Is Canadian identity getting stronger or weaker among the younger generation?

[Capsicum]

Do you think Canadian pride is actually getting stronger among the younger generations, compared to past generations?

I feel like millenials and kids younger still, these days, at least outwardly, seem more likely to display icons of Canadian pride. And as mentioned by many people on this forum, even though many Canadians still feel close to the US region immediately across the border from themselves (eg. Seattle and Vancouver), a cross-Canada consciousness (at least Anglo-Canada) is starting to develop where a British Columbian and Nova Scotian may be far apart but still espouse a sense of being Canadian. Even among immigrants, the tendency to pick up a Canadian identity seems to happen quickly among their kids, if not the adult immigrants.

[kwoldtimer]

No change that I've noticed. I suspect that knowledge of Canadian history and geography is in decline.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

No change that I've noticed. I suspect that knowledge of Canadian history and geography is in decline.

On the whole, there probably is an increasing sense of Canadian identity mostly because there are fewer and fewer cross border ties with the USA as times move on. In the 1950s & 60s, there was still a sense of brotherhood with the States because of the war effort, and most Canadians also had numerous cousins in the USA from migration south of the border to feed the mills and plants down there. The family relationships to the USA have mostly died off, and the USA has become increasingly politically dissimilar to Canada. I think most Canadians no longer view themselves as the little brothers in this relationship.

At the same time though, I agree with kwoldtimer that fewer and fewer Canadians understand Canadian history and geography.

As a result, while Canadians feel more "Canadian" about themselves, they paradoxically have less understanding of what it means to be a Canadian.......

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

On the whole, there probably is an increasing sense of Canadian identity mostly because there are fewer and fewer cross border ties with the USA as times move on. In the 1950s & 60s, there was still a sense of brotherhood with the States because of the war effort, and most Canadians also had numerous cousins in the USA from migration south of the border to feed the mills and plants down there. The family relationships to the USA have mostly died off, and the USA has become increasingly politically dissimilar to Canada. I think most Canadians no longer view themselves as the little brothers in this relationship.

At the same time though, I agree with kwoldtimer that fewer and fewer Canadians understand Canadian history and geography.

As a result, while Canadians feel more "Canadian" about themselves, they paradoxically have less understanding of what it means to be a Canadian.......

Also, a lot of Canadian things that we like to at least superficially display or talk about that distinguish us from the States are 1960s or post 1960s (eg. the Canadian flag, and the fact that Canada is more "left-wing" than the US is more salient in the post-Vietnam war era), so young people are more likely to know a Canada that stands alone in its identity because they're too young to remember when Canada was "British" oriented but young enough to see Canada drifting apart from the US in identity through most of their lifetime.

[Docere]

I agree. The Canadian critique of America before the 1960s was that from the right, a sort of "Tory" critique (America is too populist, too egalitarian etc.) and Canadian liberals and leftists were often the most pro-American (i.e. a democratic leftist ideology critiquing the imperial connection and traditional institutions).

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Also, a lot of Canadian things that we like to at least superficially display or talk about that distinguish us from the States are 1960s or post 1960s (eg. the Canadian flag, and the fact that Canada is more "left-wing" than the US is more salient in the post-Vietnam war era), so young people are more likely to know a Canada that stands alone in its identity because they're too young to remember when Canada was "British" oriented but young enough to see Canada drifting apart from the US in identity through most of their lifetime.

THIS.

There's a stronger sense of Canadian identity and pride now, but contemporary Canadian identity. There is less identification with historical Canadian tropes (Europe-light or USA-lite).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

THIS.

There's a stronger sense of Canadian identity and pride now, but contemporary Canadian identity. .

I'd be interested in knowing more about some of the pillars of this contemporary Canadian identity.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

There is less identification with historical Canadian tropes (Europe-light or USA-lite).

I think some of that USA-lite at least is most certainly still there, even though Canadians today have less of a hang-up about it. Or at least have altered their relationship to it.

[MonkeyRonin]

Canadians may becoming more assertive & confident in their patriotism, but that, ironically, is probably more a symptom of an increasing tendency to learn American-style patriotism and repurpose it, than it is any likelihood of people living more Canada-centric lives.

Global culture as a whole in converging more than the opposite (with American-derived pop culture of course playing a huge role in that), so I can't say I have high hopes for a Canadian identity bucking that trend and becoming more distinct, even if we gradually become a more influential country.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

On the whole, there probably is an increasing sense of Canadian identity mostly because there are fewer and fewer cross border ties with the USA as times move on. In the 1950s & 60s, there was still a sense of brotherhood with the States because of the war effort, and most Canadians also had numerous cousins in the USA from migration south of the border to feed the mills and plants down there. The family relationships to the USA have mostly died off, and the USA has become increasingly politically dissimilar to Canada. I think most Canadians no longer view themselves as the little brothers in this relationship.

I don't know about that - there are fewer Canadian emigrants leaving for the States than in the past, but it's pretty common for anyone of immigrant background to have relatives who went to other countries - most commonly the US. It seems like most people I know have family in some combination of the US, Australia, and/or the UK (aside from the "old country" of course).

Now, how long those connections will last is another matter (like in my case, we've lost touch with my relatives who went to Argentina 50 years ago by this point, but still see our American cousins once or twice a year) - but as long as there remains a steady stream of immigration to both countries, I think it's likely for this occurrence to continue.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I don't know about that - there are fewer Canadian emigrants leaving for the States than in the past, but it's pretty common for anyone of immigrant background to have relatives who went to other countries - most commonly the US. It seems like most people I know have family in some combination of the US, Australia, and/or the UK (aside from the "old country" of course).

Now, how long those connections will last is another matter (like in my case, we've lost touch with my relatives who went to Argentina 50 years ago by this point, but still see our American cousins once or twice a year) - but as long as there remains a steady stream of immigration to both countries, I think it's likely for this occurrence to continue.

True. Canadians seem really likely to have non-Canadian relatives or have kept in touch with people outside the borders of Canada, within living memory, much more so than Americans in my experience. I think it's the high percentage of not just first generation immigrants but people two to three generations removed from migration.

By comparison, it seems much more common for Americans to only have family in the US and have their entire extended families mostly within their country's borders.

For example, it's much more common for an American to say "I've got family in northern Virginia here, and in Seattle there, and in LA there etc." but not mention non-US locations. It seems like in the US, there's a bigger contrast between recent immigrants who have families overseas or across borders and then the Americans who don't really visit any degree of family relations outside US borders at all.

While in Canada it's much more common to say "I've got family in Toronto here, and in California there and in the UK, Europe/Asia/Caribbean etc."

Just my experience.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

I don't know about that - there are fewer Canadian emigrants leaving for the States than in the past, but it's pretty common for anyone of immigrant background to have relatives who went to other countries - most commonly the US. It seems like most people I know have family in some combination of the US, Australia, and/or the UK (aside from the "old country" of course).

Now, how long those connections will last is another matter (like in my case, we've lost touch with my relatives who went to Argentina 50 years ago by this point, but still see our American cousins once or twice a year) - but as long as there remains a steady stream of immigration to both countries, I think it's likely for this occurrence to continue.

I know where you're coming from, and appreciate your opinion, but I was thinking more of old stock native born Canadians rather than the mushrooming international diaspora.

Amongst Quebecers and Maritimers, almost every family had multiple siblings and cousins who immigrated to Lowell or Rumford for mill jobs during the first half of the last century. There were more family connections to Massachusetts than to Ontario or Alberta. My own mother was born in Rumford ME (my grandfather had moved down to work in the mill).

This sort of stuff doesn't happen any more. Most of the surviving economic migrants are in their 80s or 90s. The cousins no longer keep in touch. The new generation moves to central or western Canada for work, not to New England.

[Capsicum]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Canadians may becoming more assertive & confident in their patriotism, but that, ironically, is probably more a symptom of an increasing tendency to learn American-style patriotism and repurpose it, than it is any likelihood of people living more Canada-centric lives.

Global culture as a whole in converging more than the opposite (with American-derived pop culture of course playing a huge role in that), so I can't say I have high hopes for a Canadian identity bucking that trend and becoming more distinct, even if we gradually become a more influential country.

What about the rise of non-American (or non-western) countries in contributing connections to Canada? The globalization of pop culture is mostly driven by American culture, but with rising influence of places like say the Asia-Pacific, it's conceivable (though I don't know how likely) that Canada might have a distinct culture based on the demographics of its immigrant and ethnic communities.

Canada doesn't really have the equivalent of something as distinctive or influential like the African-American culture or even the British Asian/Caribbean culture but this could form in the future among Canadian homegrown minorities.

For example, I know younger Canadians might be more likely to be familiar with non-western culture (eg. Bollywood, K-pop etc.) though to what extent is it only the immigrants and children of immigrants that maintain this connection vs. people not of that heritage remains to be seen.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Canadians may becoming more assertive & confident in their patriotism, but that, ironically, is probably more a symptom of an increasing tendency to learn American-style patriotism and repurpose it, than it is any likelihood of people living more Canada-centric lives.

Global culture as a whole in converging more than the opposite (with American-derived pop culture of course playing a huge role in that), so I can't say I have high hopes for a Canadian identity bucking that trend and becoming more distinct, even if we gradually become a more influential country.

Could it be that the increasingly rah-rah-rah Canadianism is actually a reaction to a lingering sense that something is being lost or under threat?

(But even if that sentiment does exist, oddly enough it doesn't at all translate into a greater embracing of stuff that is uniquely Canadian, outside of some extreme outlier phenomena (Gord Downie) or wholly globalized or American products that just happen to have a maple leaf slapped onto them (Bieber, Drake, Raptors, etc.).)

[isaidso]

Much much stronger.... and it's well beyond all those tired cliches.

[SpongeG]

It seems stronger amongst all the 20 somethings I work with, not at the same level as American levels of USA USA USA but moreso than my generation. (gen X)

[Capsicum]

It seems like Canadian and American levels of outward displays of patriotism are converging in terms of how things are trending.

Canadian millenials are more likely to have a strong, confident sense of Canadian identity that's less subdued than in the past. They also seem to have a sense that Canadian cities and places can hold their own now compared to the US (eg. make claims that Toronto is as diverse or more diverse than New York or LA, the rising city of the Great Lakes region, now that many other cities have become part of the Rust Belt), and almost buy into a kind of Canadian exceptionalism (eg. that Canadian multiculturalism, healthcare, or other kinds of policies are something other countries should learn from).

American millenials actually seem less overtly proud in the "USA number one!" kind of way and less likely to see American exceptionalism as much of a thing (eg. look at the young people who for instance supported Bernie Sanders and accept that the US has stuff to learn from other nations, for example health care, gun control etc., while past generations much have thought that the US is a world leader and its others who'd learn from it, not the other way around).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

American millenials actually seem less overtly proud in the "USA number one!" kind of way and less likely to see American exceptionalism as much of a thing (eg. look at the young people who for instance supported Bernie Sanders and accept that the US has stuff to learn from other nations, for example health care, gun control etc., while past generations much have thought that the US is a world leader and its others who'd learn from it, not the other way around).

I noticed a distinct change in attitudes among many Americans starting with the W Bush presidency. They weren't as cocky about the U.S. being the uncontested "best" anymore.

This continued through the Obama years where the U.S. actually took on more of a "nice guy" image worldwide.

And now under Trump the U.S. comes across as being angry and defensive and has the knee-jerk behaviour of those who are insecure but won't admit it. And of course a large segment of the population down there is seriously depressed about the country like they were during the W Bush years.

Things have evolved with many twists and turns but it's certainly been a while since Americans have had a "big man on campus" style spring in their step.

[Capsicum]

Another thing that is really striking is how quickly new immigrants at least outwardly or symbolically pick up this Canadian identity.

I often see that naturalized citizens or residents who've only been in Canada 5, 10, or 15 years already seem kind of proud to be Canadian (eg. flying the Canadian flag, even if alongside their old country's flag), celebrate Canada Day, have barbecues, have their kids play hockey etc.. It seems like in the US, people have to wait a little longer before the immigrant first generation or two gets as much into the whole Fourth of July, apple pie and baseball thing (usually it's the first generation who's American born that picks up the American identity, not the individuals who immigrated as adults).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Another thing that is really striking is how quickly new immigrants at least outwardly or symbolically pick up this Canadian identity.

I often see that naturalized citizens or residents who've only been in Canada 5, 10, or 15 years already seem kind of proud to be Canadian (eg. flying the Canadian flag, even if alongside their old country's flag), celebrate Canada Day, have barbecues, have their kids play hockey etc.. It seems like in the US, people have to wait a little longer before the immigrant first generation or two gets as much into the whole Fourth of July, apple pie and baseball thing (usually it's the first generation who's American born that picks up the American identity, not the individuals who immigrated as adults).

If this is indeed true, it might be related to the theory some have that Canada's identity is low-pressure and user-friendly. So the (relative/perceived) absence of coercion actually makes people more likely to integrate and assimilate - not less.

I am not sure I am fully on board for that, but it's definitely a large school of thought in Canada.