Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

NCC still not happy either. This is going to be so expensive in the end, unnecessarily...

Oh, surprise: you mean the NCC that has pushed back against EVERY SINGLE CAPITAL TRANSIT PROJECT IN OTTAWA IN THE PAST FORTY YEARS is still not satisfied?

Abolish the NCC. ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH.

[JM1]

And yet, they seem to be pushing pretty hard for a six lane, near freeway, right through Aviation Parkway, across a wide swath of Rockcliffe Parkway and across Kettle Island without a thought about residents, greenspace, multi-use pathways, or traffic considerations.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Oh, surprise: you mean the NCC that has pushed back against EVERY SINGLE CAPITAL TRANSIT PROJECT IN OTTAWA IN THE PAST FORTY YEARS is still not satisfied?

Abolish the NCC. ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH ABOLISH.

[p_xavier]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This was all predictable as the price continues to escalate. I said a couple of years ago that the western extension will have to be underground and one step at a time, this is what is happening.

Why is nobody saying that these people are idiots? I mean everywhere else people want to have transit access near their homes but not Ottawa?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by JM1

And yet, they seem to be pushing pretty hard for a six lane, near freeway, right through Aviation Parkway, across a wide swath of Rockcliffe Parkway and across Kettle Island without a thought about residents, greenspace, multi-use pathways, or traffic considerations.

Don't forget the highways through Gatineau park!

As for the Westboroites and Mackellerites, (although, I'm not sure if the people of Westboro are actually complaining, depending on how one views the boundaries) ironically, they're probably the same people who opposed the DOTT in the first place because of the cost. Now they want super expensive/super inconvenient/super slow Carling. Ken Gray much?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

Why is nobody saying that these people are idiots? I mean everywhere else people want to have transit access near their homes but not Ottawa?

In a suburban setting (single family homes) in particular, nobody wants to live next to a surface rail line that may have a train running every one or two minutes. Worse, if you lose a view that is important to the home owner, such as a river view. I don't think that is hard to understand. It is not like you are living in a 30 storey condo which will not lose a view and you don't live at the same level as the trains zipping by.

There is also the comments about how quiet trains are. I question how accurate that is. Yes, you lose much of the engine noise, but steel wheeled vehicles can produce annoying noises that rubber tired vehicles don't. When streetcars were replaced with trolley buses in many cities, this was considered a major advancement because rubber wheeled vehicles were less noisy.

[Dado]

The segment in question is on level straightaway. Whatever issues there are with steel wheels on steel rails, those issues don't occur under those conditions.

Those people are more likely to notice the train because it temporarily interrupts the noise coming from the cars beyond it on the Parkway than they are to hear the train itself.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

In a suburban setting (single family homes) in particular, nobody wants to live next to a surface rail line that may have a train running every one or two minutes. Worse, if you lose a view that is important to the home owner, such as a river view. I don't think that is hard to understand. It is not like you are living in a 30 storey condo which will not lose a view and you don't live at the same level as the trains zipping by.

There is also the comments about how quiet trains are. I question how accurate that is. Yes, you lose much of the engine noise, but steel wheeled vehicles can produce annoying noises that rubber tired vehicles don't. When streetcars were replaced with trolley buses in many cities, this was considered a major advancement because rubber wheeled vehicles were less noisy.

It was a little more understandable when we were talking about a ditch, but now it's underground. That by itself will also solve any (if any ever existed) noise and vibration problems. Maybe we should research other cities with similar segments to find out if those exist. A simple call to Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton or Toronto would suffice. Montreal has rubber wheels and fully underground so those problems don't exist at all.

And yes, the people on the ground floor will loose the views of the river, but in exchange they will have a leveled yard, and a berm blocking both the noise and dust from the Parkway, not to mention the elimination of buses.

[citizen j]

Expropriate. Firkin.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And yes, the people on the ground floor will loose the views of the river, but in exchange they will have a leveled yard, and a berm blocking both the noise and dust from the Parkway, not to mention the elimination of buses.

Actually, no one will lost their view entirely. There's only one apartment style condo, and it's elevated enough that the ground floor units won't be affected by the Cleary station platform between them and the river.

The rest are condo towns (3 storeys a piece) or single family homes, generally elevated and 2 storeys.

[S-Man]

I once lived across the street from the Queensway (no homes as a buffer) and about 50 yards from the O-Train tracks. The O-Train is a diesel train running on heavy rail tracks. Never once did I hear it or feel it.

As for the Queensway, I actually miss the undulating 'swish' of muffled traffic noise. It helped me get to sleep. Never a vibration from that, either. People who think they're going to be driven screaming from their homes by LRT nearby are just whipping themselves into a hysteria over nothing. The real world can't replicate their irrational fears.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

In a suburban setting (single family homes) in particular, nobody wants to live next to a surface rail line that may have a train running every one or two minutes. Worse, if you lose a view that is important to the home owner, such as a river view.

How would the precious "view" be any more lost to trains, than it currently is to hundreds of buses a day?

Ottawa people seriously need to get over themselves and pull the board out of their collective anus.

[eternallyme]

I think there might be Agenda 21 paranoia from some of those people...

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by S-Man

I once lived across the street from the Queensway (no homes as a buffer) and about 50 yards from the O-Train tracks. The O-Train is a diesel train running on heavy rail tracks. Never once did I hear it or feel it.

As for the Queensway, I actually miss the undulating 'swish' of muffled traffic noise. It helped me get to sleep. Never a vibration from that, either. People who think they're going to be driven screaming from their homes by LRT nearby are just whipping themselves into a hysteria over nothing. The real world can't replicate their irrational fears.

Especially considering they already have to endure the noise from Richmond and/or SJAM pkwy.

I used to live in Vanier 8th floors up from Montreal road. It didn't take long I got used to the traffic noise (and sirens) pretty quick.

[waterloowarrior]

The NCC needs to get out of the anti-urban early-mid 20th century mindset about parkways and think about them realistically instead of idealistically... they aren't just for Sunday drives, enjoying a scenic setting and getting a break from the city, they've become key car commuter routes that also cut off access to the waterfront and the pathways. There are also no pedestrian crossings for 3KM in this stretch near Westboro. Other driveways like Colonel By and QED also have similar difficulties for pedestrian crossings and would offer good opportunities for transit and even the return of rail but the NCC seems very slow/reluctant to even add pedestrian crossings. It's too bad since in other ways the organization has made great movements to make this city a more sustainable and lively place.

[lrt's friend]

It's looking more and more that because of the enormous cost of the Confederation Line, no other significant rapid transit project (that actually speeds up service) will be able to advance for many years. This is the disappointing aspect of what is happening and has been quite predictable. Unlike other cities where real service enhancement is a component of all rapid transit projects, service enhancement is quite debateable in our case for the vast majority of Ottawans who will be using the new system. Don't get me wrong, there is no question of the need of the downtown tunnel but the cost of upgrading the Transitways is many fold the original cost. It really puts into question the wisdom of building Transitways with the idea of future conversion. Part of the enormous cost of conversion is to mitigate service deterioration during conversion. In building Phase 1 of the Confederation Line, part of the mitigation cost is being assumed by the Province in widening Highway 417. We cannot count on this in all cases in the future.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It's looking more and more that because of the enormous cost of the Confederation Line, no other significant rapid transit project (that actually speeds up service) will be able to advance for many years. This is the disappointing aspect of what is happening and has been quite predictable. Unlike other cities where real service enhancement is a component of all rapid transit projects, service enhancement is quite debateable in our case for the vast majority of Ottawans who will be using the new system. Don't get me wrong, there is no question of the need of the downtown tunnel but the cost of upgrading the Transitways is many fold the original cost. It really puts into question the wisdom of building Transitways with the idea of future conversion. Part of the enormous cost of conversion is to mitigate service deterioration during conversion. In building Phase 1 of the Confederation Line, part of the mitigation cost is being assumed by the Province in widening Highway 417. We cannot count on this in all cases in the future.

I fully agree with your statement. The big problem is that Ottawa is the only city in Canada that does not have broad financial support from upper tier governments. If we had that, we would be rolling in extensive transit improvements instead of building a extremely short (but absolutely necessary) downtown rapid transit line. And most of all, as you've stated, building bus Transitways that are intended to be converted within 10-30 years (and could support rail 10 years ago) is a expensive and idiotic way to handle this file.

[MalcolmTucker]

I am pretty sure in proportion to population Ottawa gets its fair share from the federal government. Calgary also just built a $1 billion+ LRT line without any federal cost sharing. That doesn't mean Calgary isn't getting its federal money however.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I am pretty sure in proportion to population Ottawa gets its fair share from the federal government. Calgary also just built a $1 billion+ LRT line without any federal cost sharing. That doesn't mean Calgary isn't getting its federal money however.

Not just federal, but provincial. You look at huge parts of the southern Ontario transit fully supported by MetroLinks or BCs TransLink. Vancouver only paid 29 million of 1.76 billion on the Canada Line.

[Kitchissippi]

Got back from the Western LRT open house, it was a lot more organized this time, no chance for the angry mob to resurface. At any rate, what was presented was really decent, it's really hard to find anything major to oppose. The added parkway underpass at Cleary and possibly at Dominion are a nice bonus they threw in, I'm not sure if those are something they committed the NCC to or if the city will be paying for them, since they are essentially not really linked to the LRT project. I wished they paid as much attention to the details on pedestrian links to and from Westboro Village, as the stations are somewhat tucked away from the main street.

[Buggys]

Did they mention the section between Lincoln Fields and Baseline Station?
...whether there'll still be buses between Kanata and Lincoln Fields along the transitway?
...whether Iris will be cut off from Woodroffe?