LOS ANGELES | Transportation News & Discussion

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by bmfarley

Crenshaw is another weird one... it ends at Imperial/Aviation? Santa Ana Branch... is that a Metrolink expansion?

Crenshaw LRT will connect with the Harbor Subdivision ROW to LAX. But I believe it should eventually continue South to the Del Amo Mall, like a proposal by Damien Goodmon (a local transit advocate).

The Santa Ana Branch is LRT.

[pesto]

405: This is not new news, but last I heard MTA was only saying they were looking at both rail and bus options and the VA Purple Line stop had to be large enough to accommodate substantial intermodal transfers. I would guess there is a push for rail but it's unclear where the money would come from for the moment.

Informally, they felt they could work with the VA to get some significant space there, but that remains to be seen.

[bmfarley]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

Crenshaw LRT will connect with the Harbor Subdivision ROW to LAX. But I believe it should eventually continue South to the Del Amo Mall, ....

Yeah. My point was that nothing is indicated on the map south of Imperial/Aviation.

[Kingofthehill]

Great, even more silly trolleys to suburbs..

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

Great, even more silly trolleys to suburbs..

Wait, you're comparing the little cars that stroll down San Francisco to Light-rail cars?

What's silly about them?

[dktshb]

The areas of focus that would greatly improve things for this city should first and foremost be getting the purple line to UCLA, connecting the green line to LAX (and not a mile from LAX but really connecting it along with making it not necessary to switch to the Blue line to continue to downtown or Long Beach) and the completion of the downtown regional connector. I think if the city could focus on these three things first the rail transit would definitely be substantially more reputable and funtional in most people's eyes. After that complete Expo line phase 2 with a short connector to the purple line (somehow). We can worry about silly suburban extensions after these things are completed.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by dktshb

connecting the green line to LAX

After it hits LAX, it should go along Sepulveda and then PCH to Santa Monica.

We can worry about silly suburban extensions after these things are completed.

There is nothing silly about the Foothill extension. LA is a polycentric city. Making a spider-like downtown focused system is a mistake. We need a GRID.

[dktshb]

What's the current ridership of the gold line to Pasadena? More importantly what is the population density of areas farther east? The areas of focus should first be what is most important to the city of Los Angeles. Access and connectivity to LAX and Downtown along with extending the Purple Line to at least UCLA are much more important.

[Kingofthehill]

You're only saying it's not silly because you live in/near that godforsaken place.

Funneling our rather limited funds towards running LRT to the burbs (and don't say they're not; having a 5-block pre-war urban center still doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavor) - where the advantages held by trains quickly diminish due to the sheer length/distances involved - just doesn't make sense. It's a lose-lose situation: for one, who's going to ride it? Go to the Sierra Madre Villa terminus and tell me how many people you see waiting for buses heading east. Yeah, thought so. And even if there was ridership, who's going to want to ride from Azusa or Claremont to DTLA? That corridor is better suited by an upgraded Metrolink; electrified, fully grade separated, and running with increased frequencies.

We're better off spending our precious little resources are more feasible projects, those that will guarantee a higher return, instead of pandering to suburbanite politicians in the San Gabriel/Foothill Valleys. The Vermont Subway, DTC, Pink Line, Purple Line to West LA, etc., all make much more sense than this.

P.S: If you were really concerned about polycentricity, you'd be advocating for rail to places like Burbank and Glendale, and not bedroom communities along the 210.

[Quixote]

Guys, this 30/10 plan is strictly within Measure R parameters. Without the inclusion of pork projects such as the Foothill and South Bay Extensions, Measure R wouldn't have gotten the necessary two-thirds majority vote. Esteemed projects like the Purple Line extension to Brentwood and Regional Connector would be locally-unfunded proposals. We can't reallocate the funds and violate the legislative terms. The sooner we get these Measure R projects in motion (which, if all goes as planned, will happen within the next 3 years), the sooner we can begin studying and planning the more effective and worthwhile rail routes.

I'm actually optimistic that within the next 3-5 years, projects such as the Purple Line extensions to Santa Monica and West Hollywood, Harbor Subdivision and Vermont Corridors, Silver and Yellow Lines, etc. will become more politically viable. I mean, think about it. The SGV will have their Foothill Extension and other politically-motivated efforts like the Crenshaw and South Bay projects will be underway. If the 30/10 plan goes accordingly, so will every other Measure R project. That clears the table for the next mayor (hopefully Garcetti), who can carry the momentum Villaraigosa built into his/her administration. If Villaraigosa can come through with his 30/10 plan, then it will be a lot easier to pass another transit tax measure in the future because there will naturally be greater demand for more rail. It's only a matter of time before we repeal that Prop A & C ban, especially since everybody wants subways nowadays. Also, there won't be as many projects to build, so I think we'll start to see a renewed interest in expanding our HRT system beyond the current plans.

In the meantime, you guys should be channeling your energy into making sure a Purple Line station is built at Barrington instead of the VA Hospital. And God forbid $2.2 billion is spent on a futile Gold Line extension along Washington Blvd.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

You're only saying it's not silly because you live in/near that godforsaken place.

No i'm saying that because it makes sense. And for the record, I live nearly 4 miles from the Irwindale station.

Funneling our rather limited funds towards running LRT to the burbs (and don't say they're not; having a 5-block pre-war urban center still doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavor) -

Yes it does; have you ever been on the Foothill Transit 187? I use it to get to Citrus College. It's almost always full.

for one, who's going to ride it?

Trust me. If it's extended to at LEAST Citrus College, A LOT of students WILL use it.

Go to the Sierra Madre Villa terminus and tell me how many people you see waiting for buses heading east. Yeah, thought so. And even if there was ridership, who's going to want to ride from Azusa or Claremont to DTLA? That corridor is better suited by an upgraded Metrolink; electrified, fully grade separated, and running with increased frequencies.

No, it isn't. If anything, the ridership would be lower. Not everyone that takes the Gold Line HAS to go to LA.....

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

The Vermont Subway, DTC, Pink Line, Purple Line to West LA, etc., all make much more sense than this.

I didn't say they aren't. What i'm saying is that it's worthwhile.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

I'm actually optimistic that within the next 3-5 years, projects such as the Purple Line extensions to Santa Monica and West Hollywood, Harbor Subdivision and Vermont Corridors, Silver and Yellow Lines

The Yellow line should go through downtown Glendale via Glendale/Brand, go West on the 134, North on the 5, and connect with the Chandler bikeway ROW at the Burbank Metrolink station.

I don't think the space is there enough room on that ROW for Metrolink, CHSR, AND LRT.

If the 30/10 plan goes accordingly, so will every other Measure R project. That clears the table for the next mayor (hopefully Garcetti), who can carry the momentum Villaraigosa built into his/her administration. If Villaraigosa can come through with his 30/10 plan, then it will be a lot easier to pass another transit tax measure in the future because there will naturally be greater demand for more rail.

I will literally be partying if the 30/10 plan is approved by Washington.

It's only a matter of time before we repeal that Prop A & C ban, especially since everybody wants subways nowadays. Also, there won't be as many projects to build, so I think we'll start to see a renewed interest in expanding our HRT system beyond the current plans.

i'm surprised Prop A & C is still alive. It should've been repealed the same year Measure R was passed.

In the meantime, you guys should be channeling your energy into making sure a Purple Line station is built at Barrington instead of the VA Hospital. And God forbid $2.2 billion is spent on a futile Gold Line extension along Washington Blvd.

The only positive outcome of whatever happens to GLEE Phase II is that it sets the stage for a Purple Line extension down 6th/Whittier to Sante Fe Springs Ave.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by StethJeff

I don't see the point behind a line that goes all the way to Santa Ana and doesn't pass by Disneyland, Angel Stadium, The Pond, UCI Medical Center, etc. Or is the hope here that OC will eventually develop it's own rail that will address this?

The ROW forks eastward between Cerritos and Katella, eventually leading all the way to Disneyland. Since OCTA is planning ARTIC, I wouldn't be surprised to see a branch to Disneyland and the rest of the Platinum Triangle.

The beauty about the West Santa Ana Branch Corridor is that it can provide both local and regional service (like the Harbor Subdivision) because the ROW is so wide. Metrolink's stop spacing is too wide and its headways too long. It also runs along an industrial corridor, whereas the old PE ROW cuts through neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by bmfarley

That map is confusing. So is the Metro site. I-405 project is transit/rail????? Not that I know of. Crenshaw is another weird one... it ends at Imperial/Aviation? Santa Ana Branch... is that a Metrolink expansion?

The Measure R plan doesn't specify a mode for the I-405 project, although it has been planned as BRT in the past. Transit advocates began voicing their support for a rail line during meetings for the Purple Line extension. What could possibly explain the 2038 date?

Crenshaw -- The constructed segment ends at Imperial/Aviation, but the line will continue farther south by sharing tracks with the Green Line.

[bmfarley]

Westside... or anyone else... so how does the 30/10 plan work. Yes, I know, build 30 years worth of rail projects in the next 10 years. Got that.

But, how is it pulled off? Financially?

Barrowing money you don't have just means more interest that needs to be paid back. And, the earlier you barrow... and longer timeline you need to pay back... this means more funding dedicated to payments on interest. Where's teh money going to come from to pay that? Is the theory than an infrastrucutre bank supported by the Federal government going to loan money at no interest... or lower than market rates... the plan?

[dktshb]

I guess I am just going to be an old man, if not long gone before we have a viable system. I can't get excited about the prospect of another decade of talks and studies before any real progress gets made.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by bmfarley

But, how is it pulled off? Financially?

Barrowing money you don't have just means more interest that needs to be paid back. And, the earlier you barrow... and longer timeline you need to pay back... this means more funding dedicated to payments on interest. Where's teh money going to come from to pay that? Is the theory than an infrastrucutre bank supported by the Federal government going to loan money at no interest... or lower than market rates... the plan?

IIRC, that's what's supposed to happen.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Westsidelife

The Measure R plan doesn't specify a mode for the I-405 project, although it has been planned as BRT in the past. Transit advocates began voicing their support for a rail line during meetings for the Purple Line extension. What could possibly explain the 2038 date?

A Purple Line extension North instead of Santa Monica is a mistake because it pretty much kills a full 405 corridor from Sylmar Metrolink to Long Beach. There's no way both a subway AND an LRT along the same Harbor Subdivision ROW is gonna happen. I like Damien Goodmon's plan for this.

If it was a completely grade-seperated LRT, it would run at 55 Mph, making the full trip in less than an hour, even when stops are considered.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by dktshb

I guess I am just going to be an old man, if not long gone before we have a viable system. I can't get excited about the prospect of another decade of talks and studies before any real progress gets made.

I dunno what you define as "real progress". But from an outsider's perspective, the fact that Metro just opened the Gold Line Eastside Extension, will soon open the Expo Line Phase I, and is irrevocably committed to building hundreds more miles of rail line, counts as progress.

The way Measure R works, I suppose Metro could issue bonds to be repaid with tax proceeds, but bonds have interest, so that means less money being spent on transit construction in the long run. Villaraigosa is schmoozing politicians in DC because they are the only people who might consider extending Metro a loan at super, super-low interest rates.

With the exception of possibly Denver, no other American city has the momentum towards transit construction that LA does.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I dunno what you define as "real progress". But from an outsider's perspective, the fact that Metro just opened the Gold Line Eastside Extension, will soon open the Expo Line Phase I, and is irrevocably committed to building hundreds more miles of rail line, counts as progress.

The truth is, it's been nearly 50 years since the last of the Red and Yellow cars were taken out, and almost half of that time was wasted doing nothing.

With the exception of possibly Denver, no other American city has the momentum towards transit construction that LA does.

I agree, but I think it could go even faster if NIMBYs just die off.

[202_Cyclist]

Westsidelife--

The ROW forks eastward between Cerritos and Katella, eventually leading all the way to Disneyland. Since OCTA is planning ARTIC, I wouldn't be surprised to see a branch to Disneyland and the rest of the Platinum Triangle.

The beauty about the West Santa Ana Branch Corridor is that it can provide both local and regional service (like the Harbor Subdivision) because the ROW is so wide. Metrolink's stop spacing is too wide and its headways too long. It also runs along an industrial corridor, whereas the old PE ROW cuts through neighborhoods.

Anaheim is considering three or four options for transit through the Platinum Triangle and Disneyland to the ARTIC facility. One option is a 3.5 mile monorail that would cost between $300M - $500M. I am a strong supporter of transit but this should be light-rail instead. At $500M, this would cost more than $140M per mile, nearly four times the cost of light-rail per mile. If Disney wants a shiny monorail to bring passengers from the high speed rail station to Disneyland, it should be Disney and not Orange County and CA taxpayers that pay for this. Inefficient squandering of scarce transit funds will make people in conservative Orange County more reluctant to pay for necessary transit investsments such as bus rapid transit to/from John Wayne airport or increased Metrolink frequencies. I emailed the project manager to write about my opposition to the monorail but I didn't receive any response. Here are three links about the proposal:

http://www.transitrideroc.com/2010/0...s-monorails-oh

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/a...rail-city.html

http://www.anaheim.net/images/articl...MasterPlan.pdf