Core Entertainment Updates - Page 14

SteelTown · #**261** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 5:57 PM**

https://twitter.com/Mattatthespec/st.../photo/1/large

SteelTown · #**262** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 5:59 PM**

Carmen bid
Just convention centre
Eliminate subsidy in five years
invest $250,000 in building, signage, lights, lobby
Loren Liberman is part of the team

Beedok · #**263** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 7:39 PM**

Would that end up being a new tallest if built?

markbarbera · #**264** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 8:21 PM**

At 44 floors, it would be a new tallest.

I've been looking at the conceptual drawing, and the building in the background towards the right looks familiar. I think it is the building at 160 Market Street. Given its position in the illustration, I am guessing the rendering was drawn as if this project was going on the (soon to be former) Sir John A MacDonald high school property, with Cannon Street being the road in the foreground.

SteelTown · #**265** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 8:49 PM**

Joey Coleman
http://twitter.com/JoeyColeman/statu.../photo/1/large

It's being proposed in the West Harbour/Downtown location. I think it is Sir John A land.

markbarbera · #**266** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 9:02 PM**

This looks to be on former SJAM property, viewed from Cannon looking south. In the background to the far left is Stelco Tower, just to the left of the hotel tower you can see the top of Fed Building peeking over the building's podium/carport, to the right is 160 Market Street. It looks like the former school makes up the eastern portion of the podium (left side of screen) - maybe repurposed as convention floorspace?

Hmmm, Mercanti said during the presentation that the interested hotelier has significant US holdings, but no current presence in Ontario. Could he be talking about MGM Resorts International?

SteelTown · #**267** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 9:07 PM**

Personally I'd prefer the Live Nation bid. Live Nation has all of the experience and book great events, they own Ticketmaster and now they are owning bands as well.

markbarbera · #**268** Posted **Jul 18, 2012, 9:25 PM**

My understanding is Live Nation and Global Spectrum are partnering in a bid to run Copps Coliseum and Hamilton Place, and the partners are supportive of the separate bid by Carmen's to run the Convention Centre. At first blush I am in favour of this kind of arrangement, but as they say the devil is in the details. I'd like to see the analysis by city staff on the merits of the proposals.

CaptainKirk · #**269** Posted **Jul 19, 2012, 3:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbarbera

My understanding is Live Nation and Global Spectrum are partnering in a bid to run Copps Coliseum and Hamilton Place, and the partners are supportive of the separate bid by Carmen's to run the Convention Centre. At first blush I am in favour of this kind of arrangement, but as they say the devil is in the details. I'd like to see the analysis by city staff on the merits of the proposals.

Agreed!

At first glance, this is the way to go.

Carmens offer to save the city more money than anyone else
44 story complex has to be supported. It's a game changer
Global Spectrum has solid NHL ties, much better than any SMG might have.
Forum equity is still in play via their partnership with the city of Hamilton.

.

I feel sorry for Sonic Unyon in my scenario. These are terrific Hamilton guys, but they're not going anywhere either.(hopefully)

Lots of great Hamilton supporters there!

durandy · #**270** Posted **Jul 19, 2012, 5:04 PM**

it's not clear at all what it means that Live Nation would 'support' the Carmens bid. Sounds meaningless. Why would they jump out of their bid for all three only to 'support' a bid from an independent player? An optimist would say they don't feel they have the expertise to run the convention centre. A pessimist that they don't think the numbers are there so they're getting behind a local bidder to give them some credence at Council.

The devil is in the details. If Carmens is promising to get rid of the subsidy in five years it better be airtight. I hope the city has independent council on this and not city legal staff. Personally I'd much rather have Forum equity involved than Carmens, when you compare the crappy best western they built with the other projects forum has accomplished, including CAMH in Toronto.

flar · #**271** Posted **Jul 19, 2012, 5:27 PM**

Someday somebody has to make the hotel/conference thing work in downtown Hamilton. A few months ago someone in my office was organizing a conference that had to take place somewhere in Ontario. I asked them to look at Hamilton, they came back and said there was no appropriate venue and a lack of hotels. It ended up in Mississauga.

mattgrande · #**272** Posted **Jul 20, 2012, 1:20 PM**

A went to a Hamilton Hive event last year at the Sheraton. I was pleased with the facilities. It was your standard conference centre.

thistleclub · #**273** Posted **Jul 20, 2012, 1:46 PM**

One bonus in their favour: Live Nation has already demonstrated some of what they can do with HECFI venues. I would guess that most of the great bookings at Copps or Hamilton Place in the last five years have been their doing.

As far as their disinterest in the Convention Centre, maybe Live Nation/Global Spectrum did the math, or just read the KPMG audit:

“The Convention Centre operates in an intensely and increasingly competitive marketplace and offers relatively few advantages or unique selling propositions over its 'principal competitors.... [It] is among the smallest convention centre venues in Ontario and is also supported by the smallest number of adjacent, downtown hotel rooms.... Smallest Ontario convention centre; limits convention size... Higher cost, unionized labour... Local private venues compete aggressively on social/catering business (e.g. Carmen's, Michelangelo's, Liuna Station, Sheraton Hotel)”.

The Hamilton Convention Centre is a 31-year-old facility that has about 52,300 sq ft of rentable space (about as much as Carmen’s, Crowne Plaza and the Sheraton combined) split between three levels. The International Centre (a half-million square feet with the country's busiest airport on its doorstep) has, among its amenities a single-level 48,000 sq ft convention space that can be divvied up.

Shortage of hotel rooms is an external factor that impacts performance, but perhaps not as much as the inbuilt limitations of the facility itself.

realcity · #**274** Posted **Jul 20, 2012, 5:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by flar

Someday somebody has to make the hotel/conference thing work in downtown Hamilton. A few months ago someone in my office was organizing a conference that had to take place somewhere in Ontario. I asked them to look at Hamilton, they came back and said there was no appropriate venue and a lack of hotels. It ended up in Mississauga.

You did more than Adames did in 10 years with that. Thanks.

durandy · #**275** Posted **Jul 20, 2012, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by realcity

You did more than Adames did in 10 years with that. Thanks.

SteelTown · #**276** Posted **Jul 23, 2012, 1:39 PM**

Global/Live Nation bid...
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...esentation.pdf

SMG/Forum bid...
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...esentation.pdf

Carmen's bid...
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...esentation.pdf

HECFI's bid...
http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...esentation.pdf

thistleclub · #**277** Posted **Aug 21, 2012, 5:13 PM**

On a related note, Global Spectrum/Live Nation sound off on arena economics in a piece in today’s Toronto Star:

Riley O’Connor, chair of Live Nation Canada, told the Star on Monday that the arena will need an NHL franchise, other pro hockey or basketball team, because concerts won’t be able to generate enough revenue for a successful business.

“You really need a major tenant to make that happen,” he said. “In almost all major Canadian arenas, that’s an NHL team, an AHL team, a major junior hockey team. You can’t do it on concerts alone.”

Other industry insiders and some taxpayers have questioned continuing assertions from arena promoter Graeme Roustan, chair and chief executive officer of GTA Sports and Entertainment, that the Markham facility can work well without an NHL franchise.

But O’Connor’s comments mark the first time that someone in the arena group of consultants and advisers has raised doubts about the project’s viability without a major tenant.

“Look, I really support Graeme in his dream, but at some point you really have to look at the risks involved,” O’Connor said in an interview.

Philadelphia-based Global Spectrum, another partner in the project, has estimated the 20,000-seat Markham arena could attract 133 events annually. Roustan, a former rink operator in the U.S., has noted the arena doesn’t even need to reach that target to remain a strong business.

However O’Connor said big arenas around the country need about 200 event days a year to flourish, and the only way to reach that level is with a sports club that uses it for 40 or more dates a year. The Air Canada Centre in downtown Toronto attracts more than 200 event days a year, with the hockey Maple Leafs and basketball Raptors filling about half of the dates.

~

Last year’s KPMG audit of HECFI revealed that from 2007 to 2010, Copps averaged 87 events a year.

CaptainKirk · #**278** Posted **Aug 22, 2012, 1:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by thistleclub

.... from 2007 to 2010, Copps averaged 87 events a year.

Including Bulldogs' games?

mattgrande · #**279** Posted **Aug 22, 2012, 12:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainKirk

Including Bulldogs' games?

God I hope not... The '09-'10 AHL season had 80 games... that'd mean that the Bulldogs accounted for almost half of the events at Copps.

Frankenrogers · #**280** Posted **Aug 22, 2012, 3:20 PM**

The presentation from HECFI linked above said that there were 96 YTD events which includes 18 Bulldogs games and what has already been confirmed. I could believe that Bulldogs makes up nearly half the events.

We need the SkyHawks back!

Studio - 87 ytd vs. 93 total in 2011
H.P. - 109 ytd vs. 138 total in 2011
Copps – 96* ytd vs. 112 total in 2011
(*includes estimate of 18 Bulldog games Oct – Dec.)