Tim Hortons Field | 40m | ? | Complete

[SteelTown]

PAUL WILSON’S STREETBEAT

West is best for our new stadium

I’m on the mountaintop, standing in a waving field of wheat. Here, they say, from the stands of a new stadium, if it’s not too smoggy, you would be able to see the Toronto skyline.

The CFL TV crews would love that long shot. But is that what we’re looking for here, a chance to show Canada what Toronto looks like? Again?

I drove up here, where the Red Hill meets the Linc, for a geography lesson.

I’d never seen Meadowlands East, the big-box complex that popped up on a farmer’s field while I wasn’t looking.

Looks just like Ancaster, SilverCity and all. And right behind the Home Depot, on an earlobe shaped piece of land, is where the stadium would go.

How could it possibly qualify for $45 million from Hamilton’s precious Future Fund? That money is supposed to be about city building.

............

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/pdfs/20100714/GO4.pdf

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by geoff's two cents

In terms of the CFL actually being in favor of a prospective move, however, Young has nothing. It's all pie-in-the-sky speculation if the league itself is not on board with the idea. (Think Phoenix Coyotes).

And, as things currently stand, the league has an long-established football community in Hamilton, versus a less successful venue in Ottawa, and untried (and unverifiable) levels of long-term community support elsewhere. From the league's perspective, the case for remaining in Hamilton will far outweigh moving the franchise elsewhere.

Ottawa has 1.5 million people though.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

PAUL WILSON’S STREETBEAT

West is best for our new stadium

I’m on the mountaintop, standing in a waving field of wheat. Here, they say, from the stands of a new stadium, if it’s not too smoggy, you would be able to see the Toronto skyline.

The CFL TV crews would love that long shot. But is that what we’re looking for here, a chance to show Canada what Toronto looks like? Again?

I drove up here, where the Red Hill meets the Linc, for a geography lesson.

I’d never seen Meadowlands East, the big-box complex that popped up on a farmer’s field while I wasn’t looking.

Looks just like Ancaster, SilverCity and all. And right behind the Home Depot, on an earlobe shaped piece of land, is where the stadium would go.

How could it possibly qualify for $45 million from Hamilton’s precious Future Fund? That money is supposed to be about city building.

............

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/pdfs/20100714/GO4.pdf

This guy better be careful. The Pan Am bid is for T-dot. They could have chosen to build the stadium in North York....

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by oldcoote

Besides, if they play in Stoney Creek, they may as well play in Halifax.

Actually the land at the Linc and the Red Hill is part of the old City of Hamilton and was not part of Stoney Creek. It is west if old Upper Mt. Albion Road.

[flar]

Originally Posted by dennis1

Ottawa has 1.5 million people though.

More like 1.2 million, and the land area needed to get that population in Ottawa would cover probably 4 or 5 million people in the Hamilton area.

Also note that Ottawa's CFL franchises keep folding, and their minor league baseball teams keep folding, despite having an awesome baseball stadium. And with the Sens, I can't even tell if it's a game day or not. Ottawa is not a sports town.

[dennis1]

That is true flar.


So we call his bluff then.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by realcity

Keep going with west harbour and you'll see that we'll not only not have the PanAm Games but we'll also lose the Cats

Then we should keep going with WH, because this would be preferable to using our future fund to build a car-dependent sprawl stadium.

[highwater]

Originally Posted by flar

I would call Mr. Young's bluff.

I agree. When Bob Young made this threat, I imagine he thought he was only threatening a weak mayor and an unpopular council in an election year, but there has been a big public backlash to his bullying tactics. He may not be so tough when he realizes that in fact, he's threatening his fan base, and the very taxpayers he's going cap in hand to. He'd be in a much better position if he were offering the $50m it's going to take to get him his stadium, but he's offering no where near that.

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by highwater

Then we should keep going with WH, because this would be preferable to using our future fund to build a car-dependent sprawl stadium.

IMO our Future Fund should not be used for building a stadium regardless of its location. How is it that the city ended up on the hook for such a huge chunk of the stadium cost anyway?

[markbarbera]

Originally Posted by flar

More like 1.2 million, and the land area needed to get that population in Ottawa would cover probably 4 or 5 million people in the Hamilton area.

Also note that Ottawa's CFL franchises keep folding, and their minor league baseball teams keep folding, despite having an awesome baseball stadium. And with the Sens, I can't even tell if it's a game day or not. Ottawa is not a sports town.

The CFL has already secured a team for positioning in Ottawa for the 2012 season - the team owners collectively have put $7 million into a fund to secure a team. There are already 5000 season tickets pre-sold for the 2012 season.

[Anders Knudsen]

So as far as I can tell, right now we have:

For Harbour: Eisenberger, McHattie

For Mountain: Merulla, Morelli, Ferguson, Clark, Mitchell, Jackson

Against both: Bratina, Whitehead, McCarthy

Unknown: Duvall, Pearson, Pasuta, Powers, Collins

[SteelTown]

Merulla is a no for either West Harbour or East Mountain.

[dennis1]

This is simple NHL later or TiCats now.

[SteelTown]

Hume: Hamilton stadium should be downtown

Published On Thu Jul 15 2010
By Christopher Hume
Urban Issues, Architecture

On this the rules are clear; stadiums are about more than sports and entertainment. Done well, these facilities can be a means of civic revitalization.

But of course, they aren’t all done well. Just down the QEW, Hamilton seems increasingly determined to do the wrong thing and build its new stadium in a suburban site accessible only by car.

Despite approved plans to proceed with a new facility in the middle of a city that could use all the help it can get, Steeltown is now considering a location on the East Mountain, far from transit, and not walkable.

What makes the switch disturbing is that it comes not just because of pressure from would-be tenants, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, but more worryingly, from the province. This even though it flies in the face of the Premier Dalton McGuinty’ own smart growth legislation.

The Ticats and their owner, Bob Young, insist fans want a “driveway to driveway” experience. The problem downtown, Young explains, is lack of parking.

Ticat fans apparently don’t walk, ride or take transit. If true, that would make them as antediluvian as Young, who has yet to put aside his club.

The thing is that as part of Ontario’s Pan-American Games bid, Hamilton promised a new stadium at a downtown site serviced by transit — GO trains and LRT. The subtext, of course, was that it would help trigger much-needed downtown renewal. Given Hamilton’s decline, it was an idea that made a whole lot of sense, with or without the Games.

........

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...ld-be-downtown

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by dennis1

This is simple NHL later or TiCats now.

Do you really think that the NHL is a lock if the Tiger-Cats are ignored?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

I've heard one of the biggest reason for the East Mountain location is to attract new fans from outside of the Hamilton region with the "driveway to driveway" experience.

The Lakeshore West line carries typically 180,000 riders on the GO Train during weekdays. Soon the Lakeshore West line will extend down to the Niagara Region for weekday service, bringing all day GO Train service to Hamilton. The GO Train towards the Niagara Region attracted an average of 2,902 riders just on weekend service only during Summer months.

The West Harbour stadium is literally steps away from the new James St North GO Station. The Lakeshore West line could attract thousands of new Ti Cats fans alone, espeically the Western GTAers, probably attract hundreds more with the GO Bus as well.

I am one of those GTA'ers that would go to Tiger Cats games if I can get there easily by GO Train/Bus. If I'm to make a day trip to Hamilton, I want to be able to see some of the city too. I don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere. What the hell am I going to do before and after the game? Look at the highway?!????

The overwhelming majority of Hamilton fans come from Hamilton. They are best served by a centrally located stadium. If the Tiger-Cats also want to reach out to other potential fans in southern Ontario, a downtown location makes more sense once again, especially if it's near a regional rail/bus station.

Originally Posted by markbarbera

GO transit could only play a minor role in delivering fans to the site, no matter where it is located. The hourly Lakeshore train in a 12-carriage format has a capacity of just under 2000 passengers. If filled to capacity running in both directions, it could only deliver 10-15% of the capacity of a 25K-seat stadium at best.

A GO Train may only hold 2,000 passengers, but who says we'd all be on the same one. Some of us would come in the morning, hang out in the Hammer, go to the game, then maybe even do something else in town afterwards before heading home. I'm not about to make the effort and spend my day in the sticks.

Who says GO wouldn't put an extra train on if demand necessitates that. Isn't that their mandate? To service the inter-city rail needs of Southern Ontarians?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by dennis1

realcity: Are the TiCats really worth losing Katz and a shot at the NHL?

The success of the oldest professional football team in north America must take priority over the potential to gain an NHL team. Hamilton will get an NHL team eventually. Sacrificing the Tiger-Cats to get one quicker is fool hardy.

That said, the Tiger-Cats won't leave Hamilton if West Harbour is built. What might happen is that the Tiger-Cats suffer a slow death if a stadium gets built at the suburban location. Not everyone is willing or able to drive all the way out there.

Young hasn't thought this through. He's his team's own worst enemy right now.

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by isaidso

The success of the oldest professional football team in north America must take priority over the potential to gain an NHL team. Hamilton will get an NHL team eventually. Sacrificing the Tiger-Cats to get one quicker is fool hardy.

That said, the Tiger-Cats won't leave Hamilton if West Harbour is built. What might happen is that the Tiger-Cats suffer a slow death if a stadium gets built at the suburban location. Not everyone is willing or able to drive all the way out there.

Bingo. That's what Young does not understand. If you build it out there it is the same as my proposal. If the NHL is downtown, who will go out to the burbs to watch the CFL?

[dennis1]

Originally Posted by BCTed

Do you really think that the NHL is a lock if the Tiger-Cats are ignored?

No, but if we do get a team the Ticats will die unless they are at the West Harbour.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by dennis1

Bingo. That's what Young does not understand. If you build it out there it is the same as my proposal. If the NHL is downtown, who will go out to the burbs to watch the CFL?

Let's correct a common misconception here. The East Mountain site is not in the "Burbs". It is within the old city limits. It is not sprawl, the area has been developed for years. The bowling facility just down the road was built in the 70's. Many of the industrial properties there have been there since the 70's. Thats 40 years that the area has been developed. The proposed stadium location is one of the few properties in the area that have not been developed. If anything the stadium would be infill.

Don't get me wrong, I am opposed to the site. But it does nothing to enhance anyones credibility by referring to the site as suburban or sprawl. Let's put it in perspective. That area was developed for the most part when the population of Burlington was still less than 25,000.