TransLink, where's the Oyster?

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

A friend of mine, right after he arrived in Paris, was getting on the metro and had some stranger jump on his back and ride him through the gate like a horse.

I think the biggest thing we could do for our PoP system is change the way tickets are dealt. Right now I think it is ICBC that actually collects the money from tickets, and keeps it. I think that is why handing out tickets isn't a priority for Translink, they don't get the money. It's much more cost effective to just kick cheaters out and let them try again instead of wasting 15 minutes of police time to write up a ticket Translink doesn't see, and most people don't pay. ICBC can't do much to collect from you if you don't use a car (which a lot of transit cheaters don't have).

I think it was reported that only 8% of people who get a ticket, end up paying the ticket. 92% of people caught and issued a ticket, cheat the ticket! Why don't we take THAT disrespect for the rule of law more seriously?

If studies are correct, that means that 6 in 100 riders are cheating, and only 1 in 100 cheaters are caught, and only 8 in 100 caught cheaters pay. I think we can do better without the need for large 10' tall gates.

I think if police or staff could hand out penalty fares with instant payment and made punishments stiffer for repeat offenders, we would see a huge difference. Also, if the money collected by police when right back into funding the ticket checking, the fare ticketing system could probably turn a profit.

You could issue an on the spot ticket for $50 and the person could pay imediately to drop the mater, and if they don't you issue them a full citation of $200. And Imagine if dodging a couple of tickets resulted in a criminal conviction and a day in jail. How many people would start paying?

To me, enforcing laws to make people honorable is a better solution than huge gates we have to herd through like cattle to catch a couple extra hoodwinks.

Thats where people often go wrong. I would wager that over 90% of cheaters pay, and under 10% dont pay. However those that dont pay are already resigned to not paying and therefore will cheat more often (if not always) and therefore account for 90+% of the tickets issued. This would obviously skew the numbers and make it appear as if the system is not working and people are not paying their tickets, this however is absolutely wrong. It is impossible for the honor system with random fare checks to not work if implemented properly(and work much better than a fare gate system), and infact Translink based on what I see and read is doing a pretty good job. The only number that matters is the number of fare cheats as a percantage of commuters, not how many tickets arent paid. Tickets arent issued to be paid, their issued to discourage fare cheats and to keep the level of cheats at a optimum and manageable level.

The idea that the perception of safety will increase is wrong based on everything I have read, it is only a extremly short term gain which disapears quickly. Infact as far as I know properly run honour systems like our skytrain always are the safest systems, like our skytrain. It generarly is the fare gate systems that are unsafe as there is less of a human security presence on the trains and platforms. Our skytrain system is extremely safe and from what I remember always ranked as one of the safest systems while the fare cheat rate has always been comparable to fare gate systems while maintaining a flexible and efficient security force that costs a fraction to implement and maintain compared to fare gates.

Uninformed politicians trying to gain votes from uninformed voters and uninformed newspapers presenting facts incorrectly to make articles more interesting.
/rant

[BCPhil]

http://www.theprovince.com/Millions+...381/story.html

From the story:

*3% of people checked were given a ticket.
*through the end of June: 9,909 tickets handed out and 1,423 paid. There were 142 tickets partially paid and 6,829 unpaid — leaving $1.181-million in outstanding fines.
*In 2008, 14,400 tickets were handed out and 11,300 went unpaid, for an unpaid-fine total of $1.95 million
*Total fares evaded annually across the transit system ranged from $5.3 million to $9.5 million.

The story also touches on the fact that fare checks are resulting in people being arrested for other offenses (breach of probation, concealed weapons, narcotics) that gates wouldn't stop.

cornholio, you are probably right that a majority of the tickets that aren't paid are by a very small number of habitual abusers. So I think we are on the same page. Faregates aren't really going to stop a lot of the cheaters. We should really try enforcing laws we have and punish the cheaters properly instead of turning our Stations into fortified compounds.

Now I agree gates would be useful if we had a distance based system where you need to check out to calculate a fare and the gates would "remind" people to do that. But as long as a majority of users have monthly passes, I don't see the point of spending 10 times what we lose to the cheaters to not even catch them, but keep them away.

---------------------

Personal Anecdote:

When going to school I used to work in an electronics store in a mall. Corporate decided to install electronic sensors (like in every other store) at the entrance that would beep when someone tried to steal something. In the first couple of months they were installed, the store lost 4 times what it normally did to theft.

It was because the belief in the gates made the staff lazy and they weren't paying attention to people tampering with packages (and it was illegal to stop someone JUST because the beeper sounds, you still need to witness the actual theft with your own eyes). Not only was theft higher, but the store had to invest in the countermeasures (alarms, tags, demagnatizers). They were promptly removed and theft levels returned to normal.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

http://www.theprovince.com/Millions+...381/story.html

From the story:

*3% of people checked were given a ticket.
*through the end of June: 9,909 tickets handed out and 1,423 paid. There were 142 tickets partially paid and 6,829 unpaid — leaving $1.181-million in outstanding fines.
*In 2008, 14,400 tickets were handed out and 11,300 went unpaid, for an unpaid-fine total of $1.95 million
*Total fares evaded annually across the transit system ranged from $5.3 million to $9.5 million.

The story also touches on the fact that fare checks are resulting in people being arrested for other offenses (breach of probation, concealed weapons, narcotics) that gates wouldn't stop.

cornholio, you are probably right that a majority of the tickets that aren't paid are by a very small number of habitual abusers. So I think we are on the same page. Faregates aren't really going to stop a lot of the cheaters. We should really try enforcing laws we have and punish the cheaters properly instead of turning our Stations into fortified compounds.

Now I agree gates would be useful if we had a distance based system where you need to check out to calculate a fare and the gates would "remind" people to do that. But as long as a majority of users have monthly passes, I don't see the point of spending 10 times what we lose to the cheaters to not even catch them, but keep them away.

---------------------

Personal Anecdote:

When going to school I used to work in an electronics store in a mall. Corporate decided to install electronic sensors (like in every other store) at the entrance that would beep when someone tried to steal something. In the first couple of months they were installed, the store lost 4 times what it normally did to theft.

It was because the belief in the gates made the staff lazy and they weren't paying attention to people tampering with packages (and it was illegal to stop someone JUST because the beeper sounds, you still need to witness the actual theft with your own eyes). Not only was theft higher, but the store had to invest in the countermeasures (alarms, tags, demagnatizers). They were promptly removed and theft levels returned to normal.

I agree with you. Implementing fortified fare gates would be the single biggest mistake translink could possible do to skytrain. Its not just that it wouldent work but it would make the system considerably worse, more expensive, and more unsafe.

I somewhat agree with you about "gates" for a smart card system. However imo there should not be gates installed but just inexpensive sensors on poles that you can swipe your card across and they can light up green or red and with some very basic information like the amount charged, etc(nice and simple, somthing often times forgotten by designers and engineers). The honor system should remain the way it is, if you dont swipe and you get caught then you pay.

Really Translink should invest a bit of money in to a marketing campaing to inform people of the real safety of skytrain, the low level of fare cheats and what Translink is doing to keep it that low.

There are many ways that inexpensive and creative marketing campaigns can inform people, and in some ways also help in further reducing fare cheats.

They can for example have LED signs prominently displayed that display accurate information (that they have) on percentage of fares not payed, the number of tickets issued, and the success of the system each month. Just one example. The problem is that people are not informed and Translink needs to inform them. Having complex studies that either people are unable to understand, have the time to read, or even know about is useless. They need to be a bit more creative in informing people.

I beleive every professional Translink study has come to the same conclusion that our honor system is superior to installing fare gates.

[ozonemania]

I was always under the impression that the decision to go for the honour system initially (besides the cost) was to encourage mass transit use. SkyTrain was a whole new mode of transit that the city was not accustomed to. The stakes of failure ridership-wise was too high to put in a system like fare gates. Even if it meant losing a bunch of fare revenue from cheaters was worth it as long as the trains were filled.

Vancouver has now lived with mass transit for over 20 years. That's 20 years of people getting away with cheating and that's far enough time for me. It bugs the hell out of me that I can just walk into a station with a paid ticket knowing full well there are likely people sitting next to me that didn't bother paying at all.

I'm not sure what Translink's studies exactly show, but that 3% of riders checked were cheaters means that lost potential revenue is higher. They only caught 3% of those checked. That doesn't mean the actual %age of cheaters is the same.

I agree to a good extent that fare gates aren't all about averting cheaters. There will always be some especially in a society that on some level thinks it's cool to cheat the system. Forget about societal good and doing the right thing.

Fare gates (WITH Smart Cards) simplify the fare system by accommodating people with monthly passes, casual users, multi-modal transit users and tourists. I mention tourists because quite honestly the current system is not tourist friendly. How are they supposed to know how many zones they need to buy to go somewhere? Where are these zones? What does this map say? I don't know where I'm going?

A Smart Card that calculates your fare by where, and when, you enter and exit the system is really the best way to go.

Further, transit use can be encouraged by linking these cards to other uses like ID cards, Drivers Licenses, Student Union cards, or payment for items at convenience stores and cafes. And for tourists, they are souvenirs, something they can use again the next time they are in town.

[Canadian Mind]

Originally Posted by ozonemania

Further, transit use can be encouraged by linking these cards to other uses like ID cards, Drivers Licenses, Student Union cards, or payment for items at convenience stores and cafes. And for tourists, they are souvenirs, something they can use again the next time they are in town.

Sorta like the Metro card I got from NYC, still has a year left before it expires, and I intend on using it again.

[lightrail]

Hey - this thread was really about smart cards, not fare gates. But anyway....

Fare gates are not universal. London England, for example, the Docklands Light Rail and many of the national rail stations have no fare gates. You still need to check in and out with your Oyster card though. Fare checks on the trains can be done electronically to see if the card was touched in, and if it wasn't Penalty fares are charged. If you don't touch out, then the card assumes it's still in the system and you get charged the full amount for the possible journey on that line.

In Paris, the commuter trains have no fare gates. You walk on the platform and validate your ticket.

In Frankfurt, the U-bahn has no fare gates, it is the same proof of payment system used here; the difference, there's usually somebody at the station, not necessarily checking, but still a presence.

Edmonton is the only light rail western Canada (maybe Canada, I'm not sure about the Sca4rborough RT) to have fare gates. When the original LRT opened in 1978 fare gates were installed. They were removed within a few years in favour of the new European model called Proof of Payment (POP). The benefit was that it sped up passenger flow; also, most people were transferring from buses anyway and already had a fare.

[twoNeurons]

I've always maintained that we should call it OTTER.

One Ticket To Every wheRe
One Transit Ticket, Every Region
One Touch Transit Every Region

That combined with the memorable so bad it's good pun: "You oughta..."

Near the SeaBus:

"Use Otter to cross the water"

"Otter. Hard to resist" ( accompany with pricing details and photo of cute otter )

"Now you can take one of your own" ( picture of baby otter )

( I know, I suck at marketing )

[Waders]

Source: http://www.vancouversun.com/SkyTrain...051/story.html

SkyTrain ticket machines still not glitch-free
By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver SunDecember 10, 2009 6:02 PM

METRO VANCOUVER -- After spending months upgrading its aging SkyTrain ticket machines, TransLink is facing more glitches with the system.

The ticket vending machines on the Expo and Millennium lines were shut down completely Wednesday morning after telephone power was knocked out to the TransLink network.

Passengers were able to buy tickets at the machines late in the afternoon but only if they had cash because of problems with the debit and credit slots.

TransLink spokesman Drew Snider said he wasn’t sure what caused the latest glitch. It came amid a series of problems with the machines, which are eight to 10 years old and undergoing an overhaul.

The upgrade, started in September, was supposed to be completed in six weeks but is still not done.

On Thursday, bright yellow signs warning passengers to carry cash because of an “intermittent debit/credit function” were splashed across the SkyTrain stations. The problems are related to the upgrade, Snider said.

“You’re going to see the signs pretty much in every station,” he said. “When they go down they don’t necessary go down all at once.”

Snider noted only 14 per cent of all transit users buy tickets at the vending machines, with most passengers using pre-paid fare cards or transit passes.

On average, 240,000 passengers travel SkyTrain’s Expo and Millennium Lines each weekday.

Snider said the upgrade is intended to keep the machines in working order until 2013 when they will be replaced as part of TransLink’s new smart card system.

The TransLink board last week approved a $171.3 million capital expenditure to implement the smart-card technology to improve operating efficiencies and increase ridership.

TransLink said earlier this year that it had expected to award a contract to a smart card bidder later this year, but it would likely take up to two years before the card is activated.
Smart cards allow passengers to load cash onto their cards, with fares automatically deducted as the card is scanned at the beginning or end of a trip.

The smart cards would allow TransLink to determine where riders are coming from or heading to so it can better meet their needs.

Snider said the specific system is still up in the air, but it will aim to have “access control” such as fare gates to ensure it provides a better sense of safety and is more equitable for users across the system.

At the moment, a passenger travelling from Metrotown to Joyce stations has to pay a two-zone fare while a trip from Surrey to Tsawwassen is only one zone.

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

2 questions I have after reading the news article:
- The existing machines have to be replaced in 2013 for the new Smart Card system?
- Why does it take 4 years to implement a smart card system? I wonder how much work is required to retrofit the existing Expo skytrain stations.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Waders

2 questions I have after reading the news article:
- The existing machines have to be replaced in 2013 for the new Smart Card system?
- Why does it take 4 years to implement a smart card system? I wonder how much work is required to retrofit the existing Expo skytrain stations.

From what I know, the existing machines already have Smart Card technology, but might need to be replaced because of other reasons.

Many of the Expo Line stations must be renovated to allow for fare gates. They don't have to be renovated if we were to not use fare gates, but many should be renovated anyway. Almost all the stations needs to be renovated, or at least, reconfigured in some way to allow for fare gates. A lot of time must also be invested to convince the public that smartcards is the way. I really hope that smartcards are to be accepted not only for transit, but for other uses like parking, shopping, etc.

[officedweller]

Also consider whether the smart cards will be used on buses too (swiping on and off buses) - that may involve retrofits on all of the buses.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Also consider whether the smart cards will be used on buses too (swiping on and off buses) - that may involve retrofits on all of the buses.

i believe all the machines, both on the bus and SkyTrain, were designed with smart cards in mind. The buses will need an additional smart card sensor installed, at least for the front door.

[BCPhil]

If there are any brains in the organization at all, I'm sure there is probably a USB or RS232 plug on the machine somewhere that you can plug card reader into, then clamp it onto the handrail (like where there is usually a fan) so that the it's easy to access for riders (and people could still scan their cards while someone stands there fumbling with change for a cash fare or is asking the driver directions).

If card readers were designed to be add ons to the current machines, then you could also mount them at the rear doors for a system that uses scan-outs, or for rear door boarding on express buses.

[officedweller]

From the Buzzer:

Smart Card and Faregate Project moves forward

TransLink has given approval for procurement to proceed for a new ‘smart card’ fare collection system across all TransLink transit services, complemented by faregates that will be constructed on the Metro Vancouver SkyTrain and SeaBus systems. TransLink intends to issue a Request for Qualifications (RFQ) for the Smart Card and Faregate Project this month, followed by a Request for Proposals (RFP) in the spring of 2010. Work is expected to be underway in 2010, with the new system operational in 2013.

Using a smart card will provide a more seamless travel experience for passengers accessing TransLink’s transit network including SkyTrain, SeaBus, buses and West Coast Express.

TransLink’s smart card will be similar to cards in use throughout the world including the ‘ORCA’ cards already in use in Seattle. The card itself is the size of a credit card and is embedded with a microchip. It will be available at all transit stations, and through other distribution channels, and will replace all other current forms of tickets and passes on TransLink’s system. Smart card holders will be able to “load” their cards in person, via phone or on the web, and then use it on all forms of transit in Metro Vancouver by “tagging on / tagging off” at an electronic reader as they board and exit transit vehicles.

“Our customers have told us that convenience is a major factor in choosing to take transit,” said CEO Ian Jarvis. “The addition of TransLink’s smart card fare collection system, with all of its features, will deliver that experience, putting technology at our fingertips that will boost transit efficiency and give us the ability to transform our whole fare system.”

Smart card readers will be installed near the doors on TransLink’s bus fleet. In the case of SkyTrain stations, the electronic readers will be incorporated into the faregates. Installation of faregates on SkyTrain also has overwhelming public support as it provides people with an additional sense of security on the system. Faregates also address some of the problems associated with fare evasion and will help TransLink capture additional revenues that are being lost.

The new fare collection system will generate valuable data that will help TransLink make transit services better and more efficient. There will be ridership statistics by the time of day and the day of the week for every route in the system, which will help TransLink refine hours of service, schedules and even the size of the bus used, to match customer demand.

While the current transit fare structure will remain in place when the new fare collection system debuts in 2013, the new technology will have the flexibility to allow for new fare options and a greater variety of price incentives to reward customer loyalty and attract new people to transit.

Part of the overall cost of the program will be for renovations in Expo Line SkyTrain stations to make room for faregates. The new Faregates must be accessible, but designed to prohibit “stile-jumping.’ The disabled community will be consulted in the new year on faregate design as the project gets underway.

Funding for the Smart Card and Faregate Project, first announced in April 2009, is a joint partnership between the Government of Canada, British Columbia and Translink. The Province is investing up to $40 million and the Government of Canada has agreed in principal to commit up to $30 million to a maximum of one-third of eligible costs in this project. TransLink will fund the balance of the project; the project budget is $171 million. The competitive procurement process will start with the issuance of the Request For Qualifications (RFQ), and then the process will continue through 2010.

[GeeCee]

This thread should probably be merged with http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140910