HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #12301  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 11:08 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Anecdote time. I found a lost French tourist alone one day in downtown Montreal and walked with her for about 15 minutes as I guided her to a certain tourist destination she'd wandered far afield from. We spoke about Canada for the most part, and about 10 minutes into this conversation the topic had come to Anglophones and Francophones in the city and how we related to one another. I was speaking of myself as an Anglophone because I didn't think it needed to be pointed out that I speak French with an obvious accent, and to boot was occasionally even grasping for the right words during this particular chat. She stopped me and asked me "wait, so are you saying that you are an Anglophone"? I was dumbfounded, I said we've been talking for a good while, how can you not tell from my accent that this is my second language? She said all us Canadians just sound like people with hard to understand funny accents to her, she couldn't tell the difference between an English person speaking French and a French Canadian. I was really blown away, I knew that people form France were kind of ignorant of Canadian accents but I had not idea it was that bad. Few local Francophones would mistake me for a native speaker after a chat of 2 minutes, let alone 10, although I had been mistaken for European Francophone in the past.
I've never heard of the "lumping in" of accent by the French being at this level, but that's totally believable.

Out of curiosity, who would you compare your accent in French to? Any notable anglos that you'd sound like?
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12302  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 12:16 PM
Aylmer's Avatar
Aylmer Aylmer is offline
Still optimistic
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montreal (C-D-N) / Ottawa (Aylmer)
Posts: 4,778
Another accent out there is Quebec Anglo, which beyond the many lexical differences (mostly borrowed words or direct translations from French), also has some slight differences in pronunciation. I never though it was any different from any other form of Canadian English, although while working in tourism, many Americans have asked me if I was originally British or Australian, which I don't think I sound anything like.

But I do notice that my accent is just a little different from my Ontarian colleagues. I can't quite say how, but you can tell if the Anglo you're speaking to is from Quebec or Ontario, especially if they're above the age of 50. It's slight, but you can tell.
__________________
I've always struggled with reality. And I'm pleased to say that I won.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12303  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 12:17 PM
Laceoflight's Avatar
Laceoflight Laceoflight is offline
Montérégien
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Montréal, QC <> Versailles, FR
Posts: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Anecdote time. I found a lost French tourist alone one day in downtown Montreal and walked with her for about 15 minutes as I guided her to a certain tourist destination she'd wandered far afield from. We spoke about Canada for the most part, and about 10 minutes into this conversation the topic had come to Anglophones and Francophones in the city and how we related to one another. I was speaking of myself as an Anglophone because I didn't think it needed to be pointed out that I speak French with an obvious accent, and to boot was occasionally even grasping for the right words during this particular chat. She stopped me and asked me "wait, so are you saying that you are an Anglophone"? I was dumbfounded, I said we've been talking for a good while, how can you not tell from my accent that this is my second language? She said all us Canadians just sound like people with hard to understand funny accents to her, she couldn't tell the difference between an English person speaking French and a French Canadian. I was really blown away, I knew that people form France were kind of ignorant of Canadian accents but I had not idea it was that bad. Few local Francophones would mistake me for a native speaker after a chat of 2 minutes, let alone 10, although I had been mistaken for European Francophone in the past.

You are spot on. I live in France 6 months a year for work (I am a Québécois). I work in a research lab (landscape / territory / heritage). Usually my French colleagues are not supposed to be dumb... I mean they all are at least doctors... And since January, 3 of my colleagues told me that they thought the Québécois were descendants of British settlers that decided at some point, recently, to speak French. They were ignorant of the history and thought Canada was wall-to-wall of English origins (nevermind the First nations!). As if it was something frivolous. That speaking French in Canada was a choice of some sort. I was flabbergasted ! There is a sort of ignorance in France towards Canada in general. Especially the younger generation (30 and less). And I stopped counting the people that speak to me in French (we're having a whole conversation), and then, they realize I am from Canada and switch to English... -_-
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12304  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 12:33 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
You are spot on. I live in France 6 months a year for work (I am a Québécois). I work in a research lab (landscape / territory / heritage). Usually my French colleagues are not supposed to be dumb... I mean they all are at least doctors... And since January, 3 of my colleagues told me that they thought the Québécois were descendants of British settlers that decided at some point, recently, to speak French. They were ignorant of the history and thought Canada was wall-to-wall of English origins (nevermind the First nations!). As if it was something frivolous. That speaking French in Canada was a choice of some sort. I was flabbergasted ! There is a sort of ignorance in France towards Canada in general. Especially the younger generation (30 and less). And I stopped counting the people that speak to me in French (we're having a whole conversation), and then, they realize I am from Canada and switch to English... -_-
Maybe it's because an appreciable number of francophone Québécois have anglo-sounding names like Smith, Ross, Ryan, etc. Of course, it's only a tiny minority amongst people with names like Pierre Dupont, but still compared to France it stands out.

(In France there are tons of people who are French with Italian, Spanish, German, Polish, etc. sounding names, but very few with British names.)
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12305  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 1:24 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
I'm still in France and haven't' seen any of the CBC broadcast, but did they televise the honour guard review? While the leaders were walking away after the review, Trudeau mugged with the crowd - well the teenage girls anyway calling his name as he walked past. I didn't get the picture but I am sure I saw Harry kind of shake his head at the action since it was supposed to be a somber event.
Yes they did, it was a bit of a mash up to say the least. What is supposed to happen is the Reviewing Officer (or honoured guest(s) ) is to drive up close to the reviewing area, step up to the reviewing stand and then the Guard Commander brings the guard to attention and the ceremony commences.

According to one of my sailors who was in the Flag Party the group was to drive right up to the reviewing area but for some reason stopped quite a ways away and walked. I guess that threw the timings off and the inspection of the guard turned into a bit of a drive by.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12306  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 5:29 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 6,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddog View Post
I'm still in France and haven't' seen any of the CBC broadcast, but did they televise the honour guard review? While the leaders were walking away after the review, Trudeau mugged with the crowd - well the teenage girls anyway calling his name as he walked past. I didn't get the picture but I am sure I saw Harry kind of shake his head at the action since it was supposed to be a somber event.

Anyway, those that love JT will never see fault, those that don't always will.

While I can't say anything supporting or detracting from Vanriderfan's comment, I can say that all the high school students (well most anyway) loved JT at Vimy, whereas the more mature crowd were respectful at best of him, though the Frenchie beside was surprised at both his mannerism and language usage. Namely that he didn't seem to have a natural way with French, which surprised her since she thought Trudeau was Québécois.

Anyway, anecdote alert, but he didn't seem to wow those in he crowd (out of high school)in the area I was in.

Prince Harry has the luxury and advantage of never having to worry about being elected to his place of privilege.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12307  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 5:41 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 14,084
I had the equivalent of BIMBAM's anecdote happen to me with a Dutch girl I became friends with while I was over in Europe -- she knew I was Canadian, and after a couple days, something came up that had me pointing out English wasn't my first language, and she was surprised, I was like "wtf? didn't you pick up from my accent that I wasn't a native Anglo?" and she was like "of course not, I had assumed your accent was just a perfectly ordinary Canadian accent".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12308  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 5:45 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 14,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
And since January, 3 of my colleagues told me that they thought the Québécois were descendants of British settlers that decided at some point, recently, to speak French.
LOL... what nonsense!!! The planet's lingua franca is a steam roller, you couldn't imagine something less natural than that!

Winning the lottery is really probable, compared to the odds of Kentucky or Tennessee deciding to become unilingual French-speaking for some reason and managing to pull that off.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12309  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 6:00 PM
Andy6's Avatar
Andy6 Andy6 is offline
Starring as himself
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto Yorkville
Posts: 7,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
LOL... what nonsense!!! The planet's lingua franca is a steam roller, you couldn't imagine something less natural than that!
Well, going back a little farther, a lot of Québécois are descendants of British and Irish Quebeckers, and in many "mixed" families the French language did prevail.

A few years ago, I happened on some genealogical site that showed that almost every postwar Quebec premier, to that point anyway, was at least a little bit of British or Irish descent. A distant relation from my own family (from down your way), John Jones Ross, was a Quebec premier in the 1880s who despite his name was the son of a French-Canadian mother and had been raised as a French-speaker.
__________________
crispy crunchy light and snappy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12310  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 6:11 PM
BIMBAM's Avatar
BIMBAM BIMBAM is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I've never heard of the "lumping in" of accent by the French being at this level, but that's totally believable.

Out of curiosity, who would you compare your accent in French to? Any notable anglos that you'd sound like?
Hard to say. Like most Quebec Anglos, I only consume some French language media, with newspapers and music being disproportionate compared to television or radio, with movies somewhere in the between. My French has always been poor compared to that of the average Anglo of my generation, I always struggled with the language compared to my friends and neighbours. The Anglos I have the most experience listening to in French are politicians, so on that scale, my French during that encounter would have been far more natural than Stephen Harper's, but not as effortless and lightly accented as Jack Layton's.

Jon Lajoie might have done a good job summing me up in this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPEM3vbgI_s


Quote:
Originally Posted by Laceoflight View Post
You are spot on. I live in France 6 months a year for work (I am a Québécois). I work in a research lab (landscape / territory / heritage). Usually my French colleagues are not supposed to be dumb... I mean they all are at least doctors... And since January, 3 of my colleagues told me that they thought the Québécois were descendants of British settlers that decided at some point, recently, to speak French. They were ignorant of the history and thought Canada was wall-to-wall of English origins (nevermind the First nations!). As if it was something frivolous. That speaking French in Canada was a choice of some sort. I was flabbergasted ! There is a sort of ignorance in France towards Canada in general. Especially the younger generation (30 and less). And I stopped counting the people that speak to me in French (we're having a whole conversation), and then, they realize I am from Canada and switch to English... -_-
Bad, but at least I can understand it. What really shocked me were meeting British Columbians who didn't know Quebec Anglos were a thing. At least the French aren't essentially the same ethnic group in the same country.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12311  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 1:48 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
LOL... what nonsense!!! The planet's lingua franca is a steam roller, you couldn't imagine something less natural than that!

Winning the lottery is really probable, compared to the odds of Kentucky or Tennessee deciding to become unilingual French-speaking for some reason and managing to pull that off.
I think the explanation for what Laceoflight reported is probably more that some people just have the weirdest blind spots.

I mean, the most famous Québécois (or francophone Canadians) in France have names like Céline Dion, Roch Voisine, Yves Jacques, Marie-Josée Croze, Jacques Villeneuve, Stéphane Rousseau, Robert Charlebois, Isabelle Boulay, Coeur de Pirate (real name Béatrice Martin), Natasha St-Pier, Garou (real name Pierre Garand), Jean-Marc Généreux... you get the picture.

OK, there is Anthony Kavanagh but he's a black guy from Montreal who is of Haitian origin. Even he can't explain how he ended up with such an Irish name.
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12312  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:20 AM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
I had the equivalent of BIMBAM's anecdote happen to me with a Dutch girl I became friends with while I was over in Europe -- she knew I was Canadian, and after a couple days, something came up that had me pointing out English wasn't my first language, and she was surprised, I was like "wtf? didn't you pick up from my accent that I wasn't a native Anglo?" and she was like "of course not, I had assumed your accent was just a perfectly ordinary Canadian accent".
To some degree, I think we're all kind of "slaves" to our frame of reference. That girl was probably imagining Canadians and their accents in Dutch terms. Which is why she jumped to that conclusion about your accent.

For fun, I have asked a bunch of Belgians whether their royal family is Wallon or Flemish. The answer (from all of them): neither, they're Belgian.

So my follow-up: yeah but, what language do they speak around the dinner table? say goodnight to to their kids in? The answer (from all of them again): both.

I've also met Brazilians with names like Kunstman (very obviously German in this case), but they've been very adamant that Kunstman was not a German but rather a wholly Brazilian name. Which I guess it is in their case...

When younger I also made Swiss people scratch their heads when I kind of alluded to the fact that a Pierre Dupont in Geneva was of French ethnic origin, Hans Schmidt in Zurich was of German origin and Luigi Antonelli in Lugano was of Italian origin... I guess ethnic origin is an unknown concept to them. Or at least, they conflate citizenship with ethnic origin.
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12313  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 5:34 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Hard to say. Like most Quebec Anglos, I only consume some French language media, with newspapers and music being disproportionate compared to television or radio, with movies somewhere in the between. My French has always been poor compared to that of the average Anglo of my generation, I always struggled with the language compared to my friends and neighbours. The Anglos I have the most experience listening to in French are politicians, so on that scale, my French during that encounter would have been far more natural than Stephen Harper's, but not as effortless and lightly accented as Jack Layton's.

Jon Lajoie might have done a good job summing me up in this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPEM3vbgI_s

.
Would your accent compare to P.J. Stock's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PadgD1mwnfo
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12314  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 7:34 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 6,304
It must really stick in BlackHole's craw that Canada just turned in a blistering 1st quarter economic performance, almost 4% growth and 2017 predicted to be the best of the G7. Stoopid Libbies!

Last edited by whatnext; Apr 18, 2017 at 8:27 PM. Reason: wrong poster named
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12315  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 7:37 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
C'est quoi l'affaire?
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vieux Canada
Posts: 26,132
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatnext View Post
It must really stick in Shreddog and BlackHole's craw that Canada just turned in a blistering 1st quarter economic performance, almost 4% growth and 2017 predicted to be the best of the G7. Stoopid Libbies!
Is shreddog really that anti-Liberal? Unless I or you are mistaking him for someone else.
__________________
Vos veaux sont après chier - John Diefenbaker
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12316  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 8:23 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 14,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Is shreddog really that anti-Liberal? Unless I or you are mistaking him for someone else.
Black Star, Migs, and rrskylar are the only three SSPers who can be safely said to be anti-LPC, IMO.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12317  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 8:27 PM
whatnext whatnext is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 6,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Is shreddog really that anti-Liberal? Unless I or you are mistaking him for someone else.
Oops, yes my bad. I'll change it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12318  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2017, 11:55 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aylmer View Post
Another accent out there is Quebec Anglo, which beyond the many lexical differences (mostly borrowed words or direct translations from French), also has some slight differences in pronunciation. I never though it was any different from any other form of Canadian English, although while working in tourism, many Americans have asked me if I was originally British or Australian, which I don't think I sound anything like.

But I do notice that my accent is just a little different from my Ontarian colleagues. I can't quite say how, but you can tell if the Anglo you're speaking to is from Quebec or Ontario, especially if they're above the age of 50. It's slight, but you can tell.
Old Anglo Montreal always had a distinctive "clipped" accent. I could see why someone from the States might think it sounded British. I believe it has faded in recent decades, however.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12319  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2017, 2:00 PM
VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,262
I know there are a few federal public servants on this site. What are your thoughts on the governments' handling of the Vice Admiral Norman affair? Is it SOP for a senior public servant to be suspended (with pay I might add) without formal charges being laid?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12320  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2017, 2:10 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La vraie capitale
Posts: 11,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN View Post
I know there are a few federal public servants on this site. What are your thoughts on the governments' handling of the Vice Admiral Norman affair? Is it SOP for a senior public servant to be suspended (with pay I might add) without formal charges being laid?
It's not the suspension with pay that's extraordinary, it's the fact that there's an investigation (and possible legal action) at all. Istm that if Norman's concern was for the good of the country, as his lawyer is suggesting, rather than faithfully serving the government, then he should have resigned and gone public with his concerns.

Time will tell, but I suspect that in the end charges will not be pursued, but Norman will "move on to other challenges", as they say.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:40 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.