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  #61  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 8:57 PM
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You can tell renovations have begun with the 2nd floor of the Camco building. All the windows are covered and bright lights are always on.
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  #62  
Old Posted Jan 9, 2008, 10:30 PM
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Frankly, I'm thrilled there is so much interest in building more hotel capacity in the city--it's been a longtime coming. As for any attitude that the projects will be "bush league"--well, I'm not going to rehash my post about negativity, or that people around the city want development, but only if they can dictate the terms.

If this project ends up with Marriott branding, it could easily end up a dual-site. Marriott often combines a couple of brands in one location--co-locating Courtyards and Residence Inns and sometimes Fairfield Inns. I believe's Oscar's plans for the Airport Inn site involve a Residence Inn. Co-locating means separate buildings with separate amenties--but allows much of the "back-of-house" functions to be shared. Hilton branding on the site could mean anything from a Hilton Garden Inn to a Hampton or an Embassy Suites.

All of this is great news and is going to have a great prominent spot alongside the 403.
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  #63  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 1:08 AM
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It is what it is.
It's a bush league hotel. If you think that's a nice hotel... good for you. I wouldn't be happy with it, if I was a visiting scientist from Houston, Chicago, Oslo, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Halifax or Winnepeg. I would go back home, thinking... Hamilton is a bush-league city.

It's not negativity. I just want better for Hamilton.

Welland, Burlington, Mississauga, St. Catharines, Windsor they can have this crap... doesn't Ontario's third most important urban area deserve better? We need an ARB. We NEED out-of-town-real-investors. Kichi is part of the same crap that has been going on for 20 years. And look what they have brought us.... a vacant Lister, a vacant Royal Connaught, a vacant Federal Building on Ontario's third largest city's Main Street, a half empty J Square, a piece of shit hooker hotel at Caroline and Main, a highway strip hotel on U.James set 300 meters back from the street, a laser tag and Hooters...... you see... adding a half dozen 150 room hotels, won't make a visual impact on the city, they will serve the need of hotel rooms in this city, more importantly... adding a half dozen 150 room bush league hotels WILL prevent Hamilton from ever having another Sheraton... or another 400+ 5-star hotel. I would rather see one nice Hyatt/Hilton/Marriott/Delta/Crown Plaza 5-star 400-600 room downtown hotel high rise than 6 Upper James Courtyard Marriotts scattered around town.

And that's how we will fill unfortunately fill the need of hotel rooms in this city... the same way Brantford does, with the little hotel format that works in St. Thomas and Sarnia. Big Cities deserve Big Hotels. We deserve another big hotel. Right now we have ONE.... The Sheraton and that's sad, because there is an identified market and no investor steps up to build a hotel to meet that demand, other than a 144 room highway strip hotel.
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Last edited by realcity; Jan 10, 2008 at 1:20 AM.
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  #64  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 1:36 AM
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It is what it is.
It's a bush league hotel. If you think that's a nice hotel... good for you. I wouldn't be happy with it, if I was a visiting scientist from Houston, Chicago, Oslo, Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa, Halifax or Winnepeg. I would go back home, thinking... Hamilton is a bush-league city.
Have you driven over the Skyway lately? Until that image is gone, we should be thankful for anyone coming here to visit, let alone invest.
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  #65  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:29 AM
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I'm with realcity, although nobody knows what this hotel will look like yet...it might be a beauty.
I hate this attitude in Hamilton that we should be happy we get anything...like Goldfingers comment above. Hamilton DOES deserve better. Why should we always get the trashy, crappy level of design and investment?? Why don't WE start showing pride in our city instead of making comments about driving over the Skyway. Maybe then, people who build things will do the extra tiny things that go a long way in developing properties instead of always doing the bare, crappy minimum.
The reason they do is because we allow them to. In fact, that's all we expect because that's all we think we're worth. The Skyway view isn't our enemy. We are.
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  #66  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:53 AM
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I'm with realcity, although nobody knows what this hotel will look like yet...it might be a beauty.
I hate this attitude in Hamilton that we should be happy we get anything...like Goldfingers comment above. Hamilton DOES deserve better. Why should we always get the trashy, crappy level of design and investment?? Why don't WE start showing pride in our city instead of making comments about driving over the Skyway. Maybe then, people who build things will do the extra tiny things that go a long way in developing properties instead of always doing the bare, crappy minimum.
The reason they do is because we allow them to. In fact, that's all we expect because that's all we think we're worth. The Skyway view isn't our enemy. We are.
Well I also hate the attitude of people who feel that they should have the final word on what is acceptable design/development and what is not. What you might find to be "trashy,crappy", others might like. Who are you to decide whats right or wrong? You guys are already complaining about a building you haven't even seen yet.

If all you can do is sit back and bitch/be critical while others take the initiative and the risks, your opinion isn't worth squat. It's that same attitude that keeps projects like Lister and others in this city from moving forward. Eventually, the entrepreneurs realize that this place just isn't worth the hassle.
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  #67  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 4:04 AM
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I'm not complaining about a building I haven't seen. In fact, if you'd bother to read my post before yapping about it, you would have read this:
I'm with realcity, although nobody knows what this hotel will look like yet...it might be a beauty.
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  #68  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 6:16 AM
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The negativity here is simply astonishing. I cannot bend my linear mind around the idea that there is such a venomous attitude toward development in Hamilton--it really is unbelievable. While you may prefer that a nice 400 or 500 room hotel get built--the realities of the hospitality industry in this decade are far different. If what you really want is another marquee hotel in the city--I suggest you welcome the current influx of hotel developments--as they will make the city more attractive as a convention destination--a booming convention centre is all that is going to spur development of a major downtown hotel--the kinds of properties that are proposed--midscale, business-oriented properties are what are being developed by the industry today. Anyone who has travelled on business in the past decade knows it (I don't care if you're visiting Canmet or not)--this is where the growth is.

Indeed, the view from the Skyway is not the enemy--negativity is the enemy. And what's so bad about Hooters?
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  #69  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom View Post
And what's so bad about Hooters?

A little off-topic, but, since you asked, I have a bit of a problem with a 'restaurant' whose only employment prerequisite for its waitresses is big boobs. It's not really one of the first places you want out-of-town hotel guests seeing as they establish their initial perceptions on what this city is all about. I am not sure how Hooters is perceived in your home turf of Windsor/Detriot, but here in Hamilton it's not exactly considered a nice place to take the wife and kids out for a family dinner.

You'll have to excuse my negativity, but I pride myself in keeping my mindset non-linear.
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  #70  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 2:19 PM
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What's wrong with dreaming big? How come whenever anyone in Hamilton has grand visions, especially if they appear out of reach, it's always spun as negativity/anti-development. Why is "be thankful we are getting anything at all" considered pro-development while "I wish we could get the best" considered anti-development?
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  #71  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 2:22 PM
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Haha my cousin used to work at Hooters, I have a photo of her at work that I show around to piss her off haha.
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  #72  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 2:26 PM
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I don't think we're being negative for the sake of being negative... we're all just sick of settling in this city.

Coalmine's right! If people that care about this city didn't raise a stink, then I'm sure we'd be stuck w/ a bunch of Ellen Fairclough Bldgs (worst piece of architecture in the city, imo).

So if you guys are content with Mississauga City Centre-type development, move there! Rejoyce in it's splendor! Long-Live Faux-Stucco! But aslong as I'm living in a city I take great pride in (most of the time), I'm going to bitch about stuff that doesn't make me happy until it's fixed.

How many people emailed / called / wrote / harrassed Redcliffe Mgmt about their plans for Centre Mall? I know I did. And I'm sure tons of other ppl did as well... and what happened? They decided to redesign the Centre. If we all sat back with this "Well at least it's SOMETHING" attitude, we'd have a giant parking lot with a dozen-or-so random boxes here and there.
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  #73  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 2:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
What's wrong with dreaming big? How come whenever anyone in Hamilton has grand visions, especially if they appear out of reach, it's always spun as negativity/anti-development. Why is "be thankful we are getting anything at all" considered pro-development while "I wish we could get the best" considered anti-development?
That's what I was trying to say, but this comment makes the point better. I'm glad to hear other people want better for Hamilton too.


Personally i have nothing against the view from the Skyway or even the drive over the elevated Burlington Street. It's a one-of-a-kind-view in all of Canada. This is an industrialized world, the truth is factories have to exist, we all want steal in our lives, it's needed to build buildings and filing cabinets. That view is also what it is. Wealth, employment, industry, taxes contributing to a functioning world.



This industry put food on my table and provided a roof over my head as a child growing up.... and still does for many families in Hamilton. I can't hate it for that.

I actually find the view facinating every time I drive over the bridge I can't concentrate on the road, I want to look at it.
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  #74  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:34 PM
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Yes! I like the factory skyline as well. It's a glimpse into reality, and it looks very other-worldly and amazing to me.

I actually like bringing people into the city via Burlington St when I can because I think it is a unique and awe inspiring view. I also like the approach by the 403 because of cootes. In my opinion, no matter which way you come into Hamilton you are in for a treat.... coming down the 403 from ancaster, amazing view. Coming in by cootes, amazing. Coming in Burlington street, amazing. And even coming down the new RHV!

I always use the steel mills as an example of nimbyism for the entire rest of the province: everyone loves to talk about how "ugly" Hamilton is when they pass by on the skyway -- but where the hell do they think the steel for their car came from? It has to come from somewhere and I for one embrace this part of our history (and our present!)
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  #75  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 3:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DC83 View Post
I don't think we're being negative for the sake of being negative... we're all just sick of settling in this city.

Coalmine's right! If people that care about this city didn't raise a stink, then I'm sure we'd be stuck w/ a bunch of Ellen Fairclough Bldgs (worst piece of architecture in the city, imo).

So if you guys are content with Mississauga City Centre-type development, move there! Rejoyce in it's splendor! Long-Live Faux-Stucco! But aslong as I'm living in a city I take great pride in (most of the time), I'm going to bitch about stuff that doesn't make me happy until it's fixed.

How many people emailed / called / wrote / harrassed Redcliffe Mgmt about their plans for Centre Mall? I know I did. And I'm sure tons of other ppl did as well... and what happened? They decided to redesign the Centre. If we all sat back with this "Well at least it's SOMETHING" attitude, we'd have a giant parking lot with a dozen-or-so random boxes here and there.

well said.
The media has poisoned too many people in Hamilton into believing that if you voice your opinion or criticize a project/idea that somehow you're 'anti-development'.
No, crappy projects and embarassing buildings are 'anti-development'. they make the city look bush and keep away real investment since we give off this hick-town appearance and have this hick-town attitude that "at least it's something". I want people to come here and be impressed....and other business/developers to come here and be impressed.
Not see shite like the Trinity Landing or City View Terrace and think to themselves "I could never build a modern condo tower in that town...their standards are way too low".
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  #76  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 5:30 PM
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I really have to say something here.
I travel a lot and I do not think I have ever booked a hotel/motel on its exterior looks and all most every does the same. I usually do not know what it looks like to I get there. The reasons are usually several.
First I go the hotels that are part of the loyalty programs I belong to, Marriott Group and InterContinental Hotels Group (Holiday Inn).
Next is Price then it’s location to what I am in the area for.
Even though I like the look of a nice building whether it is old or new I judge the hotel by what is in the hotel, how well it is kept up and its amenities and service.
I have also stayed in some dives and other hotel chain because it suited me.
As to the shitty look of some hotels, most people like that cookie cutter look and I am sure that the hotel chains have done their research at what attracts the travelling public.
That said I would love to see a nice looking tall hotel on the edge of the highway but I am not holding my breath. I think we would get a short not bad looking hotel.

And to Hooters, lots of families go there. I have been to Hooters with my family but only in other cities. We have never been to the one in Hamilton as a family as we find the food not very good there and the novelty had warren off by the time the Hamilton one was built. I have been there with groups but I think their chicken wings are awful and I go where the chicken wings are a lot better. A lot of business people will go there on out of town trip.
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  #77  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 6:46 PM
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When looking for a hotel I first look at its rating. Personally, I attempt to stay in hotels that have the best ratings and reviews. Corporate managers, researchers, and CEOs of affluence will do the same. Price is not going to be the central issue to them.

Hotel ratings are largly based on DESIGN, location, and access to amenities. This hotel will not have a vibrant location nor access to amenities (ie. high quality entertainment and food). The design will need to significantly make up for these deficiencies if it intends to receive at least a four star rating. If not, its success at attracting high caliber guests who visit the research park will be limited.
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  #78  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 7:45 PM
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These doctors, researchers, scientists, etc won't be paying to stay overnight instead McMaster will. Having these conferences McMaster will have to pay. I've personally been responsible for booking hotel rooms for a guest at Sheraton. I remember one time someone booked a guest at Airport Inn and the guest freaked and they had to change the hotel to Sheraton.

These guest like big puffy beds, plenty of pillows, internet, TV, phone, and good meals.

So I imagine with this hotel coming to Innovation Park that they'll have made a deal so that the hotel will provide discount rates for McMaster.
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  #79  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 8:02 PM
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Considering that there is not much guaranteed at the site besides CANMET I'm impressed that they have already plans. As a graduate of Mac, with a bachelor's, master's and
PhD from the ECE department, I'm familiar with the poor rate of spinoffs that Mac has compared with other institutions. I believe that the innovation park eventually will be successful, but it is going to take time and luck (ie a little company that gets hot).

With regards to the quality of the hotel, as has been previously said, hotels beside research parks are generally nondescript. I was at a conference at NIST in Gaithersburg Maryland a month ago and the designated hotel was a Holiday Inn. It was ok, but certainly not the Four Seasons in downtown DC. None of the other scientists seemed to care it was a Holiday Inn.
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  #80  
Old Posted Jan 10, 2008, 9:00 PM
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Originally Posted by coalminecanary View Post
What's wrong with dreaming big? How come whenever anyone in Hamilton has grand visions, especially if they appear out of reach, it's always spun as negativity/anti-development. Why is "be thankful we are getting anything at all" considered pro-development while "I wish we could get the best" considered anti-development?
Nothing wrong with dreaming big. The problem is that around here, the people who are the big dreamers have little or no financial support and experience to make it reality. Lots of guys dream, but it takes guts and good business acumen to realize the vision.

What I can't stomach is when people won't accept reality, i.e. when a project is pitched in the city and we have morons spewing off from their ass, complaining that it doesn't meet their expectations or accusing the people of being liars, crooks, mafiosi, stupid, etc.
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