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  #1  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 5:52 AM
dleung dleung is offline
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How wasteful are your freeway interchanges?

All images at the same scale:

London

I really like one with the traffic circle, as you can totally see it at "street level" and integrating with the urban fabric, with one trenched freeway and one elevated freeway

Paris


Vancouver's 2nd largest (Hwy99/91)


Vancouver's largest (Cape Horn)


Montreal (Turcott)


Dubai


Dallas (High Five Interchange)


Los Angeles (I405/105)


So far it seems like none pale to the GTA
(400/407)


(401/427)


(401/403)
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  #2  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 5:57 AM
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The parclo interchanges so commonly used in Ontario (they were actually designed by the Ontario government) are pretty wasteful of land but are arguably the most efficient for traffic, especially when compared to more traditional cloverleaf or diamond designs, and they are cheaper to maintain than the fancy multi-level flyovers-galore type interchanges found in American cities.

Parclos are actually one of the things that sets Ontario apart. Almost every interchange in the entire province is a parclo. By contrast, parclos are relatively rare pretty much everywhere else, although other jurisdictions around the world are increasingly adopting them.
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  #3  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:00 AM
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It doesn't exist yet, but unfortunately the future confluence of 3 highways in Calgary will probably take the cake for this "distinction"... the Glenmore Trail, Sarcee Trail, and Stoney Trail Interchange. Part of the Calgary SW Ring Road project set to begin construction this year.


https://calgaryringroad.wordpress.co...g-road-design/



The future Highway 22X interchange looks even more atrocious than that actually... ugh.


https://calgaryringroad.wordpress.co...g-road-design/
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  #4  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:12 AM
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BC has always had quite irregular shaped interchanges with a minimal footprint, until the Cape Horn got built last year. I started this thread in while dismay at the mad rush of stack interchanges about to happen with the Hwy99 upgrade (see here: http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...201708&page=77), and got curious how these interchanges compare to others out there.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:20 AM
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this will be winnipegs worst currently under construction 59 and the 101 aka lag(french accent) and the perimeter
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.94926.../data=!3m1!1e3


then theres this https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.90494.../data=!3m1!1e3
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  #6  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dleung View Post
BC has always had quite irregular shaped interchanges with a minimal footprint, until the Cape Horn got built last year. I started this thread in while dismay at the mad rush of stack interchanges about to happen with the Hwy99 upgrade (see here: http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/show...201708&page=77), and got curious how these interchanges compare to others out there.
You talk about wasting space and then dislike the idea of the stack interchanges proposed (with centre media bus stops as well I might add). For the amount of movement being done you cant have it both ways. That fact that they are so multi-layered is actually going to make them very compact. In fact the new Steveston interchange will take up less space than old existing design (with loops) that it is replacing.

Even if the bridge width was reduced this interchange should still remain the same design.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 10:13 AM
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Shanghai's largest interchange has got to be the Xinzhuang interchange in SW Shanghai, where 3 expressways (S20 Outer Ring, S4 Jinshan Expressway, and G60 Hukun Expressway) plus the Humin Elevated Road and Humin Highway, plus mainline AND metro rail service all intersect. It's gigantic.





But this is almost suburban, whereas the urban interchanges are much more compact, but very tall due to the fact that the intersecting highways are generally both elevated.





This one is my favourite, especially to drive on - the interchange on the west end of the Nanpu Bridge. It's actually very compact given how much height it has to lose from the bridge deck (46m above the river) to the roadways below. The space is also very efficiently used, as there is a park and a bus terminal in the centre of the spiral.
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  #8  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
It doesn't exist yet, but unfortunately the future confluence of 3 highways in Calgary will probably take the cake for this "distinction"... the Glenmore Trail, Sarcee Trail, and Stoney Trail Interchange. Part of the Calgary SW Ring Road project set to begin construction this year.

[img]https://calgaryringroad.files.wordpr...timate-072.jpg[img]
https://calgaryringroad.wordpress.co...g-road-design/



The future Highway 22X interchange looks even more atrocious than that actually... ugh.

[img]https://calgaryringroad.files.wordpr...timate-021.jpg[img]
https://calgaryringroad.wordpress.co...g-road-design/
It should be mentioned though that that is the 'ultimate' stage including a second ring road that will probably never be built. What we will get in the next few years will not include the central express lanes or a lot of the flyovers.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 2:51 PM
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Interchanges that have a large footprint are not automatically wasteful. Building more expensive, less efficient, tight interchanges when land is plentiful is what's wasteful.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 2:52 PM
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FYI, There is a similar thread in the transportation folder that has many great pictures of freeways around the world.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 3:57 PM
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What do you mean by wasteful? Sure we'd like to see a better use of space in urban design but freeways are meant to keep movement going at as high rate a speed as possible. The ones used by the 400 series hwy's in Ontario are pretty standard for newer hwys built in areas that have space for them around the globe. It would be nice if they did a better job of landscaping them and planting trees in and around the interchanges. I'm sure some would consider tighter corners and slower traffic to be wasteful hwy design if it ads time to ones commute.

Outside of your London, Paris, and Dubai examples they all look fairly similar to me. That Dubai example probably the most efficient design and was most likely designed like so many other things there to look good on an aerial map or from satellite.


Michigan
Source:wikimedia.org


Missouri
Source: http://cache3.asset-cache.ne


Atlanta
Source: Google.com


Athens
Source: www.aktor.gr


These could be anywhere.
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  #12  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 3:58 PM
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Fredericton made terrible decisions in 1982 when we opened the Westmorland Street Bridge, including this 2-block abomination right in downtown...

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.96459.../data=!3m1!1e3

and built it an equally terribly designed, just as wastful identical twin on the other side of the bridge.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.97206.../data=!3m1!1e3

Moncton was on something when they designed this, a massive traffic circle (not even a proper roundabout), which leads into a freeway on one side, a small freeway segment and then traffic lights on another, and then freeway on the final side, first blocked by more lights. What's the point in building a giant, high speed circle and occupying ludicrous amounts of land when most people have to stop immediately after?

https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.09739.../data=!3m1!1e3

The 107/118 in Dartmouth hasn't had houses around it yet, but in 20 years it will be seen a a gigantic waste of space.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.72977.../data=!3m1!1e3

Downtown Halifax's well-known, well-hated embarrassment.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.65163.../data=!3m1!1e3

Saint John wasted space on this one, although nobody was even interested in that land until just recently anyway...

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.27659.../data=!3m1!1e3
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  #13  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:40 PM
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There's absolutely nothing wasteful about the 401, etc. whether one finds it compact or spread out in its form. Nitpicking in the wrong place. There are dozens of uses that are much grwater land hogs that aren't such vital pieces of infrastructure.
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Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 6:52 PM
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This one's always fun for some white knuckles:

Armdale Rotary. The lights don't help.

It looks like a normal roundabout but the overhead views loses the nice grades that lead down into it. It's like one of those waterslides that is a giant funnel you spin around before falling through.
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  #15  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
There's absolutely nothing wasteful about the 401, etc. whether one finds it compact or spread out in its form. Nitpicking in the wrong place. There are dozens of uses that are much grwater land hogs that aren't such vital pieces of infrastructure.
Like golf courses.
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  #16  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2016, 11:47 PM
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Surely the wastefulness when it comes to these things comes down to the impact to commute times due to properly engineered versus improperly engineered traffic flows. Greenery and being as compact as possible seems to be the wrong goal for these types of things. It isn't like people are making the trip down to the local freeway interchange to have a family picnic.

By that score the Vancouver area ones are particularly "wasteful".
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  #17  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2016, 2:04 AM
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By "wasteful" I mean, sure, cutting butter with a chainsaw is faster than with a butterknife, but you might wreck the counter top. It's great that I can maintain 200kph while switching freeways on a flyover, but if it means dooming the surrounding urban area into unconnected regions that can neither be crossed by foot nor effectively serviced by transit, forcing more people into cars, thus generating the traffic queue that I'm stuck at on the first arterial off-ramp, then it's of little value.

Give me the 1st scenario over the 2nd, any day.



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  #18  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2016, 2:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dleung View Post
By "wasteful" I mean, sure, cutting butter with a chainsaw is faster than with a butterknife, but you might wreck the counter top. It's great that I can maintain 200kph on a flyover while switching freeways, but if it means dooming the surrounding urban area into unconnected regions that can neither be crossed by foot nor effectively serviced by transit, forcing more people into cars, thus generating the traffic queue that I'm stuck at on the first arterial off-ramp, then it's of little value.
So offer up your solution so it can be discussed - it's not difficult to bash what exists but coming up with truly viable alternatives isn't necessarily that easy either.
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Old Posted Jan 29, 2016, 2:24 AM
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So offer up your solution so it can be discussed - it's not difficult to bash what exists but coming up with truly viable alternatives isn't necessarily that easy either.
An urban form dense and connected enough to render walking and high quality transit viable alternatives to driving?
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  #20  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2016, 2:51 AM
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The 407 borders a hydro corridor which makes it look worse than it is. Plus the area isn't fully developed there yet, unlike the other example.
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