[Surrey] 3 Civic Plaza | 164m | 48 fl | Completed - Page 152

WarrenC12 · #**3021** Posted **Nov 13, 2019, 5:08 PM**

We are on SEFC NEU and the bills are all strata based, but they are big. Perhaps 2x-3x the amount of an equivalent natural gas boiler system, though really hard to estimate that, and natural gas prices are low right now.

Personally my issue is the lack of BCUC oversight (there have been recent articles about this) and the city consistently raising rates 3-4% per year for the last decade.

The other issue as you seem to have is the massive fixed fee. Our annual bill is probably 60% fixed and 40% usage. We use next to none during the summer and still have big bills. It's hardly motivation to conserve.

cairnstone · #**3022** Posted **Nov 13, 2019, 5:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We are on SEFC NEU and the bills are all strata based, but they are big. Perhaps 2x-3x the amount of an equivalent natural gas boiler system, though really hard to estimate that, and natural gas prices are low right now.

Personally my issue is the lack of BCUC oversight (there have been recent articles about this) and the city consistently raising rates 3-4% per year for the last decade.

The other issue as you seem to have is the massive fixed fee. Our annual bill is probably 60% fixed and 40% usage. We use next to none during the summer and still have big bills. It's hardly motivation to conserve.

Do you also have the cooling portion. As per lawsuit that will be hard as when buying into the property DEC was part of the development.

And my understanding the developer has no option to change as its tied to the property and they have to agree. Same thing DT Park Place is basically energy nuetral do to upgrades and future upgrades but they have to stay on central steam

WarrenC12 · #**3023** Posted **Nov 13, 2019, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairnstone

Do you also have the cooling portion. As per lawsuit that will be hard as when buying into the property DEC was part of the development.

And my understanding the developer has no option to change as its tied to the property and they have to agree. Same thing DT Park Place is basically energy nuetral do to upgrades and future upgrades but they have to stay on central steam

We have our own cooling tower, it is hooked into unit HVAC systems but no cooling is supplied by the NEU as I understand it.

Yes we are locked in, no way out. I don't dispute that. It's a good system and should be the wave of the future. But the billing and control isn't as transparent as other utilities which is frustrating.

cairnstone · #**3024** Posted **Nov 13, 2019, 6:03 PM**

most utility end up charging more in assorted fees than the cost of energy. I think Hydro is up around $30 just to have it connected with no usage. Last property I worked on has sensors that turn off the heat and cooling if a window is left open. It was supplied by a district energy system. No boilers in the building just 2 separate exchangers.

The bigger the building the larger the cost that gets passed on to the owners unfortunately. And I dont think DE is controlled by the Utility board like hydro is

e-clam9 · #**3025** Posted **Nov 14, 2019, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We are on SEFC NEU and the bills are all strata based, but they are big. Perhaps 2x-3x the amount of an equivalent natural gas boiler system, though really hard to estimate that, and natural gas prices are low right now.

Personally my issue is the lack of BCUC oversight (there have been recent articles about this) and the city consistently raising rates 3-4% per year for the last decade.

The other issue as you seem to have is the massive fixed fee. Our annual bill is probably 60% fixed and 40% usage. We use next to none during the summer and still have big bills. It's hardly motivation to conserve.

My strata at Park Ave West also see issue with the high energy price from Surrey City hot water bill. They mailed letters to 12 strata to request for comment about this issue but none of the strata replied !! We mailed the 2nd letter of complaint to Surrey couple weeks ago and no reply yet. Can I connect you or your strata chair to meet with our strata ? We need to voices to discuss with city of Surrey.

Early this year, we raised strata fee to cover this high energy cost from City of Surrey. I have told my strata that I can save a lot more if I install my own water boiler in my own unit (if they allow me) and most Home Depot water boiler comes with 5 to 10 years of free warranty too !!! I lived in houses for 30 years, so I know how to maintain the hot water boiler and how much it cost. It is not that much.

WarrenC12 · #**3026** Posted **Nov 14, 2019, 9:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by e-clam9

My strata at Park Ave West also see issue with the high energy price from Surrey City hot water bill. They mailed letters to 12 strata to request for comment about this issue but none of the strata replied !! We mailed the 2nd letter of complaint to Surrey couple weeks ago and no reply yet. Can I connect you or your strata chair to meet with our strata ? We need to voices to discuss with city of Surrey.

Early this year, we raised strata fee to cover this high energy cost from City of Surrey. I have told my strata that I can save a lot more if I install my own water boiler in my own unit (if they allow me) and most Home Depot water boiler comes with 5 to 10 years of free warranty too !!! I lived in houses for 30 years, so I know how to maintain the hot water boiler and how much it cost. It is not that much.

Sorry we are not in Surrey.

Vin · #**3027** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 12:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

We have our own cooling tower, it is hooked into unit HVAC systems but no cooling is supplied by the NEU as I understand it.

Yes we are locked in, no way out. I don't dispute that. It's a good system and should be the wave of the future. But the billing and control isn't as transparent as other utilities which is frustrating.

What's the average bill per month? I just heard it's over-the-top crazy amount.

Increase the population density there three times and you probably pay half as much.

WarrenC12 · #**3028** Posted **Nov 15, 2019, 12:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

What's the average bill per month? I just heard it's over-the-top crazy amount.

Increase the population density there three times and you probably pay half as much.

I believe the base amount is $10k. Our bills are up over $20k in the coldest parts of the winter.

This is for ~220+ units. It's around 25% of our strata fees over the course of the year.

I've followed the "plan" for densification and how that is supposed to impact the revenue vs. cost of the system, and it seems like they keep pushing things to the future, and even then it will become a cash cow for the city.

If the price of natural gas spikes, that might make it look better, but we shall see. So far it's about double.

e-clam9 · #**3029** Posted **Nov 16, 2019, 7:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I believe the base amount is $10k. Our bills are up over $20k in the coldest parts of the winter.

This is for ~220+ units. It's around 25% of our strata fees over the course of the year.

I've followed the "plan" for densification and how that is supposed to impact the revenue vs. cost of the system, and it seems like they keep pushing things to the future, and even then it will become a cash cow for the city.

If the price of natural gas spikes, that might make it look better, but we shall see. So far it's about double.

It is a trap !! They always use the words "high efficient", "cost effective" and "future rate decrease" to hook you up.... I had not paid attention to that energy cost when I purchased my unit, my fault? But my condo was less than 6 months old when I moved it, so no one really knew the yearly energy cost at that time. The only way out is to move and run away but I can't. I am planning to retire here (if the God allows me).

GMasterAres · #**3030** Posted **Nov 17, 2019, 6:32 AM**

Seems pretty crazy. One day something will have to happen. FYI in Verve down Fraser Highway, I pay just over $400 a month in strata for 1350 sq feet, doesn't include Hydro but our Hydro even with 2 kids is about $63 a month. We effectively do not need to heat this place at all, our heaters are all 365 days a year because the units are so well insulated and our thermal blinds help keep in heat in the winter and block heat in the summer.

Would be nice to have some cooling for those hot days in the Summer and we do face South, but even if I plugged in my own air conditioner or two, the power consumption will not be crazy to bring our hydro up that much.

Vin · #**3031** Posted **Nov 18, 2019, 9:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

I believe the base amount is $10k. Our bills are up over $20k in the coldest parts of the winter.

This is for ~220+ units. It's around 25% of our strata fees over the course of the year.

I've followed the "plan" for densification and how that is supposed to impact the revenue vs. cost of the system, and it seems like they keep pushing things to the future, and even then it will become a cash cow for the city.

If the price of natural gas spikes, that might make it look better, but we shall see. So far it's about double.

Even though the base $45 seems reasonable, $90 a month for the winter electric bills is definitely excessive. Most monthly modern condo Hydro bill is no more than $60.

People should band together to fight this. Someone's definitely making a profit out of this.

WarrenC12 · #**3032** Posted **Nov 18, 2019, 10:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

Even though the base $45 seems reasonable, $90 a month for the winter electric bills is definitely excessive. Most monthly modern condo Hydro bill is no more than $60.

People should band together to fight this. Someone's definitely making a profit out of this.

That's separate from hydro. It's an energy system for heat and hot water, along the lines of the steam system.

But ya, it's spendy.

jollyburger · #**3033** Posted **Nov 18, 2019, 10:58 PM**

I don't think I've ever seen one of these systems advertised as ever going to be cheaper than other energy supplies. SEFC was setup so early adopters aren't going to pay for all the infrastructure costs while the system was being built out.

WarrenC12 · #**3034** Posted **Nov 18, 2019, 11:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I don't think I've ever seen one of these systems advertised as ever going to be cheaper than other energy supplies. SEFC was setup so early adopters aren't going to pay for all the infrastructure costs while the system was being built out.

Here is the justification they use, part of this document (which is pretty interesting if you're into this stuff):

https://council.vancouver.ca/2018121...nts/spec1e.pdf

Check page 10. They use equivalencies to compute a per MWh rate of $113 for SEFC NEU, $126 for BC Hydro, and $89 for FortisBC gas.

Now $89 to $113 doesn't seem too bad, but the fine print adds $50/MWh for FortisBC as it's using a natural gas boiler that requires "installation, replacement, and maintenance". Total BS IMO, as all systems of this type require maintenance. I have seen nothing to suggest NEU systems are dramatically cheaper to maintain, or will need to be replaced less often.