ROCHESTER, NY | Midtown Plaza Development | PRO

[Mr. Rochester]

Originally Posted by Halovet

Not quite, but Im sure ALL of WNY, including Buffalo, wants this building built. Im going to go out on a limb, and say that due to inspiration from Rochester's "best friend city to the east, this tower will indeed be 35 stories, or not much shorter. Hey nice job on that skyline pic, jdcamb. How inspiring!
By BANKofMANHATTAN

This is surly a WNY turn around...

[Mr. Rochester]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/...WS01/710210357

[jdcamb]

Originally Posted by Halovet

Not quite, but Im sure ALL of WNY, including Buffalo, wants this building built. Im going to go out on a limb, and say that due to inspiration from Rochester's "best friend city to the east, this tower will indeed be 35 stories, or not much shorter. Hey nice job on that skyline pic, jdcamb. How inspiring!

I think we should get the jump on Buffalo. I was so inspired by your proposed building that I think we should steal it! Might create a little developement rivalry.....

[Downtown Bolivar]

One building on 8 acres? I'm thinking some surface parking lots are in order if developers don't snap these parcels up right away. We love surface lots in WNY

[Mr. Rochester]

Originally Posted by Downtown Bolivar

One building on 8 acres? I'm thinking some surface parking lots are in order if developers don't snap these parcels up right away. We love surface lots in WNY

PaeTec only gets 500,000 sq feet of that the rest goes to any other investers interested.

[jdcamb]

Originally Posted by Downtown Bolivar

One building on 8 acres? I'm thinking some surface parking lots are in order if developers don't snap these parcels up right away. We love surface lots in WNY

Lots of potential here...

[sammyg]

^
There's plenty of parking around there already - but if this kickstarts something, maybe they can re-start the subway instead...

[RocTX]

This area definitley forms the core of downtown, so it could really impact the entire city if they did something innovative. It would be tragic if they squandered this opportunity just to put in more surface parking.

As far as the proposed tower goes, I hope the design includes some type of spire...Rochester's skyline is a little boxy looking right now.

[dbrenna5]

Its premature to "resume" service in Rochester's subway tunnel. We have more than adequate surface street and highway infrastructure. We recently got rated the 4th easiest commute in the country. This city just doesn't need trains yet, as much as I wish we did. There is enough space, even downtown for everyone to have one or more cars without adding any more parking, and without causing gridlock. We need to begin to concentrate more uses downtown (primarily residential) before we can even think of mass transit other than buses.
As far as public transit improvements, I think beefing up bus service would be a much better use of funds. Most importantly, substantial and heated bus shelters. I don't know how you can expect to have choice riders standing out in sub-zero temps on the side of the road waiting for a bus.

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by dbrenna5

Its premature to "resume" service in Rochester's subway tunnel. We have more than adequate surface street and highway infrastructure. We recently got rated the 4th easiest commute in the country. This city just doesn't need trains yet, as much as I wish we did. There is enough space, even downtown for everyone to have one or more cars without adding any more parking, and without causing gridlock. We need to begin to concentrate more uses downtown (primarily residential) before we can even think of mass transit other than buses.
As far as public transit improvements, I think beefing up bus service would be a much better use of funds. Most importantly, substantial and heated bus shelters. I don't know how you can expect to have choice riders standing out in sub-zero temps on the side of the road waiting for a bus.

I agree with what you say here. On question somewhat unrelated to the project. Does Buffalo have heated Bus shelters? I also wonder if they plan to ever expand that subway? but I guess the real question is why dosen't WNY have heated transit shelters assuming Buffalo (and The Falls) do not? If not, perhaps Rochester can set a precident here.

[dbrenna5]

I have no idea about Buffalo actually, but I know that on the L in Chicago, many of the stations are outside. They have vestibules on the platforms much like a bus shelter. Inside there is a heating element that you can turn on and automatically turns off. The beauty of it is, the more people that cram into the shelter, the better the heating works. Those were pretty old too, I'm sure some new technology would be even more efficient. I would love to see something similar to that implemented in Rochester's bus shelters.

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by dbrenna5

I have no idea about Buffalo actually, but I know that on the L in Chicago, many of the stations are outside. They have vestibules on the platforms much like a bus shelter. Inside there is a heating element that you can turn on and automatically turns off. The beauty of it is, the more people that cram into the shelter, the better the heating works. Those were pretty old too, I'm sure some new technology would be even more efficient. I would love to see something similar to that implemented in Rochester's bus shelters.

Very informative! Thanks! with the brutal winters these cities get, it's only cruel not to have this type system in place, but wouldn't they also be magnets for homeless?

[Peanut]

I hope this project doesnt fizzle out like every other major upstate development.

[dbrenna5]

They probably would be magnets for the homeless. Maybe some type of system where one pays the bus fare upon entering the shelter? A turnstile or something might do the trick. That way only paying customers could enjoy the benefits, which would also encourage more people to ride the bus I would think.

As far as this project fizzling out, everyone here at City Hall seems to be incredibly optimistic. The money from the state is already in place to tear down Midtown and provide Paetec with a "shovel ready" site. Paetec has committed to bring its headquarters downtown, though it is still up in the air what exactly will be built.

My only concern is the demolition itself. How was the $50 million price tag determined? They plan on keeping the underground garage, but how do you take down the rest of the site while not disturbing the garage? And is the tower to be built on top of the garage like the current tower is? What does that mean for the new tower's foundation? Hopefully all of these things have been thought through so that we don't have to go back to the state half way through the project asking for more money. I could not bear to see this project fail like so many others in Rochester's recent history!

[F11Roch]

There have been no details given about exact location of the tower. So there is a chance it wouldn't even be completely over the parking garage. I think the $50 million price tag is based on previous studies that have been done recently about the viability of rehabbing or knocking down Midtown.

As I mentioned in the thread in the Northeast section, I believe this will be a major boost to the region and not just because of the jobs. Most important is the boost in confidence it gives the citizens here and other businesses considering a move.

As for the other parcels, Arunas Chesonsis says he would love to see an urban style Wegmans but when questioned, the Wegmans corporation denied any interest in downtown. That certainly would be big news but the residential numbers for downtown aren't high enough yet to support it. Paychex was also asked by a local news organization if they would think of moving downtown. They of course responded that their current location was adequate and no major building growth was needed at this time. I still hold out hope that Paychex will come downtown eventually.

[dbrenna5]

I agree that the most exciting aspect of this development is on image perception- the investment in downtown will potentially attract more investment. Besides, a new tallest is always a great thing in my eyes.

I've heard about the Wegmans idea, and I think its bad. What do you think? In my opinion, the goal should be to get as many people living downtown as possible. A Megaweg is not congruent with this goal. The urban lifestyle is not congruent with huge shopping centers like a large grocery store. No one is going to walk to Wegmans and carry ten grocery bags home with them. If they want to go to Wegmans, the East Avenue location is less than 10 mins away. I should know, I do it all the time. Basically you are going to drive to Wegmans no matter what-- I do not think it is appropriate to take up so much valuable space with parking for people who could drive 10 mins down the road anyway. I would much rather see some awesome housing in there. Seems like a great place to live!

[F11Roch]

The goal should be to reach a critical mass of housing downtown. Right now there are about 3,000 residents downtown give or take a few. Critical mass to really spur retail development would be 5 or 6k. They can get there, it just will take some time.

One of the better news on that front is that High Falls, with the end of the Cordish deal, is now open to the free market for development. That is taking form with both commercial and residential transformations. Forcing it into an entertainment district, in hindsight, was a bad idea for the city. Any entertainment that comes there will be due to market forces after residential units pull it there.

So with this burgeoning residential era for downtown, the question is what comes first, the grocery store or more residential. I think in order for downtown to reach a critical mass of people living there, it will need an essential service business like a grocer. However, in order to have the demand for a grocery store, you need more residents. I think a smaller Wegmans, designed for the urban landscape and specifically catered to people with the downtown lifestyle would be fantastic providing it doesn't take up too much land. But I doubt Wegmans would ever have any interest in something like that.

[Mr. Rochester]

Originally Posted by F11Roch

The goal should be to reach a critical mass of housing downtown. Right now there are about 3,000 residents downtown give or take a few. Critical mass to really spur retail development would be 5 or 6k. They can get there, it just will take some time.

One of the better news on that front is that High Falls, with the end of the Cordish deal, is now open to the free market for development. That is taking form with both commercial and residential transformations. Forcing it into an entertainment district, in hindsight, was a bad idea for the city. Any entertainment that comes there will be due to market forces after residential units pull it there.

So with this burgeoning residential era for downtown, the question is what comes first, the grocery store or more residential. I think in order for downtown to reach a critical mass of people living there, it will need an essential service business like a grocer. However, in order to have the demand for a grocery store, you need more residents. I think a smaller Wegmans, designed for the urban landscape and specifically catered to people with the downtown lifestyle would be fantastic providing it doesn't take up too much land. But I doubt Wegmans would ever have any interest in something like that.

I wouldn't really count on a Wegmans downtown anytime soon anyways... They have never really done anything for the city of Rochester itself... If Robert Wegman was still with us I am sure he would be all of this but Dan doesn't really do much for his roots.

As for rest of the land that PaeTec doesn't use... It would be great to see another buisness take charge and put a tower in... That is a lot of land.

Tommy G really should be apart of this project. Sense he is Mr. WNY. Paychex should come downtown... Even though they denied anything... I mean if you look at there website there all about Rochester made for living but they wouldn't even think about coming downtown... Come on...

As for residential... It would be great to see some highrise luxury apartments, condos. With on the bottom of them stores.

[F11Roch]

If I remember correctly Paycheck received some sort of sweet tax deal from Penfield to expand their headquarters there a couple years ago. Also, taking all of the business and economics of a move like that aside, you have to judge it also on the demographic of your employees. I don't know this for sure, but I would imagine that Paychex employees might skew older than PAETEC's. This would possibly hinder a move to downtown.

The Wegmans family overall has done a lot for Rochester. Whether or not Danny himself does anything remains to be seen. It appears, however, that the daughters are the real ones to look for in the future. They seem to be the true leaders of that company.

There was talk of possibly building a condo tower where the spiral ramp was for the South Avenue garage. The city was looking into options for that land, which is right on a corner and I think luxury condo tower, about 12 to 14 floors, was one of them. I haven't heard much about that in a while though.

[Mr. Rochester]

Originally Posted by F11Roch

If I remember correctly Paycheck received some sort of sweet tax deal from Penfield to expand their headquarters there a couple years ago. Also, taking all of the business and economics of a move like that aside, you have to judge it also on the demographic of your employees. I don't know this for sure, but I would imagine that Paychex employees might skew older than PAETEC's. This would possibly hinder a move to downtown.

The Wegmans family overall has done a lot for Rochester. Whether or not Danny himself does anything remains to be seen. It appears, however, that the daughters are the real ones to look for in the future. They seem to be the true leaders of that company.

There was talk of possibly building a condo tower where the spiral ramp was for the South Avenue garage. The city was looking into options for that land, which is right on a corner and I think luxury condo tower, about 12 to 14 floors, was one of them. I haven't heard much about that in a while though.

That would be very interesting with the condo tower to replace that garage. Where did you hear that? I have never heard such a concept but such an idea is very promising.