Winnipeg | Forks Redevelopment | Parcel 4 - Rail Side Initiative | Proposals

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Wasn't being condescending. Apologies if I came off that way. I was just meaning we discussed this quite a bit recently. The realities of downtown at this point in time.

It's all good.

The problem with property developers is that they often compromise quality of life aspects, with short terms profit. Issues such as where residents are going to get groceries, take transit, find schools, libraries, and parks often arise. I think a grocery store like Sobeys would be a perfect fit. Not sure if WalMart or Superstore could fit, but who knows.

It would be more appealing not only to residents of the new developments and the East Exchange, but also residents across the river on Provencher, where new condo projects have been built. Even places like Point Douglas and the east side of Downtown would find it easier to commute to, as opposed to the current Safeways on Marion (St.Boniface) and River (Osborne Village).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I take it you have never lived in Edmonton or Calgary.

I lived in Edmonton. Right across from the 109 St Save-On Foods. But that store was surrounded by many residential towers on the day it opened... by contrast, I don't know where in downtown Winnipeg you'd find a) a parcel of land big enough for Superstore or Walmart or hell, even a Save-On Foods that is b) in proximity to a large number of residents.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by esquire

I lived in Edmonton. Right across from the 109 St Save-On Foods. But that store was surrounded by many residential towers on the day it opened

And so will Winnipeg. It will be a success

I don't know where in downtown Winnipeg you'd find a) a parcel of land big enough for Superstore or Walmart or hell, even a Save-On Foods that is b) in proximity to a large number of residents.

Across from the Baseball Stadium.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by esquire

I don't know where in downtown Winnipeg you'd find a) a parcel of land big enough for Superstore or Walmart or hell, even a Save-On Foods that is b) in proximity to a large number of residents.

The Hudsons Bay Building is a Superstore on every floor.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The Hudsons Bay Building is a Superstore on every floor.

I still can't believe they closed the grocery store at the bottom level.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Across from the Baseball Stadium.

FNP controls that land and they are moving in a different direction... I'm sure that a smaller scale grocery store will be part of it somehow, but it seems highly unlikely that they'd use all of that valuable land on a big box Walmart of Superstore surrounded by a sea of asphalt.

Here's what's in store for the land you're talking about: http://www.railsideattheforks.com/

[Bluenote]

Originally Posted by trueviking

The Hudsons Bay Building is a Superstore on every floor.

That is what should happen. We could have a Walmart in there and a Superstoe. The parking would be free if you buy food or clothing from either store. It would be an amazing addition to downtown.

[esquire]

^ As amazing as it would be, I think we all know what the odds are of Walmart or Superstore setting up shop in a nearly century old department store in the middle of downtown Winnipeg.

[Urban recluse]

A few thousand more well-paid people downtown are needed before we see mainstream retailers setting up shop downtown.

[biguc]

Those of us who live downtown don't want or need a Walmart or Superstore. We can drive to the suburbs when we do need to visit one. We don't want to drive to locations downtown. We want and need smaller retailers spread around downtown so that they're actually close to where people live. Incidentally, the parts of downtown that have large populations already have grocery stores that fit that description: Family Foods near Bro-Ass, Abbey's and Dino's in Central Park.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by biguc

I live downtown and don't want or need a Walmart or Superstore. I can drive to the suburbs when I do need to visit one. I don't want to drive to locations downtown. I want and need smaller retailers spread around downtown so that they're actually close to where people live.

FYP

You are assuming everyone in Downtown has a vehicle.

Incidentally, the parts of downtown that have large populations already have grocery stores that fit that description: Family Foods near Bro-Ass, Abbey's and Dino's in Central Park.

While better than nothing, those stores are not adequate for the residents. They are more expensive, and carry far less merchandise.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I still can't believe they closed the grocery store at the bottom level.

It was a Zellers. Zellers no longer exists. Pretty simple math.

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

While better than nothing, those stores are not adequate for the residents. They are more expensive, and carry far less merchandise.

No city in the world is going to have something like a full-size Superstore in their downtown. If you feel the need to shop in a place of that scale, and choose to live downtown, that's a choice you've made. Most cities get their selection from small/medium grocery stores smaller specialty shops like delis or fine food stores. Granted we're low on that downtown here, it'll come, but a giant big box store downtown is not the solution.

I wish Trader Joe's franchised in Canada.

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by buzzg

It was a Zellers. Zellers no longer exists. Pretty simple math.

It was The Bay grocery store for decades before that. I assume they could have resumed what had just changed over by name only. It definitely made money.

[tree]

Originally Posted by biguc

Those of us who live downtown don't want or need a Walmart or Superstore. We can drive to the suburbs when we do need to visit one. We don't want to drive to locations downtown. We want and need smaller retailers spread around downtown so that they're actually close to where people live. Incidentally, the parts of downtown that have large populations already have grocery stores that fit that description: Family Foods near Bro-Ass, Abbey's and Dino's in Central Park.

Huge assumption there that everyone has a car and can just drive out to the suburbs. These places are fine at times but open limited hours with poor selection and higher prices. They can be forgiven for that but I know lots of young professionals and in particular young families who definitely want a larger chain downtown, within reasonable walking distance.

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by tree

They can be forgiven for that but I know lots of young professionals and in particular young families who definitely want a larger chain downtown, within reasonable walking distance.

If a large chain grocery store opens up downtown, the smaller grocers will go out of business. It is an oxymoron to want a large chain grocery store within reasonable walking distance of everyone. Huge grocery stores are very suburban and don't really fit well in an urban, walkable setting. They are designed for cars, and the fact they are large allows less of them to be further apart from each other. If people really need something from a large grocery store (which doesn't happen often if there are many small, diverse grocers), they can walk or bus to safeways in osborne or the west end. This is what I do at my apartment in bro-ass and it works pretty well. It would work better if we had more residents living downtown, allowing for more specific grocers (bakeries, delis, etc)

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

If a large chain grocery store opens up downtown, the smaller grocers will go out of business. It is an oxymoron to want a large chain grocery store within reasonable walking distance of everyone. Huge grocery stores are very suburban and don't really fit well in an urban, walkable setting. They are designed for cars, and the fact they are large allows less of them to be further apart from each other.

Calgary and Edmonton both have Sobeys in their core area. They both do very well.

If people really need something from a large grocery store (which doesn't happen often if there are many small, diverse grocers), they can walk or bus to safeways in osborne or the west end. This is what I do at my apartment in bro-ass and it works pretty well. It would work better if we had more residents living downtown, allowing for more specific grocers (bakeries, delis, etc)

That's simply too far out of the way for most people.

When I lived in West Broadway, I walked across the bridge to Safeway, if I wanted produce or a variety of things. There was nothing in the area that either had what I was looking for or reasonably priced. If you live in the east end of Downtown, the Exchange, or even the Old Part of St.Boniface, a Sobey's at the location stated would be practical.

[headhorse]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Calgary and Edmonton both have Sobeys in their core area. They both do very well.



That's simply too far out of the way for most people.

When I lived in West Broadway, I walked across the bridge to Safeway, if I wanted produce or a variety of things. There was nothing in the area that either had what I was looking for or reasonably priced. If you live in the east end of Downtown, the Exchange, or even the Old Part of St.Boniface, a Sobey's at the location stated would be practical.

the downtown sobeys in edmonton closed years ago, and another grocer on their "premier" (read all condos priced $400,000 and up) street is closing in October. Edmonton is the exact downtown we don't want to become - unaffordable, grocers that only do well with massive parking lots, and crappy chains everywhere, mixed in with a few unaffordable restaurants and shops.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by headhorse

the downtown sobeys in edmonton closed years ago, and another grocer on their "premier" (read all condos priced $400,000 and up) street is closing in October. Edmonton is the exact downtown we don't want to become - unaffordable, grocers that only do well with massive parking lots, and crappy chains everywhere, mixed in with a few unaffordable restaurants and shops.

My mistake, the grocer I was thinking of is a Save-On-Foods near 109th St and Jasper. There is a Calgary Safeway on 11th Av and 8th St. Both do well. I sure hope they put a grocer near York Ave and Israel Asper Way. It would compliment the area nicely, and would succeed. It's sad that they took the grocer out of the Bay Downtown.

[esquire]

^ Given what FNP has envisioned for the Parcel 4 area, I'd imagine that a grocery store would be part of the plan. But that said I'd expect it would be an urban-scaled store... there just isn't the room for a suburban-style big box.

[tree]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

If a large chain grocery store opens up downtown, the smaller grocers will go out of business. It is an oxymoron to want a large chain grocery store within reasonable walking distance of everyone. Huge grocery stores are very suburban and don't really fit well in an urban, walkable setting. They are designed for cars, and the fact they are large allows less of them to be further apart from each other. If people really need something from a large grocery store (which doesn't happen often if there are many small, diverse grocers), they can walk or bus to safeways in osborne or the west end. This is what I do at my apartment in bro-ass and it works pretty well. It would work better if we had more residents living downtown, allowing for more specific grocers (bakeries, delis, etc)

It should go without saying, but of course I meant something like this:

https://goo.gl/maps/TPhhcdnG3Xt

I'm legit concerned now that I have to explain that I mean a urban scale type grocery store occupying the street/lower levels of a larger building and not Maple Leaf Gardens.

I think that more grocers downtown would help, including a large chain as they often have better hours, prices, and selection all in one place. This doesn't refer to having giant parking lots as I vehemently oppose anymore parking lots downtown.