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  #61  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Quebec City still got to keep the fictional drama TV series and movie franchise about an NHL team, kept alive for many years - or even a couple of decades - after the Nordiques left town.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Shoots,_He_Scores

The fake team's logo was incredibly similar to that of the Nordiques:

YESS! In fact, it's still alive in most people's minds
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  #62  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
At least most mocked to talked about ratio.

Toronto gets talked about a lot, so might get more mocking total, but also gets lots of positive.

Sudbury basically never gets talked about by anyone... Even in relatively near by places like Thunder Bay or Ottawa.

Winnipeg is remembered for being cold, and that's about it. (Thunder Bay honestly looks up to it in some ways.)

Hamilton gets compared to Detroit or Flint or whatever rust belt city is popular that day and if you ever mention you're from it you can get awkward and disdainful looks pretty well anywhere in Southern Ontario.
I have a feeling that if you took a group of people from across Canada (not just Southern Ontario) and asked them about Sudbury, Winnipeg and Toronto, they'd confirm the impressions I've given. If I mentioned Hamilton, I think they'd probably stare at you blankly - other than knowing it is in Ontario, it doesn't stand out much in the Canadian context.

Now, if you're talking about Southern Ontario, yes, Hamilton is the red-headed stepchild, no doubt about that. I just can't picture someone from Halifax or Calgary knowing enough about it to really mock it.
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  #63  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 5:23 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
...solid urban environment...
Seriously? I'm a bit skeptical, given's rousseau 1948 map showing about as much pink as you'd expect in Hiroshima, late summer 1945.

(Or maybe we just don't have the same definition of what's a "solid" urban environment...? If I recall correctly, you're a big fan of soul-sucking commie-blocks-in-the-park housing. That'd explain it.)
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  #64  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2017, 6:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
I have a feeling that if you took a group of people from across Canada (not just Southern Ontario) and asked them about Sudbury, Winnipeg and Toronto, they'd confirm the impressions I've given. If I mentioned Hamilton, I think they'd probably stare at you blankly - other than knowing it is in Ontario, it doesn't stand out much in the Canadian context.

Now, if you're talking about Southern Ontario, yes, Hamilton is the red-headed stepchild, no doubt about that. I just can't picture someone from Halifax or Calgary knowing enough about it to really mock it.
Ontario is the majority of Canada's anglophone population, so Ontario having a strong opinion on the city is pretty telling of the national average.
And Sudbury certainly has a lower profile, people in North Western Ontario only know marginally more about it than they do Hamilton (for all the claim of northern unity), and most people I talk to know nothing about Winnipeg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Seriously? I'm a bit skeptical, given's rousseau 1948 map showing about as much pink as you'd expect in Hiroshima, late summer 1945.

(Or maybe we just don't have the same definition of what's a "solid" urban environment...? If I recall correctly, you're a big fan of soul-sucking commie-blocks-in-the-park housing. That'd explain it.)
I put a whole bunch of links in that post you quoted. Including one smack dab in the middle of the pink (that area was torn down, yes, but that was to build most of the central business district and the main mall, you'd get a similar map of Toronto or Ottawa's CBDs).
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  #65  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 1:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Acajack
Agreed. You don't hear much about Hamilton at all, especially outside the Golden Horseshoe (where it's true it kind of has an ugly duckling reputation). But that doesn't really extend across the country.
Hamilton only has about a couple things people in Saskatchewan know about, It's a rust belt city and it has a football team. I'm more familiar with it being 'Waterfall city' and McMaster U etc just because I have a couple friends there.
I think Hamilton would have way more of a reputation if it had even a marginal sized airport and people actually flew to Hamilton instead of falling into Black hole of Pearson.

Hamilton has literally the smallest airport I have ever been to, only 5 flights the entire day!!..


I took these pics a couple weeks ago on a cold snowy day while I was flying out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok View Post
Ontario is the majority of Canada's anglophone population, so Ontario having a strong opinion on the city is pretty telling of the national average.


Ontario has <47% of Canada's English speaking population fyi
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  #66  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 2:06 AM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post

Ontario has <47% of Canada's English speaking population fyi
Close enough.
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  #67  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 5:28 PM
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Actually 47.3% according to my math. So, <48%. Close enough to half of Canada's non-francophones live in Ontario.

In fact, I am certain that more than half of Canada's non-francophones live in Ontario or in what are essentially "extensions of Ontario" from the point of view of Canada-sans-Quebec, places such as Aylmer, Buckingham, etc. or Hudson (Jack Layton's hometown) or the West Island.

Right now, these people are counted as Canadian-Anglos-that-aren't-Ontarians for the purposes of establishing that 47.3% figure. I'm not sure that's what makes the most sense.
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  #68  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
Hamilton only has about a couple things people in Saskatchewan know about, It's a rust belt city and it has a football team. I'm more familiar with it being 'Waterfall city' and McMaster U etc just because I have a couple friends there.
Not surprised. You don't hear much about Winnipeg, Quebec City, or Edmonton in Ontario.

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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
I think Hamilton would have way more of a reputation if it had even a marginal sized airport and people actually flew to Hamilton instead of falling into Black hole of Pearson.

Hamilton has literally the smallest airport I have ever been to, only 5 flights the entire day!!..
Yes, the city needs a much better airport. And there's so big of a market, like 2 million plus people in the southern GGH.

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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post


Ontario has <47% of Canada's English speaking population fyi
Oops. Close enough.
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  #69  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Acajack
Close enough.
haha.. you guys are never gonna be my accountant

To find how many people in Ontario speak English as compared to speak English in the rest of Canada as a percent, you simply divide 10,044,810 by 21,457,080 and multiple by 100.
46.8%
which is less than 47% of English speakers in Canada live in Ontario*

*(Stats Canada English speaker is defined by most common language spoken at home in 2011 census)

Quote:
Originally posted by Beedok
Not surprised. You don't hear much about Winnipeg, Quebec City, or Edmonton in Ontario.
..it must be extra annoying hearing about Oilers and Jets during NHL season then
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  #70  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Actually 47.3% according to my math. So, <48%. Close enough to half of Canada's non-francophones live in Ontario.

In fact, I am certain that more than half of Canada's non-francophones live in Ontario or in what are essentially "extensions of Ontario" from the point of view of Canada-sans-Quebec, places such as Aylmer, Buckingham, etc. or Hudson (Jack Layton's hometown) or the West Island.

Right now, these people are counted as Canadian-Anglos-that-aren't-Ontarians for the purposes of establishing that 47.3% figure. I'm not sure that's what makes the most sense.
I wouldn't call those areas "extensions of Ontario." They may have more of a connection with Ontario due to language but the people are Quebeckers and live in Quebec society. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the anglophones in the places you mentioned are descended from people who settled in those places and didn't come from Ontario. Okay, some in Gatineau (or their ancestors) may be originally across the river and there are some exceptions everywhere but I'm sure you know what I mean. Another example I can think of is the most English-speaking community of significant size in Quebec which is Shawville. Most of the people in that town as far as I've read have ancestors who settled there when they came from the British Isles (that includes Ireland) and or moved from elsewhere within Quebec. My wife is descended from Irish and English settlers of the nearby village of Sheenboro.

Where I live, pretty much all francophones have a connection to Quebec and some do to Acadia. I wouldn't really call any places in Ontario as extensions of Quebec but some places in Eastern and Northeastern Ontario have many similarities.
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  #71  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
haha.. you guys are never gonna be my accountant

To find how many people in Ontario speak English as compared to speak English in the rest of Canada as a percent, you simply divide 10,044,810 by 21,457,080 and multiple by 100.
46.8%
which is less than 47% of English speakers in Canada live in Ontario*

*(Stats Canada English speaker is defined by most common language spoken at home in 2011 census)
As I said, it's actually 47.3% when you take [Anglo + Allo] in Ontario versus [Anglo + Allo] in all of Canada-minus-Quebec. That's a better picture of reality than pretending those who speak a foreign language at home in Anglo Canada have a 50% chance of using English when dealing with the govt or when shopping, etc. / 50% chance of using French when dealing with the govt or when shopping, etc.
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  #72  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
..it must be extra annoying hearing about Oilers and Jets during NHL season then
1) Why?
2) I don't follow sports.
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  #73  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lio45
As I said, it's actually 47.3% when you take [Anglo + Allo] in Ontario versus [Anglo + Allo] in all of Canada-minus-Quebec. That's a better picture of reality than pretending those who speak a foreign language at home in Anglo Canada have a 50% chance of using English when dealing with the govt or when shopping, etc. / 50% chance of using French when dealing with the govt or when shopping, etc.
^^ you are starting to make un-substantiated assumptions about what foreign language speakers use to speak in Canada outside there home when it comes to English or French.
There are more non-Quebec Canadians outside Ontario than in Ontario but you think more foreign language speakers choose English to communicate in Ontario than rest of non-Quebec Canada and more foreign language people from BC and Alberta etc are more likely to choose French to communicate than in Ontario? ..I don't think one can draw conclusions like that without data since there are more francophones in Ontario for foreigners to communicate with than non-Quebec Canadian francophones to communicate with.

Quote:
Originally posted by Beedok
1) Why?
2) I don't follow sports.
I'm not a NHL fan either but Canada is primarily a NHL hockey sports nation (except for Saskatchewan where CFL & NFL football are more popular) so it's inevitable that in a province like Ontario that's huge on NHL hockey that you will hear about teams like Jets and particularly the Oilers in playoffs this time of year whether you follow hockey or not, its part of 'Canadian Culture' and therefore more likely to hear about NHL cities than non-NHL cities..
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  #74  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
^^ you are starting to make un-substantiated assumptions about what foreign language speakers use to speak in Canada outside there home when it comes to English or French.
There are more non-Quebec Canadians outside Ontario than in Ontario but you think more foreign language speakers choose English to communicate in Ontario than rest of non-Quebec Canada and more foreign language people from BC and Alberta etc are more likely to choose French to communicate than in Ontario? ..I don't think one can draw conclusions like that without data since there are more francophones in Ontario for foreigners to communicate with than non-Quebec Canadian francophones to communicate with.
Something like 99.6% of immigrants to Canada-outside-Quebec integrate with the anglophone majority. I don't have time to do a search right now but those stats are out there.
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  #75  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:31 PM
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  #76  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:51 PM
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I wonder why Yukon made French an official language along with English, considering there are less than a 1000 of them in the entire territory.
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  #77  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Acajack
It's 98%. Dixit Graham Fraser.
cool, there are more Canadian foreign language speakers outside Ontario than inside Ontario.. therefore drops Ontario's percentage of English speakers in Canada even more.. probably less than 45% then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedok
Ontario is the majority of Canada's anglophone population..
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  #78  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 4:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskScraper View Post
... therefore drops Ontario's percentage of English speakers in Canada even more.. probably less than 45% then.
Ontario Total 12,722,065
Ontario Francophones 284,120
Ontario Anglophones-Allophones 12,437,945

Canada Total 33,121,175
Canada Francophones 6,827,860
Canada Anglophones-Allophones 26,293,315

So, for the third time: Ontario has 47.3% of Canada's non-francophone population (a.k.a. English users). (And for your sake, I hope your accountant is better at basic math than you.)
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  #79  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
I wouldn't call those areas "extensions of Ontario." They may have more of a connection with Ontario due to language but the people are Quebeckers and live in Quebec society. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the anglophones in the places you mentioned are descended from people who settled in those places and didn't come from Ontario. Okay, some in Gatineau (or their ancestors) may be originally across the river and there are some exceptions everywhere but I'm sure you know what I mean. Another example I can think of is the most English-speaking community of significant size in Quebec which is Shawville. Most of the people in that town as far as I've read have ancestors who settled there when they came from the British Isles (that includes Ireland) and or moved from elsewhere within Quebec. My wife is descended from Irish and English settlers of the nearby village of Sheenboro.

Where I live, pretty much all francophones have a connection to Quebec and some do to Acadia. I wouldn't really call any places in Ontario as extensions of Quebec but some places in Eastern and Northeastern Ontario have many similarities.
By "extensions of Ontario" I didn't mean "freshly colonized by Ontarians" at all... just meant that these areas are similar to Ontario in every way, and are likely to be well connected to it.

Parallel settlement can easily produce areas that will be very similar and very connected, no need to have settlers from one going to the other.

At first sight it seems pretty obvious to me that Canada without Quebec would have more than half its population in Ontario, but that's not something that can be demonstrated or known without actually making the experiment.
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  #80  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2017, 6:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Ontario Total 12,722,065
Ontario Francophones 284,120
Ontario Anglophones-Allophones 12,437,945

Canada Total 33,121,175
Canada Francophones 6,827,860
Canada Anglophones-Allophones 26,293,315

So, for the third time: Ontario has 47.3% of Canada's non-francophone population (a.k.a. English users). (And for your sake, I hope your accountant is better at basic math than you.)
You probably didn't get the memo, but as Acajack said, not 100% of foreign speakers speak English in Canada which you seemed to think you could just lump together with English speakers.. first rule of accounting is don't lump together numbers that don't belong together
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