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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2017, 10:45 PM
Docere Docere is offline
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Which idea do you like more?: province of Northern Ont or NW Ont joining Man.?

It'll never happen of course, so it's all hypothetical.
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2017, 10:52 PM
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While an independent Northern Ontario sounds appealing, I question the economic viability.

NW Ontario joining Manitoba could work. I've never been there but my understanding is that it's a lot more tied with Winnipeg than Toronto. At the least, the section in the Central Time Zone could join Manitoba.
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2017, 11:13 PM
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I propose a 3rd option, all of Canada being absorbed into the province of Ontario with Toronto as its capital
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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2017, 11:39 PM
balletomane balletomane is offline
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I'd like to see the Province of Northern Ontario, if you're including Sudbury and North Bay in this area. Although, give Manitoba Kenora back!!
That area was originally promised to Manitoba during confederation but Alexander MacKenzie decided, no, it shouldn't be, and the privy council ended up handing it over to Ontario! The only good thing that came out of that was that Kenora lost its original name, "Rat Portage" - rolls off the tongue nicely.

Last edited by balletomane; Apr 4, 2017 at 12:59 AM.
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 3, 2017, 11:56 PM
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Well then , it only makes sense to give you the whole north as reparations.
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  #6  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 12:37 AM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
It'll never happen of course, so it's all hypothetical.
How about a combination of both, with separate provinces for eastern and southwestern Ontario as well?
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  #7  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 1:06 AM
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I actually live in Northern Ontario (Northeastern) and can say we in the Northeast have so much in common with the Northwest that we cannot be divided. I know of a number of people here in Timmins who moved here from Northwestern ON but don't know of anyone from Manitoba. Northern Ontario as a province is possible but quite unlikely to happen this century.

The vast majority of people in Northwestern Ontario would rather be a part of the Province of Ontario than join Manitoba. There are so many advantages being in the same province as Toronto, Ottawa, London and Sudbury. Some people in Kenora and a bit further East are more connected to Winnipeg but if they have to move for employment they will almost always choose to go somewhere in Ontario due to better economic opportunities.
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 1:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
I actually live in Northern Ontario (Northeastern) and can say we in the Northeast have so much in common with the Northwest that we cannot be divided. I know of a number of people here in Timmins who moved here from Northwestern ON but don't know of anyone from Manitoba. Northern Ontario as a province is possible but quite unlikely to happen this century.

The vast majority of people in Northwestern Ontario would rather be a part of the Province of Ontario than join Manitoba. There are so many advantages being in the same province as Toronto, Ottawa, London and Sudbury. Some people in Kenora and a bit further East are more connected to Winnipeg but if they have to move for employment they will almost always choose to go somewhere in Ontario due to better economic opportunities.
I know very few people who go to Northeastern Ontario. Lots who go to Winnipeg, Calgary and Toronto.

There are 24 to 36 flights between Thunder Bay and Toronto daily compared to 6 between Thunder Bay and Winnipeg (both directions for each and only the three major Eastern Canada airlines; I'm not counting all the smaller regional carriers.). If you're stuck on land you go to Winnipeg but if you don't mind (and can afford) flying you'll go to Toronto (you can land downtown!). If you factor in how easy it is to get to a city, Toronto is the closest major centre.

The biggest complaint we have is that we're a region of 750,000 people in a province with 4 cities bigger than that. Land use policies and the powers of local government are essentially out of our control and the priorities set by the province aren't in sync with our needs.

Regional government would be the best option. Give cities and regions more rights and devolve some taxing powers to municipalities and counties and splitting up Ontario will become a non-issue.
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 11:28 AM
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Neither, but I would choose it becoming it's own province before joining Manitoba.
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 11:59 AM
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I also support neither. I know so many people from Thunder Bay who've moved to Ottawa or at least did college/university in Ottawa before moving back. (Both folks I knew in highschool, and people I've met living here who turned out to be from Ottawa.)

Also, nothing against Manitoba, but Ontario offers a lot more high end universities and colleges. It's cheaper to be an in province student.
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  #11  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 12:20 PM
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Also, nothing against Manitoba, but Ontario offers a lot more high end universities and colleges. It's cheaper to be an in province student.
I thought Canadian citizens paid the same tuition rates regardless if they were an in-province or out-of-province student (Quebec excepted).
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
I actually live in Northern Ontario (Northeastern) and can say we in the Northeast have so much in common with the Northwest that we cannot be divided. I know of a number of people here in Timmins who moved here from Northwestern ON but don't know of anyone from Manitoba. Northern Ontario as a province is possible but quite unlikely to happen this century.

The vast majority of people in Northwestern Ontario would rather be a part of the Province of Ontario than join Manitoba. There are so many advantages being in the same province as Toronto, Ottawa, London and Sudbury. Some people in Kenora and a bit further East are more connected to Winnipeg but if they have to move for employment they will almost always choose to go somewhere in Ontario due to better economic opportunities.
While I concede that there are cultural and economic similarities between the Northwest and Northeast, I don't find there is much in the way of linkage between the populations. A resident of Thunder Bay would likely not move to Sudbury and vice-versa, in my experience. Those who do move end up in larger cities - Ottawa and the GTA - as they have more to offer from a specialization view.

Also, as others have mentioned, it is quicker for someone to get from Thunder Bay to Toronto by air than to drive between the nearest Northwestern and Northeastern cities. So, in a sense, there are stronger links between north and south than there is between west and east. In a similar vein, it is far easier to get to the south from Sudbury and North Bay than to anywhere in the northwest.

The province of Northern Ontario would be an unwieldy, disjointed, resource-dependent province. It is a sparsely populated hinterland. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Being our own province will not solve the economic issues that plague the north.

Attaching the Northwest to Manitoba wouldn't really change much either. Thunder Bay is as far away from Winnipeg as it is from Sault Ste. Marie. It is truly one of the most isolated cities in Canada that is not located above 60 degrees latitude.

Any "benefit" to redrawing provincial borders would be outweighed by the logistical hassle of the endeavor. Also, provincial borders are minor inconveniences at best - as a citizen of Canada, working across a provincial border is a non-issue.
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  #13  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 1:54 PM
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Ontario is much more capable of paying for the immense cost of providing social and physical infrastructure to such a large and sparsely settled (except for T.Bay) area.

I think Manitoba could realistically take on the little chunk of NW Ontario around Lake of the Woods...maybe up to around Kenora. Anything more would bankrupt us.
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  #14  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
How about a combination of both, with separate provinces for eastern and southwestern Ontario as well?
Realistically, I think Ontario should probably be divided up into 62 provinces.
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  #15  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
I know very few people who go to Northeastern Ontario. Lots who go to Winnipeg, Calgary and Toronto.

I've noticed a pretty big divide between the NW and NE, although interestingly it can seem a bit one-sided. As in people in the NW don't necessarily feel attached at all to the NE, but those in the NE are much more likely to consider the NW as part of the larger "North".

On more than one occasion I have heard someone attack provincial policies that "only benefit Sudbury" (aka - Toronto North) and completely ignore the NW.

As you said a lot of Thunder Bay residents seem to skip the rest of the North and go straight to Toronto. There are a ton of business connections and every flight I have flown has at least been pretty full.
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  #16  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 2:45 PM
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My view may be skewed by over-representation of francophones in my Northern Ontario connections, but my impression has always been that the NE functions as a triangular entity focused on Timmins-Sudbury-North Bay with spinoffs to the Kapuskasing and Tri-Town (Timiskaming) regions.

Beyond that, people from the NE look mostly to Toronto and Ottawa.

The Soo is kind of off on its own and has its own small sphere of influence.

As do Thunder Bay and the NW.
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 2:59 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My view may be skewed by over-representation of francophones in my Northern Ontario connections, but my impression has always been that the NE functions as a triangular entity focused on Timmins-Sudbury-North Bay with spinoffs to the Kapuskasing and Tri-Town (Timiskaming) regions.

Beyond that, people from the NE look mostly to Toronto and Ottawa.

The Soo is kind of off on its own and has its own small sphere of influence.

As do Thunder Bay and the NW.
Sault Ste. Marie is definitely more tied to the rest of northeastern Ontario. It is almost the same distance from the Soo to Thunder Bay as it is from the Soo to Toronto.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 3:13 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Ontario is much more capable of paying for the immense cost of providing social and physical infrastructure to such a large and sparsely settled (except for T.Bay) area.

I think Manitoba could realistically take on the little chunk of NW Ontario around Lake of the Woods...maybe up to around Kenora. Anything more would bankrupt us.
Manitoba already is supporting a hinterland of its own; "gifting" the province with another one would not do it any favors.
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  #19  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 3:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esquire View Post
Ontario is much more capable of paying for the immense cost of providing social and physical infrastructure to such a large and sparsely settled (except for T.Bay) area.

I think Manitoba could realistically take on the little chunk of NW Ontario around Lake of the Woods...maybe up to around Kenora. Anything more would bankrupt us.
This is true. Love NWO and I go there often for camping, canoeing, cottage in Kenora, etc. however, and no offense to NWO - but we don't want any part of you past Kenora or maybe up to Vermilion Bay or so. If anything, Manitoba should be relinquishing some of it's vast territory not absorbing more. We can't afford to service what we have.
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  #20  
Old Posted Apr 4, 2017, 3:20 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
My view may be skewed by over-representation of francophones in my Northern Ontario connections, but my impression has always been that the NE functions as a triangular entity focused on Timmins-Sudbury-North Bay with spinoffs to the Kapuskasing and Tri-Town (Timiskaming) regions.

Beyond that, people from the NE look mostly to Toronto and Ottawa.
I'm sure if you took a poll of the residents of the Northeast or Northwest and asked if they'd been to the other region of Northern Ontario, most would say either "no" or "once".

If you changed that question to whether they'd been to Toronto/Ottawa, a majority would answer "yes".
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