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  #5281  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 6:57 PM
nickw252 nickw252 is offline
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Originally Posted by Phxguy View Post
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-pho...ght-to-germany

A step in the right direction! Having flown to Frankfurt before, and being mangled in a Charlotte layover, this will be a welcome improvement. I wonder if they're starting 2 day a week service with intentions of adding higher frequency as they become more established at Sky Harbor?
That's great news. Sky Harbor's only European flight is the BA flight to London. I just wish this new flight was using a 747 or A380. I love seeing the jumbo jet coming in.
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  #5282  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 7:17 PM
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^ Congratulations on this new fight.
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  #5283  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 8:13 PM
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Passengers board the HealthLine BRT in Cleveland.
Source: Flickr. “HealthLine – Cleveland, EUA”. Author: Embarq Brasil via LAND Studio

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Originally Posted by nickw252 View Post
Cleveland developed a successful BRT line that dramatically increased ridership over the former bus route and has catalyzed significant development. I like the idea, especially on Thomas Road. However, I completely agree that it needs to be a true BRT line with dedicated lanes, raised platforms, and large covered stops.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HealthLine
Yup, they did a nice job with that and as your link states they became the only U.S. city with even a BRT silver rating from The Institute for Transportation and Development Policy. 'Best BRT in USA'
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
On the more general issue of the value of BRT, I'm deeply skeptical. No matter how much bus service is enhanced with special branding, dedicated lanes, and other BRT features, a bus is still just a bus when it comes to consumer preference.
The advantage or benefit to Cleveland is that they couldn't afford light rail. BRT proved to be an excellent choice for them and they executed it well. The same apparently applies to the Emerald Express in Eugene OR.
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  #5284  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2017, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
... I agree that "BRT creep" is a huge problem. There are about half a dozen characteristics that define true BRT. Few agencies can withstand the pressure to value-engineer some of them away. Even established BRT systems face pressure to open their dedicated lanes to car traffic. Even if all BRT features are present, I still think that "minus the rail" is a far bigger issue than most BRT advocates are willing to admit.
Props to Dan Malouff (also a Mod on the Denver pages) who popularized the use of "BRT Creep" in his Greater Greater Washington piece: “BRT creep” makes bus rapid transit inferior to rail

For talking purposes I did find that ACTransit also has this nifty breakout of the differences between Enhanced and BRT bus service.

I will say that Dan Malouff aka Cirrus (and others) have changed their attitudes around so-called BRT; after all it was 6 years ago when he wrote that piece. Even if federal FTA funding remains available it's likely there won't be enough to satiate the growing appetite for transit. It's likely that to receive (full) funding that requirements will be more strictly enforced.
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Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Despite some successes in Latin America, BRT is unlikely ever to draw discretionary passengers or catalyze development in the way that light rail does in this country. Yes, it's cheaper up front than light rail, but the savings diminish over time due to the shorter lifespans of buses compared to rail cars. You get what you pay for.
With respect to attracting development I'd agree BRT is unlikely to ever match the appeal of light rail. That said I did find this:
New Evidence That Bus Rapid Transit Done Right Spurs Development
Jan 12, 2016 By Angie Schmitt - StreetsBlog USA
Quote:
Nelson examined real estate investment, commercial rents, and multi-family housing development around BRT routes during the early 2000s and the first half of this decade. He found that in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, and other cities with high-quality BRT lines, real estate near the routes tends to be valued at a premium and is capturing an increasing share of development.
I also believe that enhanced buses/BRT can draw discretionary passengers but it's not automatic. Seattle has shown good results but there are reasons ofc.

While I'd agree with vehicle life span advantage the light rail operating and maintenance costs are often higher than anticipated.

(Dbacks are killing the Rockies... again.)
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  #5285  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 3:52 AM
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I too have ridden the Silver Line in Boston and found it generally awful. At the end of the day, it was just a bus--bumpy, loud, and rickety. I felt like Boston had been sold a bill of goods. This isn't the sort of thing that attracts choice commuters, and for that reason the fact that Latin American countries have successful BRT isn't super relevant given the lower rate of vehicle ownership there. It should be noted that Los Angeles's BRT line is getting converted to rail.

BRT might work for the I-10 median given how jammed that freeway can get and the lack of any development opportunities. I campaigned heavily for light rail on Thomas years and years ago and it didn't get one vote on the city council. Attitudes can change, and maybe they will by the time the project moves forward.
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  #5286  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 4:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phxguy View Post
http://www.abc15.com/news/region-pho...ght-to-germany

A step in the right direction! Having flown to Frankfurt before, and being mangled in a Charlotte layover, this will be a welcome improvement. I wonder if they're starting 2 day a week service with intentions of adding higher frequency as they become more established at Sky Harbor?
Actually, LH does flown it before. They tried and it didn't workout so well. It was over decades ago.

I'm so glad to hear the news about this. Let see what happens.
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  #5287  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 12:38 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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Originally Posted by combusean View Post
I too have ridden the Silver Line in Boston and found it generally awful. At the end of the day, it was just a bus--bumpy, loud, and rickety. I felt like Boston had been sold a bill of goods. This isn't the sort of thing that attracts choice commuters, and for that reason the fact that Latin American countries have successful BRT isn't super relevant given the lower rate of vehicle ownership there. It should be noted that Los Angeles's BRT line is getting converted to rail.

BRT might work for the I-10 median given how jammed that freeway can get and the lack of any development opportunities. I campaigned heavily for light rail on Thomas years and years ago and it didn't get one vote on the city council. Attitudes can change, and maybe they will by the time the project moves forward.
Exactly. Last time I flew to Boston, I saw signs upon arrival encouraging me to take the Silver Line into town. I did, and my experience was a slow, noisy bus ride more unpleasant than most I've had in Phoenix. Heading back to the airport for my return trip, I switched to my old standby, the heavy rail blue line, which was far better despite being crowded.

Councilman Valenzuela has made some remarks suggesting that he thinks I-10 is not the best corridor for light rail but that he's supporting the project because of how far it has progressed in the federal funding process. Of course, with the current administration and congress, nothing is certain, so maybe there will be some reassessment.
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  #5288  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
Actually, LH does flown it before. They tried and it didn't workout so well. It was over decades ago.

I'm so glad to hear the news about this. Let see what happens.
I remember that. It felt like a big accomplishment to have Lufthansa service to Frankfurt, and it was disappointing when the flight was cancelled. I hope this works out better.
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  #5289  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 1:07 AM
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If Transit is like Politics then Phoenix must be right up there with Portland

From Wikipedia
List of United States light rail systems by ridership

Interesting compilation of APTA numbers for the 4th quarter of 2016 as well as all of 2016. Obviously the 4th quarter numbers are the most current. The list also includes streetcars.

Like politics, with transit "everything is local" since every city/metro is unique. One of the best ways to compare ridership numbers is to look at Average Daily Boardings per Mile which puts Phoenix right there with Portland. Pretty impressive.

For anyone who would be interested in reading a great piece about the most recent light rail success story check out the March Politico Mag piece by Erick Tricky: The Train Line That Brought the Twin Cities Back Together
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  #5290  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2017, 6:02 PM
exit2lef exit2lef is online now
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For anyone who would be interested in reading a great piece about the most recent light rail success story check out the March Politico Mag piece by Erick Tricky: The Train Line That Brought the Twin Cities Back Together
Great article. I always wondered by the Blue Line came first in the Twin Cities. Although I have appreciated the direct connection between downtown Minneapolis and the airport, I always thought a line between the downtowns of the two cities made more sense. Now, I have a better understanding of the politics involved.

I noticed a few similarities to our experiences in Phoenix:

And along St. Paul’s University Avenue, at the stations that almost didn’t get built, people of every color joined the party

Many of the half-mile stations in Phoenix (Roosevelt, Encanto, Osborn, Campbell) almost weren't build do to funding shortfalls. I think our light rail line would be less successful without neighborhood stations to complement major destinations.

Campus officials feared vibrations from the light rail would upset sensitive lab work, including chemistry-lab laser experiments.

The same fears were voiced by ASU since the trains pass close to engineering and science labs in Tempe. Thankfully, the concerns of both universities were addresses because both systems rely on university campuses as significant trip generators.

Along their stretch of the 11-mile route, the Green Line would stop only once per mile, compared with once every quarter-mile in downtown Minneapolis

Athough we have half-mile stops along Central Avenue in Phoenix, stations on 19th Avenue in Phoenix and Main Street in Mesa are a mile apart, making them less effective in serving the neighborhoods they pass through. There's a constant struggle to balance needs along the line with the desire for faster travel between major destinations.
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  #5291  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2017, 4:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I noticed a few similarities to our experiences in Phoenix:
Turns out I've made the same observations elsewhere mainly with respect to connecting two downtowns and including university stops.

If you calculate the Average Daily Boardings per Mile of the Green Line (after only one year of operation) it's eye-popping. This is in stark contrast to the paltry ridership numbers that Denver's suburb to downtown routes are getting. I mention this as an example of what might apply to the I-10 route?

Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
I think our light rail line would be less successful without neighborhood stations to complement major destinations.

Athough we have half-mile stops along Central Avenue in Phoenix, stations on 19th Avenue in Phoenix and Main Street in Mesa are a mile apart, making them less effective in serving the neighborhoods they pass through. There's a constant struggle to balance needs along the line with the desire for faster travel between major destinations.
I hadn't really paid much attention to the station spacing in Phoenix so that was interesting, informative. You express the spacing dilemma well. I generally agree with you about being inclusive being important.


Quote:
Originally Posted by exit2lef View Post
Along their stretch of the 11-mile route, the Green Line would stop only once per mile, compared with once every quarter-mile in downtown Minneapolis
Switching transit modes
in addition to BRT having dedicated lanes as opposed to enhanced bus service which doesn't I also like to differentiate by the intent or expectation of the route. More local service needing more frequent stops can still benefit from enhanced bus service. In reality that's where future bus service is headed anyway.

Many routes are hybrid in nature similar to how the Green Line stations are spaced. The few Seattle RapidRide bus routes I've looked at have infrequent stops in the suburbs with more frequent stops as they arrive in the city center - or other dense area. RapidRide buses do have dedicated lanes in downtown during rush hours but not otherwise along street corridors.
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  #5292  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 4:33 PM
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https://www.facebook.com/kjzzphoenix...55522088804481

Some road diets coming to central Phoenix.
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  #5293  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 4:53 PM
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Here's the link to the article for us non-facebook people:

http://kjzz.org/content/505028/chang...ampaign=buffer

Both projects have been talked about for a few years and the VB narrowing, I think I've mentioned here before, is one of the reasons I believe you're about to see a major change in Garfield. Night and day difference is coming.
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  #5294  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 8:54 PM
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Here's the link to the article for us non-facebook people:

http://kjzz.org/content/505028/chang...ampaign=buffer

Both projects have been talked about for a few years and the VB narrowing, I think I've mentioned here before, is one of the reasons I believe you're about to see a major change in Garfield. Night and day difference is coming.
As someone who now lives Garfield, I hope it means the snatching up on vacant lots for in-fill developments.
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  #5295  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2017, 9:37 PM
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That's already happening, I can think of three infill projects completed since Jan 1, 2016 and at least a half-dozen rehabbed multi-family projects. We're starting to see a lot of flips too, an acquaintance has one on the market right now pretty much at the corner of 16th and Roosevelt.

I never saw this type of quick forward momentum in Coronado but then Coronado was never as crappy as Garfield in its low point.
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