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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 9:09 PM
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Moving Provincial Offices Out of Halifax

So, the Bolsheviks who run this province announced today they intend to move certain as-yet unnamed government offices out of Halifax to rural parts of the province. What a dumb idea. A field office operation is one thing, but offices with senior staff need to be near the legislature and near other departments. This cannot be good.
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 9:23 PM
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Time for new offices in Liverpool to go along with their recently subsidized mill?

I don't know what will be moved, but historically I think this kind of stuff has been a big part of poor NS economic performance. It has limited industry to begin with and the problem is made worse by taxing and spending to fight economic trends. Ultimately that strategy doesn't work, as we saw with Sydney Steel. NS doubles down on failing industries and declining towns while other provinces grow new industries that produce real economic benefit without the need for constant life support.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 11:35 PM
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I really hope no one votes for the commies next time...
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  #4  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 11:40 PM
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Along with federal job cuts this won't be good for Halifax.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2012, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PoscStudent View Post
Along with federal job cuts this won't be good for Halifax.
Not to defend the NDP, but its sounds like only new government services could be moved (not existing jobs). It's probably a non-issue meant to sound good to rural nova scotians.

The federal cuts are suppose to be mostly in Ottawa.
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 12:27 AM
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Not to defend the NDP, but its sounds like only new government services could be moved (not existing jobs). It's probably a non-issue meant to sound good to rural nova scotians.

The federal cuts are suppose to be mostly in Ottawa.
Unless Dexter is increasing the pubblic service then eventually there would be less jobs in Halifax.

I heard there was something like 100 people at ACOA in Halifax who lost job this week.
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 3:22 AM
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Unless Dexter is increasing the pubblic service then eventually there would be less jobs in Halifax.

I heard there was something like 100 people at ACOA in Halifax who lost job this week.
Then local industry will have to catch up to replace the lost jobs. If the rest of the province is to innovate and get out of the trap of relying on government, then we need to start leading by example. The Halifax economy should be strong enough (and have enough jobs being created by the private sector) that 100 jobs lost at a government agency shouldn't be a huge deal.
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  #8  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 3:51 AM
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Then local industry will have to catch up to replace the lost jobs. If the rest of the province is to innovate and get out of the trap of relying on government, then we need to start leading by example. The Halifax economy should be strong enough (and have enough jobs being created by the private sector) that 100 jobs lost at a government agency shouldn't be a huge deal.
That is a good point. Halifax needs fewer government jobs and more private sector jobs.
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:11 PM
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Then local industry will have to catch up to replace the lost jobs. If the rest of the province is to innovate and get out of the trap of relying on government, then we need to start leading by example. The Halifax economy should be strong enough (and have enough jobs being created by the private sector) that 100 jobs lost at a government agency shouldn't be a huge deal.
I agree 100%, let's hope the private sector does step up though.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 3:31 PM
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Unless Dexter is increasing the pubblic service then eventually there would be less jobs in Halifax.

I heard there was something like 100 people at ACOA in Halifax who lost job this week.
You'd have to blame the fascists not the commies for ACOA job losses. Just sayin'.
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  #11  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 5:09 AM
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Over the past 15 years or so Halifax has had good private sector job creation. The number of federal jobs in Halifax has remained about the same since the early-90's cutbacks while overall employment has increased by perhaps 25% or more. As a result the local economy is in far better shape now. Not sure what the story is for provincial jobs, but according to an ANS article tonight only about half of NS provincial jobs are actually located in Halifax, and Halifax has nearly half of the province's population.
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2012, 2:38 PM
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Well considering government occupies close to 50% of the downtown office market it could be very interesting....
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2012, 1:39 PM
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Well considering government occupies close to 50% of the downtown office market it could be very interesting....
Yep and that's the real negative for Downtown Halifax and to a lesser extent Downtown Dartmouth. Over the next 3 years, as cutbacks roll through the system, it'll likely mean less demand for space, which will further undermine HRM's stated goal of refocusing growth into the core. I say stated goal because although it's easy to say things like that in the Regional Plan or HRM By Design, virtually every other HRM action that counts encourages the exact opposite result. Our taxation regime says stay out of the Downtown and our transportation and infrastructure spending favours the suburban market. Why locate Downtown where taxes are higher, parking cost money and where few customers/employees actually live? It'll be interesting to see too if on top of any space redctions, whether the government leases that are still needed end up moved to the suburbs at renewal time as part of cost cutting. Cuts plus relocation could be problematic for the Downtown as we currently envision it. I really think that we need to build the residential market Downtown as precursor to reviving the office and retail sectors. The 1960s way we've approached things doesn't work. We need residents to attract the commercial sector back. Anyway, that's my 2 cents (without pennies I guess rounded down to 0 cents now).

Last edited by spaustin; Mar 31, 2012 at 3:16 PM.
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  #14  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2012, 3:55 PM
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I really think that we need to build the residential market Downtown as precursor to reviving the office and retail sectors. The 1960s way we've approached things doesn't work. We need residents to attract the commercial sector back. Anyway, that's my 2 cents (without pennies I guess rounded down to 0 cents now).
I agree. At this point downtown Halifax should be focusing on residential just as downtown Toronto did over the past 20 years (for about 15 of those years downtown Toronto was stagnant as far as downtown office construction was concerned).

With its close proximity to museums, theatre, universities and restaurants, I think there will be a strong demand for downtown residential development.
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  #15  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:00 PM
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This is Dexter pandering for votes.

Are there absolutely any advantages to moving these government jobs out of Nova Scotia's economic engine -- which is what HALIFAX is -- to dying rural areas of the province that shall continue to decline even after the installment of these jobs?!

I really wish the province would grow a pair and get serious about dealing with rural Nova Scotia, which cannot at all sustain itself without Haligonian help. To hell with rural Nova Scotians wailing about the rural vs. urban political divide; Halifax is Nova Scotia's financial reason for existing. These small town subsidies are permanent economic hemorrhages. The province should force them to urbanise.
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  #16  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
This is Dexter pandering for votes.

Are there absolutely any advantages to moving these government jobs out of Nova Scotia's economic engine -- which is what HALIFAX is -- to dying rural areas of the province that shall continue to decline even after the installment of these jobs?!

I really wish the province would grow a pair and get serious about dealing with rural Nova Scotia, which cannot at all sustain itself without Haligonian help. To hell with rural Nova Scotians wailing about the rural vs. urban political divide; Halifax is Nova Scotia's financial reason for existing. These small town subsidies are permanent economic hemorrhages. The province should force them to urbanise.
There's a sense that people are sort of entitled to stay in their villages, and this goes unquestioned. Port Hawkesbury for example is a dying town with very little economic reason to exist, but it's home to people, has a long history etc., and the provincial government is absolutely unwilling to let it disappear from the map even if its continued existence makes no economic sense. Some people also don't want to live in a city. Whether or not taxpayers should be subsidizing this lifestyle is another question. It's ultimately more of an emotional issue than a rational one, but people are emotional and not necessarily rational.
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  #17  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RyeJay View Post
This is Dexter pandering for votes.

Are there absolutely any advantages to moving these government jobs out of Nova Scotia's economic engine -- which is what HALIFAX is -- to dying rural areas of the province that shall continue to decline even after the installment of these jobs?!

I really wish the province would grow a pair and get serious about dealing with rural Nova Scotia, which cannot at all sustain itself without Haligonian help. To hell with rural Nova Scotians wailing about the rural vs. urban political divide; Halifax is Nova Scotia's financial reason for existing. These small town subsidies are permanent economic hemorrhages. The province should force them to urbanise.

Well, the deed is done. Fast Frankie Corbett got 25 poor saps relocated to his riding in New Waterford, for God's sake - wonder what they did to deserve that. Only upside for them is that if they own a house here, they can sell it and buy something in Waterford for about 10% of the value. Stumblin' Sterling Belliveau got the same done for his riding of Shelburne. Lovable but Loopy Lenore Zann was the big winner, with a bunch of Agriculture folks getting shanghaied to Truro. Maybe they can commute. The most bizarre one is Fisheries going to Digby. Not that there aren't fisheries there. But the head office operation? WTH are they going to do being 4 hours away from the capitol? Does the Minister have to leave for Cabinet meetings at 4AM?

It is absolutely insane. This will cost a lot of money in travel, relocation, severance, lease-busting... just lunacy.
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  #18  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 9:26 PM
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I don't know much about what these departments really do, but the argument that the move puts them closer in touch with farmers or fishermen seems questionable. Halifax is the transportation hub of the province, so on average it is probably about as close to any given farm or fishing village as Truro or Digby. On top of this of course the legislature and other offices are in Halifax and the people are already there. It seems unlikely that this move could be anything but pork barrel politics.

That argument reminds me a lot of some arguments I've heard to put things out in the suburbs around Halifax. Most people live in the suburbs, people say, so new infrastructure should go out in the suburbs by Bayers Lake or maybe the airport. That logic is wrong because, while most people do live in suburban areas, they do not all live in the same suburban area. Neither Bayers Lake nor the airport are central locations for the whole municipality -- if you live in Cole Harbour you don't want to have to get to Bayers Lake, for example.

The Moncton hub city is yet another variant based on false premises. The number of people living within X kilometres of a given location is not actually that important. What's important is how many people can get to a given location easily.
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  #19  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 2:22 PM
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one of the dumbest politically motivated moves I have seen in a long time.
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  #20  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 3:23 PM
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So now, instead of being in one spot, all of these departments are massively scattered?...

How many of these offices have to be built or significantly renovated in their new locations?

This is crazy.
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