ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Seattle is a much denser city... All of the close-in intown neighborhoods are dense af.

[One ATLien]

Originally Posted by DNR

I know this is off-topic from recent posts, but just wondering...

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...-is-shrinking/

"Seattle is again crane capital of America...with 62"

Just when I think Atlanta is going "Gang-Busters" with construction cranes, I see that we are not even on the short list of major cities with the highest construction activity.
Even though this article is from late January, I do not understand where these other cities are getting their seemingly endless commercial and residential growth. Atlanta is a major Capitol City of an ever-growing Southeastern United States, shouldn't we be at least on the list? I am extremely happy about what seems like almost unprecedented growth, but why are we not seeing the same growth, especially in the office sector like other cities?

Not every online list is accurate. Atlanta has more cranes then some of those cities on the list.. and so does Miami, they are just not counted for some reason. As for Seattle, I remember looking up development progress for the city, and they are definitely building alot of high rises, significantly more then Atlanta for sure at the moment. Anyway for some reason things happening in Atlanta don't seem to be officially recognized like other cities in the country, development in this city seems to be more secretive then others from what I have noticed, don't know why, part of the development culture I guess.

[jsvh]

No real new info but more buzz about the Gulch redevelopment: Sources: Hawks negotiating for land near Philips Arena

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jsvh

No real new info but more buzz about the Gulch redevelopment: Sources: Hawks negotiating for land near Philips Arena

I am hearing the CNN Center redevelopment maybe apart of the announcement. Time Warner recently sold their interest in the Omni hotel that netted them $100 Million. Also, the zoning to allow lighted digital billboards related to this project. Announcement by next Friday.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

I'd take that article with a grain of salt though. Miami, Houston, or Dallas don't make the list either lol. Phoenix made the list with 5 cranes...Midtown Atlanta has about 20 cranes alone and we can see this with our own eyes.

The map says it's from the RLB Crane Index (whatever that is) and it seems to only include cities with RLB offices.

I'd guess we have 30-40 cranes in Atlanta, but zero RLB offices

[Omaharocks]

^ Yes, that article was discredited when it came out months ago. Atlanta has posted similar population growth rates as places like Seattle, Austin etc and has seen a comparable number of major residential projects to those cities.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

^ Yes, that article was discredited when it came out months ago. Atlanta has posted similar population growth rates as places like Seattle, Austin etc and has seen a comparable number of major residential projects to those cities.

Indeed. People need to chill with the idea that Atlanta isn't keeping up with other big cities in terms of new multifamily development.

Here are the stats that matter:

https://www.census.gov/construction/...t/tb3u2016.txt

Census Bureau multifamily housing starts. Collecting good data is damned expensive, and only a few outfits can afford to do it and give it out for free.

Here are some pertinent cities (number of units in multifamily structures with 5 or more units):

New York 30,364
Dallas 25,517
Los Angeles 21,213
Seattle 15,085
Atlanta 13,107
Washington 12,207
Miami 11,734
Denver 11,214
Chicago 11,032
San Francisco 9,585
Phoenix 9,579
Houston 9,054
Orlando 8,609
Austin 8,296
Boston 7,170

We've got nothing to complain about.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Indeed. People need to chill with the idea that Atlanta isn't keeping up with other big cities in terms of new multifamily development.

Here are the stats that matter:

https://www.census.gov/construction/...t/tb3u2016.txt

Census Bureau multifamily housing starts. Collecting good data is damned expensive, and only a few outfits can afford to do it and give it out for free.

Here are some pertinent cities (number of units in multifamily structures with 5 or more units):

New York 30,364
Dallas 25,517
Los Angeles 21,213
Seattle 15,085
Atlanta 13,107
Washington 12,207
Miami 11,734
Denver 11,214
Chicago 11,032
San Francisco 9,585
Phoenix 9,579
Houston 9,054
Orlando 8,609
Austin 8,296
Boston 7,170

We've got nothing to complain about.

Thanks, I was wondering about that exact metric and you found it. New units per 100,000 residents according to MSA population estimates:

Austin           403

Seattle          397

Denver           393

Dallas           353

Orlando          353

Atlanta          226

Phoenix          205

San Francisco    205

Washington       199

Miami            193

Los Angeles      159

New York         151

Boston           150

Houston          134

Chicago          116

[MdtwnATL]

Originally Posted by (four 0 four)

Really!? You would be in favor of large, bright, flashing billboards in Midtown? The neighborhood already is an arts district, I don't see where Vegasy/Times Squarey billboards would enhance that.

VS. a giant bleak gray lifeless concrete wall? You bet your ass.

[scania]

Originally Posted by (four 0 four)

Really!? You would be in favor of large, bright, flashing billboards in Midtown? The neighborhood already is an arts district, I don't see where Vegasy/Times Squarey billboards would enhance that.

I personally think it would be a great idea. It would lure people to get out on the streets. I'm not sure what cities you've been to...but Midtown doesn't have a true arts district vibe by any means. I'm not saying that it needs to have one. But, the bright lights would definitely bring some night energy to the area. At the end of the day, most people never even heard of Midtown...something drastic, but with style can help the momentum of the area.

[Libertarian]

Midtown day or night feels like a fairly dense albeit upscale residential district and needs more vibe. I hate the billboards though; them billboard boys are licking their chops. Some minimal graphics and neon would be nice.

[One ATLien]

Originally Posted by Libertarian

Midtown day or night feels like a fairly dense albeit upscale residential district and needs more vibe. I hate the billboards though; them billboard boys are licking their chops. Some minimal graphics and neon would be nice.

I agree minimal graphics and neon would be a nice addition to midtown, let downtown be the flashy district, and midtown be its own thing. Once Colony square is redeveloped along with some other projects, midtown's dynamic will change drastically, it is basically missing a critical mass of retail and restaurant space, and that is all in the works now. In just a couple of years midtown will feel like a whole new area, a lot more vibrant.

[ATL_J]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

I've all but wondered the same thing as well. We had the 2nd highest job growth in absolute terms between April 2016 and April 2017 wth only Dallas ahead, yet our office construction rates are mediocre at best. Rents continue to rise at historic levels, yet office construction remains at a low. it's odd and strange.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/metro.nr0.htm

There is a lot of office under construction, I suppose its just spread out so it doesn't feel like a lot. In Midtown alone you have 1.68 million SF being built between NCR, Coda, and 725 Ponce. I suppose why you're not seeing more, however, is the market was very over built prior, we still have quarters at times with negative abortion rates, new construction is very expensive and requires unique circumstances to come together and office is susceptible to trends as well - telecommuting, more efficiency per worker, less space needed per worker, etc. all contribute to a lower need for office square footage compared to the past.

[Frankster87]

Originally Posted by ATL_J

There is a lot of office under construction, I suppose its just spread out so it doesn't feel like a lot. In Midtown alone you have 1.68 million SF being built between NCR, Coda, and 725 Ponce. I suppose why you're not seeing more, however, is the market was very over built prior, we still have quarters at times with negative abortion rates, new construction is very expensive and requires unique circumstances to come together and office is susceptible to trends as well - telecommuting, more efficiency per worker, less space needed per worker, etc. all contribute to a lower need for office square footage compared to the past.

Negative abortion rates??? They're here!!!

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by MdtwnATL

VS. a giant bleak gray lifeless concrete wall? You bet your ass.

The DRC shouldn't be allowing "giant, bleak, gray lifeless concrete walls" in the first place. That being said they are treating the "Icon Midtown" project with a Hense mural, but the last thing needed in Midtown is digital billboards blaring light into a nearby office or residential tower.

The downtown district is allowing the digital billboards because they want to open up opportunities with interactive and artful installations to address mostly Portman's buildings that poorly address the urban fabric.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

The map says it's from the RLB Crane Index (whatever that is) and it seems to only include cities with RLB offices.

I'd guess we have 30-40 cranes in Atlanta, but zero RLB offices

As usual the south gets a poke in the eye. Nothing in Dallas, Houston, Austin, Atlanta or Miami.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by scania

...... At the end of the day, most people never even heard of Midtown...something drastic, but with style can help the momentum of the area.

"Most people never even heard of Midtown" would be....?

Just wondering where these alternative facts are coming from because most of NYC's liveliest places are miles away from Times Square. Billboards don't create livability - they're a gimmick to lure tourists to Times Square - but once you live in NYC you avoid Times Square at all costs because of the nuisance of tourists and billboards.

Midtown doesn't need digital billboards to "liven it up". It has a lot going for it already - just look at how the West Peachtree corridor is starting to transform with retail, restaurants, and shops/services opening up on both sides of the street.

What Midtown needs is a balance of service retailers and restaurants. The boutique concept for the Midtown Mile failed miserably because it was a gimmick that didn't truly support the neighborhood's needs. The QT convenience store alone (as unglamorous as it may be) was a step in the right direction.

[Frankster87]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

"Most people never even heard of Midtown" would be....?

Just wondering where these alternative facts are coming from because most of NYC's liveliest places are miles away from Times Square. Billboards don't create livability - they're a gimmick to lure tourists to Times Square - but once you live in NYC you avoid Times Square at all costs because of the nuisance of tourists and billboards.

Midtown doesn't need digital billboards to "liven it up". It has a lot going for it already - just look at how the West Peachtree corridor is starting to transform with retail, restaurants, and shops/services opening up on both sides of the street.

What Midtown needs is a balance of service retailers and restaurants. The boutique concept for the Midtown Mile failed miserably because it was a gimmick that didn't truly support the neighborhood's needs. The QT convenience store alone (as unglamorous as it may be) was a step in the right direction.

Ace Hardware has been wonderful for the neighborhood too. I go there way more than I got to Home Depot.

[GTdan]

It appears 208 12th St is progressing. I was beginning to think this one was dead, but a new permit was submitted this week.


source: http://www.midtownatl.com/business/development-tour

[Hokiehaven]

Originally Posted by One ATLien

I agree minimal graphics and neon would be a nice addition to midtown, let downtown be the flashy district, and midtown be its own thing. Once Colony square is redeveloped along with some other projects, midtown's dynamic will change drastically, it is basically missing a critical mass of retail and restaurant space, and that is all in the works now. In just a couple of years midtown will feel like a whole new area, a lot more vibrant.

This is very true, I think once you see Colony Square redevelop, things will change. On a sidenote, Midtown has seen at least three restaurants either open or opening in these three weeks. Alta has two in there and then the Canteen, GT's Krog, these are things that Midtown has desperately needed and are a start to make it even more public social, that will develop a vibe.

Wherever lights go, it needs to not just be more ads, nobody cares for that, do something artistic. People like that and that draws crowds.

Something similar in mindset to the Singapore trees would be a smart move.