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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 1:58 AM
van-island van-island is offline
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Japan will ruin anyone for North American transit systems.

Did you know that mode share for trains alone in Osaka is 50%?
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 3:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
80 km/h is the standard max. speed for most metro lines, even the HK MTR trains. The MK I's and Canada Line Rotems have a max. design speed of 80 km/h, the MK II's are at 90 km/h.
I have been on the MTR trains in HK, and they seem to go pretty darn fast underground. It almost feels faster than 80km/h. I didn't know that the standard max. speed for metro lines in general are at 80km's/hr. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:02 AM
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from wikipedia:






Manufacturer Metro Cammell, Alstom
Built at Washwood Heath, Birmingham, England
Constructed 1979 - 1989 (Phase 1 & 2), 1994 - 1998 (Phase 3)
Refurbishment 1998 - 2001
Number built 762
Formation 8 car set
Capacity 45 seats,
268 standing per car

Operator MTR
Line(s) served Kwun Tong Line
Tsuen Wan Line
Island Line
Tseung Kwan O Line
Disneyland Resort Line

Specifications
Width 3000 mm
Height 3700 mm
Floor height 1100 mm

Maximum speed 80 km/h (50 mph)
Acceleration 1.0 m/s2
Deceleration service: 1.0 m/s²
emergency 1.4 m/s2

Traction system GTO Chopper control with DC traction motors
Power output 85kW or 114 hp per motor
Voltage 1500 V DC overhead
Braking system(s) Regenerative blend with air brake
Safety system(s) ATC and ATP (All lines except Disneyland Resort Line)
SelTrac (Disneyland Resort Line)
Gauge 1,432 mm (4 ft 8⅜ in)
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
I have been on the MTR trains in HK, and they seem to go pretty darn fast underground. It almost feels faster than 80km/h. I didn't know that the standard max. speed for metro lines in general are at 80km's/hr. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
It feels fast because it's mostly in a tunnel, and the tunnels are very poorly lit unlike the ones in North America, and you don't have a relative sense of how fast you're going.

With that said, they don't have sharp turns...which means the trains don't slow down as much as SkyTrain.



Interestingly, Hong Kong's MTR is ordering ten 8-car trains from Bombardier, the Movia EMU:






Makes you wish we ordered from Bombardier for the Canada Line...
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:15 AM
usog usog is offline
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Well yeah I understand the top speed is only ~80km/h but the trains almost never go anywhere near that and I know the trains can pull out of the stations pretty quick...
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by usog View Post
Well yeah I understand the top speed is only ~80km/h but the trains almost never go anywhere near that and I know the trains can pull out of the stations pretty quick...
Well yes, the trains rarely reach 80 km/h....and that's why it's called the maximum design speed. If it travels any faster, you could imagine a cartoon train disintegrating while running along the track.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:19 AM
usog usog is offline
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lol. Well yeah but I swear the average isn't any more than half.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:21 AM
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^ you got that right!
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:25 AM
usog usog is offline
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Seriously some of the slow zones make no sense. The ones that pop to head are King George<->Surrey Central, Surrey Central<->Gateway, Columbia<->New West, parts of 22nd<->Edmonds, and Main<->Stadium. The first one isn't that bad but the last one goes to running speed most of the way I swear.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 5:40 AM
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Get Kevin Falcon on the case.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:03 AM
ssiguy ssiguy is offline
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I find the MK11 quite comfortable, bright, and {mercifully} much quieter than the MK1 cars. I think the SkyTrain goes a good speed and the stations are well spaced. I think the thing that makes SkyTrain seem a bit slower is that it's time for entry/entrance at the stations is longer than most systems. I've talked to other people who have used many other system and they have commented on that. A mere 10 seconds reduction at the stations results in a 3 minute savings form KG to Waterfront. That will certainly be more of an option when the new trains come on line this year which will double Expo capacity and thus reduce entry/exit times.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:05 PM
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I been to some system where the doors close within 10 seconds after opening.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:36 PM
Gordon Gordon is offline
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The 1st of the new mark2s (2car units for into service in late May.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:11 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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door spacing

Many of these "other" systems close the doors after 10 seconds because they have a driver who closes the doors when there's no one there.

Another thing that I noticed (in Osaka, at least) is that the door chimes ring AS the door is closing and not before, meaning people don't wait for the door chimes before boarding, they get on the nearest door.

Due to door spacing being different on MkII and MkI, it's pretty difficult to speed up the door closing time.

If you had standardized door positions, you could mark the floor and people would know where to stand. This includes marking where they SHOULDN'T STAND (in front of doors) so as not to block people who are exiting. I give people a dirty look when they're blocking the exit and generally go straight out, forcing them to the side. One guy in front me the other day shoulder-bumped someone standing in front (don't know if it was intentional) in passing. I followed up his bump with an under my breath: "come on people, let people off first"

I have seem some systems that mark the waiting area with two lines on either side of a door. It seems to work well.

I'm kind of a fan of the predictable door times, though. I like predictability in general.

Note: Doors generally stay open longer at some stations (Broadway, Metrotown, Commercial Drive...)

All this being said, I think at this point, crowded trains are a bigger issue than the train's speed. Removing seats and adding trains are great ways to increase capacity. I welcome the new Mark IIs and can't wait to see them in service. Anyone seen them yet? I suspect they'll roll them out on the M-Line when the Canada Line comes online.

edit: Thanks Gordon. Late May. Cool.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:26 PM
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I have always thought that they should have different door timings for different times of day. It seems that the doors stay open far too long late at night when very few people are at the stations.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:30 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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West Coast Express goes up to 115km/h in a few select stretches.

I felt exactly the same when I got back to Vancouver from a month in Tokyo, but I was fine afterwards. I think the main problem is that some of our stations are spaced too closely together, not so much the top speed of Skytrain but as long as you don't compare Vancouver to <insert city here>, Skytrain is perfect for Vancouver. Some of the members here go to Hong Kong every once in awhile and I've never heard them complain about Skytrain.

We could certainly be worse... like the *ahem*LRT*ahem* systems most American cities are getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vancity View Post
I have been on the MTR trains in HK, and they seem to go pretty darn fast underground. It almost feels faster than 80km/h. I didn't know that the standard max. speed for metro lines in general are at 80km's/hr. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I think underground sections makes anything seem fast. The underground portion of Edmonton's LRT seems fast even though it never exceeds 70km/h.
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:48 PM
nname nname is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKaz View Post
I think underground sections makes anything seem fast.
Yeah, when I go from Columbia to Sapperton station, I always thought the train is going really really fast inside the New West tunnel, but as soon as the train leaves the tunnel, I realized that it is just as fast as the other part of the system.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:54 PM
usog usog is offline
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If they managed to somehow get a next train-type display that includes whether its a MKI or MKII train, then they could also make floor markings that correspond with the train type. It probably wouldn't work otherwise because I doubt most people could tell the difference >.>"

And the timings are probably because almost all of our stations suffer from everyone entering the platform from one side so the distribution of people moving on and off trains is really off. You have almost everyone trying to pile in and out of a few cars while the others are sitting on their hands lol. God knows our system could use a really large overhaul/optimization.

Oh and if anyones noticed the new MKIIs have been sitting out next to the main track at the Edmonds depot.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 8:49 PM
DKaz DKaz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usog View Post
If they managed to somehow get a next train-type display that includes whether its a MKI or MKII train, then they could also make floor markings that correspond with the train type. It probably wouldn't work otherwise because I doubt most people could tell the difference >.>"
I was thinking of LED lights embedded into the floor telling people where to line up for the next train. Like Japan, the LEDs should be to the sides of the doors to get people to line up to the side of the doors to allow passengers to disembark before bording.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 11:44 PM
deasine deasine is offline
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Hate to wake you all up... but we are in Vancouver -___-"
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