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  #261  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mrnyc View Post
^ and as usual you will be proven wrong. i dk about height or care much about it really for that site, but what is certain is that the new building will be better in every respect.
But it won’t relate as well to its neighbor across the street. That’s a really iconic and almost monumental location in the city.

I fully understand the economic imperatives here (better than the majority here, I’m sure, for reasons that I will keep silent about), but it’s still a shame. In a perfect world, whatever they intend to build would replace something other than 270 Park (there are lots of nearby buildings with almost no merits whatsoever). But unfortunately that is not how the real estate economy works.
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  #262  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 8:05 PM
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^Yeah, 277 Park Avenue was designed to relate to 270, and even now the two of them look like a couple, sitting across the avenue from each other.
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  #263  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 8:42 PM
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^About that design- Aww hell no! One, there's already a lot of skyscrapers around that look like it. Two, can you imagine the dick jokes? Jamie Dimon's gonna be the butt of a LOT of those if something like that goes up.
I personally find your comment funny, but it shows the double standard. Many people referred to Zaha's work as vaginal (let alone using the common terms), and they were chided for being anti-female. There's certainly a double-standard. Frankly, I prefer cool chicks like you who are open to a joke.

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  #264  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 11:12 PM
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Personally I like these Pelli syle conical towers like Salesforce and others, even if they look like dildos. But I wouldn't want to see it on Park Avenue as I don't think it would be very complementary or appropriate to the thoroughfare or it's neighbors.
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  #265  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2018, 11:28 PM
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Yeah, a Salesforce clone would be all wrong for Park Avenue. What about something reminiscent of Pelli's earlier buildings, like BoA of Charlotte, or another one he put up (I think it was for Wells Fargo in Minneapolis)? Those are more angular, and something like them would look bad ass wearing dark glass with silver accents, the better to fit in with its neighbors.

As for the body part jokes, I think likening something to female parts is only bad if it's meant as an insult like "Ugh, a vag, gross!" In the case of the pic somebody posted earlier, that one's gonna elicit dildo jokes no matter what. If that's what Dimon proposed, I can see some smart alek photoshopping it onto him, guess where, LOL.
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  #266  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 3:44 AM
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I still think we’re all going to look back on the razing of this building as a mistake.
No we won't. There's not a single piece of the building that's worth landmarking. We'll look at it as a time when Midtown east really took off, a tower about the size of 425 Park and One Vanderbilt combined. As others follow, this will stand out as the one that really said Midtown East is going to be reborn, and not just talked about as being such.
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  #267  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Amanita View Post
Yeah, a Salesforce clone would be all wrong for Park Avenue. What about something reminiscent of Pelli's earlier buildings, like BoA of Charlotte, or another one he put up (I think it was for Wells Fargo in Minneapolis)? Those are more angular, and something like them would look bad ass wearing dark glass with silver accents, the better to fit in with its neighbors.

As for the body part jokes, I think likening something to female parts is only bad if it's meant as an insult like "Ugh, a vag, gross!" In the case of the pic somebody posted earlier, that one's gonna elicit dildo jokes no matter what. If that's what Dimon proposed, I can see some smart alek photoshopping it onto him, guess where, LOL.
I can’t imagine any guy calling a vagina gross. We love them! I’m a connoisseur.

Last edited by JMKeynes; Apr 14, 2018 at 11:55 AM.
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  #268  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 1:17 PM
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No we won't. There's not a single piece of the building that's worth landmarking. We'll look at it as a time when Midtown east really took off, a tower about the size of 425 Park and One Vanderbilt combined. As others follow, this will stand out as the one that really said Midtown East is going to be reborn, and not just talked about as being such.
Bigger is not always better.

But really, I hate Midtown anyway. So whatever.
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  #269  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 1:27 PM
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^^^^^^

South of 30th Street is where its at. Midtown is a zoo, no doubt. I prefer Lower Manhattan and especially the Flatiron District.
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  #270  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2018, 1:35 PM
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^^^^^^

South of 30th Street is where its at. Midtown is a zoo, no doubt. I prefer Lower Manhattan and especially the Flatiron District.
Yeah. And even that’s a recent phenomenon, because NoMad has really boomed (with restaurants and hotels, etc), and the whole area has become more pleasant and liveable (and expensive, but that’s why it keeps getting nicer). Several years ago I would have set the cutoff at 23rd Street.
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  #271  
Old Posted Apr 15, 2018, 5:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JMKeynes View Post
I can’t imagine any guy calling a vagina gross. We love them! I’m a connoisseur.
Come on. This is a family forum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Bigger is not always better.

But really, I hate Midtown anyway. So whatever.
Makes sense that you hate Midtown. As far as bigger goes, in this case, bigger is most definitely better. 2.5 msf of modern, state of the art office space is most certainly better than 1.5 msf of dated (decades old) office space, no matter how much lipstick you put on it. It's why the "mistress" is always younger, not older.
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  #272  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 3:36 AM
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I think about the possibilities when I read this quote...


https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news...-pay-off-87543

Quote:
SL Green Says Its Big Bet On Midtown East Is Starting To Pay Off


Durels and Holliday said they believe Midtown East is experiencing something of a renaissance. The area has been plagued by a tenant exodus in recent years, as several big-name companies opt to head Downtown and to Hudson Yards. But Durels said leasing was up 25% year over year in the area in the first quarter.

Holliday said the company was extremely pleased by JP Morgan’s decision to build its new headquarters at 270 Park Ave., a few blocks away.

“We are proud to have helped pave the way for this important new development by taking a leadership role on the passage of the Vanderbilt corridor and East Midtown rezonings,” Holliday said. “We look forward to more announcements like this in the East Midtown market.”


https://commercialobserver.com/2018/...d-new-midtown/

Quote:
One Vanderbilt—with its sleek Kohn Pedersen Fox design, the hundreds of millions of dollars in transit improvements SL Green has pledged, an 11,000-square-foot restaurant headlined by Daniel Boulud, and already hundreds of thousands of square feet of leases with Greenberg Traurig and TD Bank—promises to be the most change in Midtown in a very long time.

It paved the way for last year’s Midtown East rezoning and J.P. Morgan Chase’s announcement earlier this year that it will demolish and rebuild its 52-story tower at 270 Park Avenue.

“I think J.P. Morgan’s announcement flatters One Vanderbilt,” Holliday said from his office at 420 Lexington Avenue


The winds of change are already blowing...


https://www.instagram.com/p/BhwaHJ-F...y=maximilianwu

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  #273  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 4:43 PM
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whos next for the chopping block?

AJSNY: Park Avenue Elevation Study

S<>N



N<>S

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  #274  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 5:11 PM
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what does this mean? is there something else being blocked from starting?
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  #275  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 5:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson11 View Post
whos next for the chopping block?

AJSNY: Park Avenue Elevation Study
Cool, always love scale renderings. This could be used in a couple of other threads.




Quote:
Originally Posted by The Best Forumer View Post
what does this mean? is there something else being blocked from starting?

It's there in the title...

Quote:
Park Avenue Elevation Study
Park Avenue Between 46th and 57th Street
Large format (~14,000 pixel) accurately scaled renderings showing facades and immediate context on either side of Park Avenue in midtown Manhattan. Produced for use in evaluating the visual impact of modifications to certain facades.
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  #276  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 8:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudson11 View Post
whos next for the chopping block?

AJSNY: Park Avenue Elevation Study

S<>N



Ok, I actually think there's a lot of good stuff on the west side of Park Avenue. If we count from the left: 1, 2, 3, and 4 are all great and should stick around. 5 can go. 6 is a great postmodern tower and looks great with all its deco and modern neighbors. 6 is the best wedding cake in the city, a little TLC and it'd be a stunner. 8 is fine but I'm not married to it's modern appendage. 9 is Lever. 10 and 11 could go and no one will miss them. 12 is ok but much worse since 420 exposed its backside--btw Vinoly deserves a huge "F you" for that.



Quote:
N<>S


Not a fan of any of these save Bartholemew and Seagrams. And I guess 277 should stay because of its cool partnership with 270. I'm not even a fan of the Waldorf. I think it's ugly
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  #277  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2018, 10:57 PM
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Go figure, I love practically all of the towers on that east side rendering, along with 277. 399 recently got a facelift, 345 has a nice plaza, 425 is gonna look great when done, and even 245 Park might look nice with the right reclad design.
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  #278  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 6:32 PM
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Nope not a fan of this. Bigger really isn't better and much of the architecture being thrown up in NY in recent years leaves much to be desired. It's why NY's iconic buildings remain the ones built decades ago.

Don't Dubai my New York...
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  #279  
Old Posted May 31, 2018, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
https://commercialobserver.com/2018/...e-to-be-saved/

Does 270 Park Avenue Deserve to Be Saved?





BY REBECCA BAIRD-REMBA
MARCH 28, 2018


Obviously no. Tear it down and put a new on up there.
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  #280  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2018, 8:05 PM
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https://propmodo.com/what-happens-wh...s-useful-life/

What Happens When a Skyscraper Outlives Its Useful Life?



JPMorgan Chase plans to demolish its Midtown East headquarters on 270 Park Avenue to construct a new office tower for 15,000 employees.


Travis Barrington
06/04/2018


Quote:
After more than a century of skyscraper construction, many aging office towers in Manhattan are in need of extensive renovation. Some are architectural gems loved by nostalgic New Yorkers like the Art Deco monuments of the 1920s and ’30s, while others are just generic, asbestos-filled symbols of corporate gluttony.

Built in an era of cheap energy, many post-war Manhattan towers have facades of single-glazed glass, and structures that can’t support the weight of additional insulating glass. Many have low ceilings, tight column spacing, and inefficient heating and cooling systems. Often these have become even more cramped by having to accommodate the infrastructure of modern information technology. Buildings like these — and others that might take decades for owners to see a return on their renovation investment — may be good candidates for demolition. Replacement towers could provide owners with more space at higher rents and consume less energy. But to tear down and rebuild a skyscraper in a dense city like New York requires navigating a patchwork of zoning laws, NIMBYs, and engineering challenges.

Quote:
Despite spending millions on a 2012 renovation of 270 Park Avenue, which at the time was hailed as the largest ‘green’ renovation of a headquarters building ever, Chase says it has pushed the existing structure to its limits. It currently has about 6,000 employees crammed into the 52-story tower, which was built for 3,500 Union Carbide employees in 1961. So why not just add more floors to the current structure? That option would be preferred by some who believe the building deserves protection because it was designed by trailblazing woman architect Natalie de Blois and well-known architect Gordon Bunshaft, both of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (SOM).

If Chase were to add-on to the old structure, it could conceivably double its existing square-footage to nearly 3 million square-feet — more than One World Trade Center — as long as it preserved some existing building elements like parts of foundations or facades.

Quote:
“Preservation is one tool to create a dynamic economy, but so is development,” said Carol Willis, an architectural historian and founder of The Skyscraper Museum in New York City. She explained that many of Midtown East’s buildings are competing for tenants with the new state-of-the-art subsidized towers at Hudson Yards and the World Trade Center. “Midtown needs to answer the demands of the 21st century and shouldn’t be disadvantaged.”

So how big can developers build under the new Midtown East zoning? In Manhattan, new construction must conform to predetermined floor area ratios (FAR), the ratio of total building floor area to the area of its zoning lot. Each zoning district has a FAR which, when multiplied by the lot area, produces the maximum amount of floor area allowable. The new Midtown East zoning allows increased FAR in exchange for developers funding public transit or street improvements. For example, SL Green Realty Corp. agreed to fund $200 million worth of transit improvements in and around Grand Central Terminal, in exchange for the right to build the 1,401-foot-tall skyscraper One Vanderbilt.

Quote:
This won’t be the first time a pile of rubble existed at the 270 Park Avenue site. Chase’s current tower actually replaced a 12-story, stone-clad building that contained the Hotel Marguery and 108 luxury apartments. Built in 1917, the building — home to Nikola Tesla and other celebrities — was hailed as the largest apartment building in the world and its rents were among the most expensive before it was torn down in the 1950s.

Quote:
In 2016, to make way for One Vanderbilt, SL Green demolished a block full of buildings including the 22-story Liggett Building and 18-story Vanderbilt Avenue Building, both very old but not considered historically significant. Over on Sixth Avenue in the Garment District, developers Isaac Chetrit and Ray Yadidi are planning to tear down a 20-story office tower to make way for an 80-story mixed-use skyscraper, but first they must wait for an existing tenant’s lease to expire in 2020.

Quote:
Perhaps the most likely method for demolishing 270 Park Avenue, which Chase has said will commence early next year, will be a top-down disassembly. Taisei Corporation has perfected this method using a “hat” to wrap the top three floors of the structure. The covering withholds noise and dust and debris. As soon as the construction team tears down the walls and the floors, it continues to the next floor below. The “hat” continues to move down the building as floors are removed. Another company from Italy, Despe, is applying a similar technique. As the work progresses, the platform descends in a controlled manner until it reaches ground level and the building has been completely demolished.

Quote:
Will the reconstruction of 270 Park Avenue usher in a new wave of high-rise demolition throughout Manhattan, as developers look to modernize the City’s aging office buildings? Probably not, said Carol Willis. “A full-block site like 270 Park is an extraordinary anomaly in Midtown. Plus buildings completed before 1961 were allowed much more floor area than would be allowed under current zoning in most parts of the City,” she explained.



One way to demolish a skyscraper is top-down disassembly. A “hat” wraps the top three floors while a construction team tears down walls and floors. The “hat” continues to move down the building as floors are removed.
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