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  #2201  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 3:53 PM
PhiLaw PhiLaw is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
It always annoys me when I see Boston ahead of Philly on a list like this. Really? Boston? I know it's kinda silly, but it's one of my pet peeves.

To me, Boston is Philly's truest rival among East Coast cities (and not NYC or DC) when it comes to employment growth, tourism, conventions, business development, Eds and Meds, etc., and Philly has such a superior geographic location, and other comparable or potentially superior assets (including cultural assets, historic and characterful neighborhoods and housing stock, etc.). Yet Boston seems to get so much better press and media coverage nationally and internationally.

Again, just one of my personal hot buttons.
Agreed. Very similar dynamics between Boston and Philly. Number of University students, Eds/Meds, urban landscape, historical neighborhoods, etc.

But remember, one's initial inclination is to lament Boston being ahead of Philly in many rankings because Boston's population is almost 1 million less than that of Philly's. What we must keep in mind is that the Metro area is almost the same, Boston being a few hundred thousand less. Thus, we shouldn't feel that bad when a city with an ostensibly much lower population beats us out on a few rankings.

Boston's demographics are changing rapidly. They are transitioning to a majority affluent white population to a majority immigrant/non-white and established population. Boston and Philly are becoming increasingly similar.
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  #2202  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 4:05 PM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
Agreed. Very similar dynamics between Boston and Philly. Number of University students, Eds/Meds, urban landscape, historical neighborhoods, etc.

But remember, one's initial inclination is to lament Boston being ahead of Philly in many rankings because Boston's population is almost 1 million less than that of Philly's. What we must keep in mind is that the Metro area is almost the same, Boston being a few hundred thousand less. Thus, we shouldn't feel that bad when a city with an ostensibly much lower population beats us out on a few rankings.

Boston's demographics are changing rapidly. They are transitioning to a majority affluent white population to a majority immigrant/non-white and established population. Boston and Philly are becoming increasingly similar.

This is true, esp on the latter part.

One thing that Boston does do better than Philly is retain more well educated folks from their schools and has a better tech/research incubator (philly ins't bad but could better, esp on tech) - we could learn from Boston in this regard.

Also their schools have a better Int'l appeal - Philly is moving that way which is good (still room to improve) - but to the post you replied; well - maybe is more kudos for Boston really and maybe a little good rivalry ins't a bad thing...
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  #2203  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 4:10 PM
Larry King Larry King is offline
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Enough about Boston

boring people
boring food
shitty beer
horrible weather
tiny city
not hip
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  #2204  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 4:13 PM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is online now
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Originally Posted by PhiLaw View Post
But remember, one's initial inclination is to lament Boston being ahead of Philly in many rankings because Boston's population is almost 1 million less than that of Philly's. What we must keep in mind is that the Metro area is almost the same, Boston being a few hundred thousand less. Thus, we shouldn't feel that bad when a city with an ostensibly much lower population beats us out on a few rankings.
I understand that, and take it fully into account even during my irrational meltdowns over this. I read this to be a list of metro areas (as opposed to within city limits), but it's still annoying given the similar sizes of metro areas.

And don't get me started on a pure apples-to-apples comparison of urban areas and neighborhoods, where Philly has so much more than Beantown both actually and potentially. But as you say, the times they are a-changin'.

We just need to get Philly promoted better in the national and international media--another pet peeve of mine ("The place that loves you back"--really??? ).
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  #2205  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 7:03 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Not to change the subject, but whatever happened to Waterfront Square? Did that just finally die? I haven't seen or heard anything for maybe 4-5 years? Did the developer just give up on the last 2 towers? Forgive me, for being ignorant about this, and maybe living under a rock. I'm sure it was announced somewhere, and I just missed it. I just thought with all of these proposals lately for high rise apartments in the city, that this project would move forward or come back to life.
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  #2206  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 7:13 PM
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Aaamazarite Aaamazarite is offline
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Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly View Post
Not to change the subject, but whatever happened to Waterfront Square? Did that just finally die? I haven't seen or heard anything for maybe 4-5 years? Did the developer just give up on the last 2 towers? Forgive me, for being ignorant about this, and maybe living under a rock. I'm sure it was announced somewhere, and I just missed it. I just thought with all of these proposals lately for high rise apartments in the city, that this project would move forward or come back to life.
The Delaware's allure remains strong, though, and future demand for river views may mean Waterfront Square's last two structures rise someday.

"It will happen at some point," Grasso said, "although it may not look like the original - low-rise buildings instead of towers."


http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-2...sociates-condo
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  #2207  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 7:16 PM
mmikeyphilly mmikeyphilly is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post
The Delaware's allure remains strong, though, and future demand for river views may mean Waterfront Square's last two structures rise someday.

"It will happen at some point," Grasso said, "although it may not look like the original - low-rise buildings instead of towers."


http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-2...sociates-condo
aah, Thank you Aaamazarite, I will read this further...Thanks again!
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  #2208  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 9:14 PM
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Cro Burnham Cro Burnham is offline
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Originally Posted by mmikeyphilly View Post
Not to change the subject, but whatever happened to Waterfront Square? Did that just finally die?
If you had a big chunk of money to blow on a home in Philly, how far down your list would WFS be? It will be some time before that location is anything but a slightly improved post-industrial wasteland. What's there now is purely a product of bubble economics.
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  #2209  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 10:03 PM
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relnahe relnahe is offline
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Originally Posted by EastSideHBG View Post

Two development plans rattling Radnor residents

"We all moved here to have a suburban lifestyle," said Tish Long, a resident who started the group Friends to Preserve Radnor. Being so close to each other, she said, the proposed projects are "going to create a very urban landscape that many of us don't want."
The irony of this is that Radnor is as urban, if not more, than a lot of American cities. Why would you move there then? These NIMBy's are the worst.


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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
It always annoys me when I see Boston ahead of Philly on a list like this. Really? Boston? I know it's kinda silly, but it's one of my pet peeves.
I can answer that easily. While All these big eastern cities are close to one another, Boston is the only one that is really remote and removed from the others. From a business standpoint...this is a good thing. Businesses and major retailers want a presence in an area. Philadelphia is so close to NYC and other spots that they overlook it. Boston is by far the biggest city in New England. Companies want to be in every region and to many businesses Philly is just too close to NYC. A good example is Minneapolis/St Paul and Pittsburgh. They are very remote cities but companies want to have that presence so they go to those cities. For a place like Minneapolis, a major retailer will want to be there because there is nothing directly west of there until you hit Seattle.
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  #2210  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 10:56 PM
Kidphilly Kidphilly is offline
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  #2211  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 11:38 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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The plans call for a 25 floor building. Excited for this one! Pearl does great work. Both the Sansom and the Granary are beautiful buildings.
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  #2212  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 3:09 AM
Philly Fan Philly Fan is online now
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I can answer that easily. While All these big eastern cities are close to one another, Boston is the only one that is really remote and removed from the others. From a business standpoint...this is a good thing. Businesses and major retailers want a presence in an area. Philadelphia is so close to NYC and other spots that they overlook it. Boston is by far the biggest city in New England. Companies want to be in every region and to many businesses Philly is just too close to NYC. A good example is Minneapolis/St Paul and Pittsburgh. They are very remote cities but companies want to have that presence so they go to those cities. For a place like Minneapolis, a major retailer will want to be there because there is nothing directly west of there until you hit Seattle.
Perhaps, but I'm not talking about retailers or regional offices (of which Philly has its fair share, incidentally). I think that's just one small piece of the puzzle, compared to historical and cultural tourism, convention business, Eds and Meds, the high-tech and creative economies, etc., not to mention THE most convenient location in the country in terms of access to population (the megalopolis) and the financial (NYC) and governmental (DC) capitals of the nation.
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  #2213  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 12:26 PM
McBane McBane is online now
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I think, as much as possible, people like to be in the thick of things, rather than being "convenient to xyz". Which is why businesses - depending on their market - choose either NYC or DC for their HQ or mid-atlantic regional office and there isn't an office explosion near 30th St Station (FMC and Cira Centre aside, there is still a ton of open land nearby). It's also why people would rather be IN Center City than Waterfront Sq.

...speaking of which, I could care less if they never built another building on that site. But for lord's sake, PLEASE finish those damn roofs!
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  #2214  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 1:56 PM
Insoluble Insoluble is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
The plans call for a 25 floor building. Excited for this one! Pearl does great work. Both the Sansom and the Granary are beautiful buildings.
Nice! That sounds like a great development. It's great to see this stretch of Chestnut to the west of Rittenhouse getting so much development. Between this, 2116 Chestnut (Old Hillman Center), and 2021 Chestnut Street (Old YWCA) that's a lot of added units to this two-block stretch. I'm excited to see it all happen.
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  #2215  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 2:16 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by Philly Fan View Post
I understand that, and take it fully into account even during my irrational meltdowns over this. I read this to be a list of metro areas (as opposed to within city limits), but it's still annoying given the similar sizes of metro areas.

And don't get me started on a pure apples-to-apples comparison of urban areas and neighborhoods, where Philly has so much more than Beantown both actually and potentially. But as you say, the times they are a-changin'.

We just need to get Philly promoted better in the national and international media--another pet peeve of mine ("The place that loves you back"--really??? ).
Would you take Rittenhouse over Back Bay? Society Hill over Beacon Hill? How about Walnut Street over Newbury Street. How about the Gallery over the Prudential Center? How about market west over their financial district? How about Independence Mall over Fanueil Hall?

No, no, no, no, no, and no. Boston does a lot of things a lot better than Philly, and to dismiss it entirely is useless--as we could learn a lot from them. Chiefly, they learned a long time ago that living in the city should be a privilege and a pleasure (manicured streets, buried wires, street cleaning, greenery, festiveness) and not tolerable up until you have kids, get married, and can get the f&&k out (Philly).
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  #2216  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 2:30 PM
Nightman Nightman is offline
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Would you take Rittenhouse over Back Bay? Society Hill over Beacon Hill? How about Walnut Street over Newbury Street. How about the Gallery over the Prudential Center? How about market west over their financial district? How about Independence Mall over Fanueil Hall?

No, no, no, no, no, and no. Boston does a lot of things a lot better than Philly, and to dismiss it entirely is useless--as we could learn a lot from them. Chiefly, they learned a long time ago that living in the city should be a privilege and a pleasure (manicured streets, buried wires, street cleaning, greenery, festiveness) and not tolerable up until you have kids, get married, and can get the f&&k out (Philly).

Totally agree Londonee. I love Philly the much as the next person but to say that Philly is better or in better shape than Boston is way off base. Spend a weekend up there in the spring/summer and get back to me. I would say if you break down the area of the neighborhoods that you would actually want to visit in each downtown, boston may have a larger mass. So I am not buying the boston is a small town argument.
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  #2217  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 2:36 PM
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summersm343 summersm343 is offline
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Would you take Rittenhouse over Back Bay? Society Hill over Beacon Hill? How about Walnut Street over Newbury Street. How about the Gallery over the Prudential Center? How about market west over their financial district? How about Independence Mall over Fanueil Hall?

No, no, no, no, no, and no. Boston does a lot of things a lot better than Philly, and to dismiss it entirely is useless--as we could learn a lot from them. Chiefly, they learned a long time ago that living in the city should be a privilege and a pleasure (manicured streets, buried wires, street cleaning, greenery, festiveness) and not tolerable up until you have kids, get married, and can get the f&&k out (Philly).
I would take Rittenhouse over Backbay. Society Hill over Beacon Hill. Philly's Financial District over Boston's. Weird comparison between Independence Mall and Fanueil Hall? Wouldn't you compare Reading Terminal Market to Fanueil Hall... in which I would take Reading Terminal Market over Fanueil Hall.

Where I would take Beantown over Philly? Prudential Center over Gallery for sure... at least for now. And Newbury Street over Walnut, it just has more than Walnut.

That may be YOUR opinion, but it's not everyone's. Boston is certainly more polished than Philly, but not everyone wants to get the f&&k out like you claim. I love living in Philly, and hope the day NEVER comes where I have to move back to the burbs. I'd rather stay in the city and be a part of the renaissance. Help the city change to the likes of Boston and San Francisco instead of being one of the outsiders in the burbs looking into the city, criticizing Philly and wondering why it's not like those cities when they're not contributing a damn thing to change it.
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  #2218  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 2:43 PM
VikingDutchman VikingDutchman is offline
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
Would you take Rittenhouse over Back Bay? Society Hill over Beacon Hill? How about Walnut Street over Newbury Street. How about the Gallery over the Prudential Center? How about market west over their financial district? How about Independence Mall over Fanueil Hall?

No, no, no, no, no, and no. Boston does a lot of things a lot better than Philly, and to dismiss it entirely is useless--as we could learn a lot from them. Chiefly, they learned a long time ago that living in the city should be a privilege and a pleasure (manicured streets, buried wires, street cleaning, greenery, festiveness) and not tolerable up until you have kids, get married, and can get the f&&k out (Philly).
Having now lived there for awhile, Boston has two major problems to my mind:

1. It's physical landscape is much more broken up by highways than Philly's. Comparing apples to apples, highways do not generally assault a pedestrian's enjoyment of anywhere in Center City, and 676 is easily passed over with little irritation. Yes going further afield you have issues, but that's true of any city in the US. In Boston, highways, on-ramps, and other major intrusions of autocentricity assault the pedestrian throughout the city's core. The Big Dig is kind of a local joke, since all the empty space and park above it still goes a long way towards dividing the waterfront neighborhoods from the rest of the city. Not an issue for some I guess but something that really irritates me.

2. However much of a "pleasure" Boston may be, it is also ludicrously unaffordable. That means that no, most people, not even many people, can have their families and stay in the city. It also makes the city monotonous and dull. For example, it often seems that about 90% of the restaurants here have the same mehish pub food menu. No doubt because rents are so high chefs need to appeal to the lowest common denominator and are discouraged from experimentation. Its a rich white city that is making itself ever richer and whiter, and that process eventually turns your city into a colossal museum: something to be looked at, admired, but not lived in or appreciated. Beacon Hill has already achieved this status, Back Bay is well on its way, etc... Even Cambridge, which I find a generally unsightly place, which even on Mass Ave is dominated by ugly squat 2-ish story buildings, autocentricity, etc... is ridiculously expensive.

Yes Boston is clean, orderly, etc... But it's also eery in its lifelessness. If Epcot had a Philadelphia exhibit, it would look like Boston.

Not that Philly doesn't have serious, damning problems.

But god help us if we look to Boston for the answers.
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  #2219  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 3:35 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I would take Rittenhouse over Backbay. Society Hill over Beacon Hill. Philly's Financial District over Boston's. Weird comparison between Independence Mall and Fanueil Hall? Wouldn't you compare Reading Terminal Market to Fanueil Hall... in which I would take Reading Terminal Market over Fanueil Hall.

Where I would take Beantown over Philly? Prudential Center over Gallery for sure... at least for now. And Newbury Street over Walnut, it just has more than Walnut.

That may be YOUR opinion, but it's not everyone's. Boston is certainly more polished than Philly, but not everyone wants to get the f&&k out like you claim. I love living in Philly, and hope the day NEVER comes where I have to move back to the burbs. I'd rather stay in the city and be a part of the renaissance. Help the city change to the likes of Boston and San Francisco instead of being one of the outsiders in the burbs looking into the city, criticizing Philly and wondering why it's not like those cities when they're not contributing a damn thing to change it.
Jeesh, i feel like I'm breaking the news to you guys here--all in defense of a city that i don't care that much about. But Boston is, globally, an admired and respected city. Philly is not. There are reasons for that.

And to the crux of my original point--we can learn from those reasons. Boston is a great city and a few of the posters were tearing it down and i think that's a mistake--there's much to learn and admire from our neighbor to the north.
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  #2220  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 3:40 PM
tsarstruck tsarstruck is offline
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Sure, it's only 18 jobs, but one more piece of data to support the narrative that Philly is attracting companies from the suburbs:

Quote:
As part of that growth, Saxbys will move its headquarters this summer from Broomall, Delaware County, to rented space in Center City for 18 employees. Bayer said he's eyeing three different locations west of Broad Street, between Market and Locust streets.

"I absolutely love it here," the Chicago native said, noting Philly is a magnet for the kind of entrepreneurial talent he likes to hire.

"We have four new people starting on Monday and three of them probably wouldn't have accepted the job if we weren't moving in to the city," he said.
http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...Starbucks.html
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