM
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Edit: Oops, I posted something by mistake from an old blog (now removed), it's hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Looking forward to some new news.

Last edited by Architype; Dec 7, 2010 at 8:55 PM.
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  #2028  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 3:24 AM
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Something happened with the old CBC building development at the council meeting. I missed what it was, it was promising, and there will be more on CBC latenight.
The council live-feed on twitter wasn't happening tonight, so I couldn't get the complete details. All I heard on CBC this evening is that the development itself was well-received by council because of the parking garage (well not the design, but that it made more parking for the downtown core)
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  #2029  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 8:55 PM
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Not getting cheaper -

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St. John's to See Highest Real Estate Price Jump in Country

RE/MAX says St. John's will see the biggest jump in average home prices in the country this year, up 15 per cent to $251,000 by year's end. RE/MAX says that, while housing sales are expected to finish 2010 slightly off 2009 levels and remain static in 2011 at 3,600 units, income growth, rising employment and an increasing population are forecasted to prop-up average price appreciation. The report says inventory has been building as this province now shifts into buyer's territory. RE/MAX says the Lower Churchill project will prove to be a significant boon to both the local economy and consumer confidence. RE/MAX says the upper-end of the market will remain on par with this year's exceptional levels, but condo sales are forecasted to remain flat. Average home prices in this province should reach $271,000 by the end of 2011, an eight per cent increase over this year.
http://www.vocm.com/newsarticle.asp?mn=2&id=10990


Demand for the condo market is determined by the quality of choice, supply, and competitiveness compared to suburban subdivisions. The marketing of condos and the quality of design, and convenience of location, including poor use of outdoor space, is somewhat lacking in St. John's.
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  #2030  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 8:56 PM
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The roof is off the Woolworth Building!
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  #2031  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2010, 9:14 PM
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The roof is off the Woolworth Building!
Should be interesting to see a vacant space there, I guess construction will begin next year !
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  #2032  
Old Posted Dec 8, 2010, 3:55 AM
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Should be interesting to see a vacant space there, I guess construction will begin next year !
if the development ever gets approved.
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  #2033  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2010, 6:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
if the development ever gets approved.
Do we really want to see it approved in its present form?

The reason I ask that question is to see what everyone thinks of the design and whether or not it could be better.

With all due respect to the architects I personally think the design and the overall development of that area could be better.

In reality what we are going to get is a 6 story office building with a very small retail component. The bulk of the mass is going to be yet another ugly waterfront parking garage.

It frustrates me to no end to see the total lack of vision for this whole block that has now been removed from heritage designation.

What are we going to end up with if the Eastport and Compusult proposals get built alongside the existing Templeton property? Three very different and equally ugly structures.

I’m not saying everything should look the same but imagine for a minute if that whole block could be developed as one big property, built in phases.

Here’s what I would do. Step 1 – bring all parties to the table and discuss with them their plans. We know that two out of three (Templetons being the exception) are ready to go. Step 2 – Get them to work together to design something that meets everyone’s needs, including the City. (maybe a design competition is a bit far fetched but it might be an interesting exercise) Step 3 – determine the timeline for developing the three phases. Yeah, sounds simple…lol.

I may have mentioned my “vision” here before and I strongly believe that it is as good or better than anything I’ve heard put forward so far, so I’ll repeat it, briefly.

Parking - # 1, hide it, # 2, design it as a single two or three level (maybe 4) structure encompassing almost the full footprint of the block, the only exception being retention of some curbside appeal.

Woolworths portion – Allow a maximum height of 14 or 15 stories but step it up and back so that it isn’t a giant cube or boring.

Compusult portion – Go for 8, maybe 9 stories total, again stepped up and back.

Templetons portion – (if and when they, or someone else, decide to go ahead) Allow of maybe three stories right at the cove but step up to a height of 5 to 7 stories.

Retail, public space etc. – the full length of Water St should be retained as retail space. As much of Harbor Drive as possible should be pedestrian friendly, perhaps a restaurant or café etc. Oh heck, why not throw in a tree or two. Between each “tower” should be some open space where practical.

Obviously this is just one idea and I fully realize that when you have multiple parties involved nothing can ever be that simple. For on thing you are in essence telling each owner that their land is of a different value based on what you will allow them to build. Difficult or not, what bothers me is that while I understand some discussions have taken place no one has been able to bring the parties to any agreement. That, to me, indicates a lack of leadership somewhere along the way.

I have pitched this idea to members of Council and have received some responses however things continue to move along as they have been. The sad part is that a year or two from now it will be too late to undo what will have been done.
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  #2034  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2010, 8:21 PM
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^ The only problem with the Woolworth's proposal in my mind is the parking garage, besides that it all looks great from the pictures. I am concerned that the materials will end up not being that great though, particualarly for the tower portion.

The Compusult building I have no problems with.
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  #2035  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2010, 3:11 AM
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^ Horsell, these are not bad ideas, but I just want to give a few thoughts on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsell
Do we really want to see it approved in its present form?

The reason I ask that question is to see what everyone thinks of the design and whether or not it could be better. With all due respect to the architects I personally think the design and the overall development of that area could be better.
Most people want the circus of development confusion and opposition to end, and see a workable set of regulations put in place which will work for everyone. Most people seem to feel that this design is a reasonable compromise, providing parking, office space and retail along Water Street. I don't see it as a landmark building, but it's better than doing nothing. The building form (massing) resembles the tower and podium concept used in Vancouver, except that the tower is much shorter; this has largely been accepted as a pleasing and workable building form.

The design is worked out practically, but it is not aesthetically outstanding or over the top. The tower portion seems very basic, a bit stubby, but could look ok with the right materials. This is often subjective, increased complexity of design (such as angles and curves) usually means increased costs. Also, keeping it conservative and basic is the "safe" way to go; avant-garde architecture is more readily accepted in larger cities.

Quote:
In reality what we are going to get is a 6 story office building with a very small retail component. The bulk of the mass is going to be yet another ugly waterfront parking garage.
I agree, but there is some retail where it is most important; increasing it would subtract from the amount of parking available. They have taken some care in desigining the parking structure to make it more attractive, but the parking function (ramps) will be a deliberately obvious feature from the harbour side; I'm not sure if that's a good thing.

Quote:
It frustrates me to no end to see the total lack of vision for this whole block that has now been removed from heritage designation.

What are we going to end up with if the Eastport and Compusult proposals get built alongside the existing Templeton property? Three very different and equally ugly structures.

I’m not saying everything should look the same but imagine for a minute if that whole block could be developed as one big property, built in phases.
The concept that this block is allowing more height is relatively new; both proposals were conceived before the block was removed from the heritage area. Combining the projects, or making them work together is something which would be rare or unorthodox, but could require a lot more study and planning, thus holding up development for at least another year. Combining the projects might result in a more monolithic development, which results in it being even more out of scale with the surroundings. Restricting horizontal scale (footprint and street frontage) is just as important as restricting vertical scale (height).

Quote:
Here’s what I would do. Step 1 – bring all parties to the table and discuss with them their plans. We know that two out of three (Templetons being the exception) are ready to go. Step 2 – Get them to work together to design something that meets everyone’s needs, including the City. (maybe a design competition is a bit far fetched but it might be an interesting exercise) Step 3 – determine the timeline for developing the three phases. Yeah, sounds simple…lol.

I may have mentioned my “vision” here before and I strongly believe that it is as good or better than anything I’ve heard put forward so far, so I’ll repeat it, briefly.

Parking - # 1, hide it, # 2, design it as a single two or three level (maybe 4) structure encompassing almost the full footprint of the block, the only exception being retention of some curbside appeal.
That would require complete financial restructuring of the two (or three) projects, best done by a single developer; architecturally possible, but it may be impractical and costly for the parties involved. The designs would have to be redone, starting from scratch so that they function together and compliment each other intentionally. There is no guarantee that everyone (including the public) would be satisfied.

Quote:
Woolworths portion – Allow a maximum height of 14 or 15 stories but step it up and back so that it isn’t a giant cube or boring.

Compusult portion – Go for 8, maybe 9 stories total, again stepped up and back.

Templetons portion – (if and when they, or someone else, decide to go ahead) Allow of maybe three stories right at the cove but step up to a height of 5 to 7 stories.
I agree with that, but as you increase the size of the office components, the capacity of the parking component would have to increase vertically as well.

Quote:
Retail, public space etc. – the full length of Water St should be retained as retail space. As much of Harbor Drive as possible should be pedestrian friendly, perhaps a restaurant or café etc. Oh heck, why not throw in a tree or two. Between each “tower” should be some open space where practical.
I agree with all of that.

Quote:
Obviously this is just one idea and I fully realize that when you have multiple parties involved nothing can ever be that simple. For one thing you are in essence telling each owner that their land is of a different value based on what you will allow them to build. Difficult or not, what bothers me is that while I understand some discussions have taken place no one has been able to bring the parties to any agreement. That, to me, indicates a lack of leadership somewhere along the way.

I have pitched this idea to members of Council and have received some responses however things continue to move along as they have been. The sad part is that a year or two from now it will be too late to undo what will have been done.
It's good to have done so, people with constructive ideas should make them known where it counts. However, it's pretty universal to develop each private property individually; developing it as one large one would be much more complex, requiring a total redesign, and given the reasons we both acknowledged above, it's not likely to happen, but some coordination might be possible, such as making the parking of each project work together with some connections between them. This might reduce the considerable amount of space required for parking ramps. Some mechanical systems might have to be combined too.

Last edited by Architype; Dec 12, 2010 at 11:55 PM.
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  #2036  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2010, 9:41 PM
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Councillors just voted to increase a bunch of taxes for the residents, they did take care of themselves though by decreasing taxes for seniors.
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  #2037  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2010, 1:06 AM
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Looks like a warehouse-styled building on Water Street, one building east of the Courtyard St. John's Newfoundland Hotel, is adding some large windows at street level. Unsure of any other plans - just noticed it while driving by. It's not the most exciting news but I'm positive it'll be nicer than the current look of the building which you can see below. That area should be really nice looking when construction of the condos and such as finished. A couple shops or whatever could possibly do well there now and combined may help revitalize the east side of Water Street which is kind of vacant. Too bad Anchorage Cafe is gone - it was the least pretentious, pretentious cafe on the go. Good coffee and a nice spot to sit around.
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  #2038  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2010, 9:46 PM
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  #2039  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2010, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by niccanning View Post
Looks like a warehouse-styled building on Water Street, one building east of the Courtyard St. John's Newfoundland Hotel, is adding some large windows at street level. Unsure of any other plans - just noticed it while driving by. It's not the most exciting news but I'm positive it'll be nicer than the current look of the building which you can see below. That area should be really nice looking when construction of the condos and such as finished. A couple shops or whatever could possibly do well there now and combined may help revitalize the east side of Water Street which is kind of vacant. Too bad Anchorage Cafe is gone - it was the least pretentious, pretentious cafe on the go. Good coffee and a nice spot to sit around.
^ That site could be redeveloped to 4 stories on Duckworth, 7 on Water (another prime site with much potential and a great view).

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=...70.62,,0,-3.06
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  #2040  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2010, 1:26 AM
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There are some funny comments there, I agree about the destructive nature of big box development on local business and culture etc.
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