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  #41  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2008, 8:38 PM
Spitfire75 Spitfire75 is offline
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Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian View Post
I think Fougere could do a good job though, she's a family friend. I would like to inform her of this forum, so she could get a glimpse of those who are proud of Halifax and want to be even more proud.

What does everybody think of this idea?

I think this forum has produced excellent discussion that seeks the truth in our urban planning community. We need to dispell alot of these myths out there (i.e. 4 stories max, etc)
Yes, most definitely. I wish this forum was our urban planning committee.
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  #42  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 1:01 PM
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I find a great irony in this whole leftist group...

Many of the people thwarting development are anti-poverty.
Agreed. There's nothing wrong with wanting to help eliminate or at least lessen poverty and in fact it should be a goal of every government and civic minded person because it's good for everyone.

What I don't understand is why the lefties in the city want to stick roadblocks on every project they can when they would definitely bring immediate work and contribute to the economy overall. It doesn't even seem to be about design really or truly making a good, functioning community.

Truthfully, if you ask me, the lefties in Halifax are like every other group. They simply like being listened to and want to maintain and expand their political influence for the sake of themselves. Nothing like working to justify your own existence about everything else

Yeah, why not tell Shelia about this place. It's not exactly hopping all of the time but it might be worth a nod.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 3:19 PM
phrenic phrenic is offline
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Are we talking about HCAP? Because if we are, please don't assume that every left-of-centre person in HRM is on their side. We're not. HCAP are a bunch of idealistic buffoons who don't know the first thing about how to appropriately address poverty issues.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 3:54 PM
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Originally Posted by phrenic View Post
Are we talking about HCAP? Because if we are, please don't assume that every left-of-centre person in HRM is on their side. We're not. HCAP are a bunch of idealistic buffoons who don't know the first thing about how to appropriately address poverty issues.
Well, to be fair I don't think left - right labels are very accurate anyway but no I wasn't directly talking about those nuts. Just as a whole I have found that the left, for lack of a better term, in Halifax has become not really even about left principles but about a handful of socially stagnated ideals such as anti-development and basically a podium to rant against "the rich old boys" whoever they are exactly without providing anything as a real alternative.

Maybe I've been reading the Coast too much instead of wrapping fish in it as would seem to have been more appropriate over the last few years
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  #45  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:24 PM
phrenic phrenic is offline
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Just as a whole I have found that the left, for lack of a better term, in Halifax has become not really even about left principles but about a handful of socially stagnated ideals such as anti-development and basically a podium to rant against "the rich old boys" whoever they are exactly without providing anything as a real alternative.
There are certain groups that would fall under this criticism, although much of the same can be said just as easily about groups on the other side of the political spectrum. Activist groups on both sides tend to suffer from over-simplified and impractical idealism which serves only to undermine their causes in the eyes of the public. Often debates are then framed as if they are black and white like Anti-Development versus Any-Development, Anti-gentrification versus doesn't-give-a-shit-about-the-neighborhood-let's-just-build-these-condominiums, etc. Your attempt to paint all local left wingers all with the same brush showcases this problem.

Anyway, I apologize for the rant, I just can't stand it when people make broad generalizations like this. I won't jack the thread anymore.


//////////

So anyway, I don't see any logical reason, golf course view planes or otherwise, why this development on the whole, would be opposed. I'm sure the condo tower may get some people's knickers in a knot, but overall it is a fantastic project that will likely be the best thing to ever happen to this part of Dartmouth.
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  #46  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Your attempt to paint all local left wingers all with the same brush showcases this problem.
Re-read my posts then and you'll see that I both mentioned various groups (not only lefties) as well as the fact that I find the labels themselves unsatisfactory.

I'm not painting anyone with a single brush anymore than they have painted themselves no matter how diseparate the beliefs of the various scuffy crowds that inhabit the core. If people self identify as such then I've got the right to identify them as a whole as well.

Personally, like I said, I don't think most of the vocal few are really "left" so to speak or are often even bright enough to know what that really means but one way or another if you call yourself something then others can too.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2008, 7:27 PM
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Public Hearing:

July 8, 2008

Halifax City Hall - 6pm

Case 00798

Dartmuth Marine Slips Redevelopment
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  #48  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 3:07 AM
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!!!!!!!!!! I'm THERE! And one day before my birthday! What a present that would be!!!!!
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  #49  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 4:41 AM
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  #50  
Old Posted Jun 21, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Those reports and hearing minutes make for fascinating if not depressing reading. How foolhardy was it for Dartmouth council 30 years ago to set height limits and viewplanes for downtown development? There has been virtually no development since that time. One wonders why council would have been concerned with putting in place things that inhibit the already weak development climate for the area.

The comments at the various hearings were surprisingly supportive, but the usual voices (Ruffman and Pacey) naturally showed up to decry the proposal. Pacey went on about preserving the views from various old 2-storey buildings in the area. Good lord. Some of the other comments are simply hilarious. Someone asked whether the design had taken into account climate change effects so that if a "large ship" broke free of its moorings and crashed into the site, would the buildings fall down... criminy.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jun 22, 2008, 9:25 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Someone asked whether the design had taken into account climate change effects so that if a "large ship" broke free of its moorings and crashed into the site, would the buildings fall down... criminy.
You don't know how hard I just laughed. This is a prime example of the rediculous rhetoric of the anti-development community. We should maybe have a thread to archive a "Hall of Stupidity" or something. It would be great to pull out pages upon pages of this kind of material at a public hearing. It really shows that the opponents of development are grasping at straws, while seemingly oblivious to the declining heritage properties around the city.

Pathetic.
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  #52  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 8:24 PM
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The Heritage Trust drives me nuts.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...t-harbour.html
Quote:
Dartmouth development threatens Harbour view: heritage advocates
Last Updated: Monday, June 23, 2008 | 1:49 PM AT
CBC News

The Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia is worried that a development planned for the former Dartmouth Marine Slips could jeopardize views of Halifax Harbour.

W.M. Fares & Associates, developer of the multi-million dollar residential, commercial and institutional project, has asked for changes to the height restrictions along Dartmouth's waterfront for three of the 10 proposed buildings.

Heritage advocates have written to the Harbour East Community Council outlining their objections to a move that would contravene Dartmouth's view plane rules. Height restrictions are in place to protect views of the harbour from the Dartmouth Commons and the Brightwood Golf Club.

Philip Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust, is worried about the move to amend the rules.

"They've been in place for a number of years and they're working well. That's another example where a consensus was reached and now one developer is asking to change the municipal planning strategy strictly for their benefit," Pacey said.

The development — called the Anchorage at Dartmouth Cove — proposes a mix of townhouses and highrise units, a 200-room hotel, office and retail space as well as a private marina and cruise ship docking facility.

If it goes ahead, it would cover 12 hectares and include 10 buildings — some of them built on in-filled water lots. The company announced the $150-million project in 2005. An HRM staff report said while three buildings would exceed the maximum height restrictions, they would not affect the view planes.

A public hearing on the proposed changes will be held July 8.

Protecting view planes of the harbour from Halifax Citadel Hill have been raised repeatedly during development disputes on the Halifax side of the harbour.
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  #53  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 8:32 PM
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Why doesn't the HT just stay on the Halifax side of the water and let one area of HRM grow without opposition? And whoever wrote this article needs to do some research its not the Anchorage....anyways i don't think the HT stand a chance on this one they already have their boots filled.
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  #54  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 10:20 PM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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A couple of those comments on that article just irritate me like you wouldn't believe. Blocking the view of downtown Halifax! That woman said this would block the view of downtown Halifax from the Common!
As I said in the comments, she needs to get out a map and figure out that this actually wouldn't be blocking any of the harbour from any point on the Commons...
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  #55  
Old Posted Jun 23, 2008, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smevo View Post
The Heritage Trust drives me nuts.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...t-harbour.html

Philip Pacey, president of the Heritage Trust, is worried about the move to amend the rules.

"They've been in place for a number of years and they're working well. That's another example where a consensus was reached and now one developer is asking to change the municipal planning strategy strictly for their benefit," Pacey said.
Well, considering that nothing has been built in downtown Dartmouth in 25 years, that is one way to look at it. But the sensible way to look at it is that laws that protect a view of a derelict shipyard from a private golf course are (a) probably not very good laws and (b) probably have a lot to do with why there has been zero development in the area.

Pacey and the HT are on the run these days and are losing in situations where a couple of years earlier they would have totally stonewalled things. Long overdue, but watch out for them to try even more desperate tactics now that they are on a losing streak and the tide of public opinion has turned agaisnt them.
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  #56  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
A couple of those comments on that article just irritate me like you wouldn't believe. Blocking the view of downtown Halifax! That woman said this would block the view of downtown Halifax from the Common!
As I said in the comments, she needs to get out a map and figure out that this actually wouldn't be blocking any of the harbour from any point on the Commons...
I had a look on a map an oddly enough the only view this would block from the Commons is the view of the Woodside Oil Refinery...strange...isn't this the same view HT was attempting to save from some development in Halifax?
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  #57  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2008, 12:45 AM
hfx_chris hfx_chris is offline
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Yup. If you draw a straight line between the Citadel and the oil refinery, it goes right through the empty hole in the ground where the United Gulf towers are proposed. Twice now they're fought for our rights to be able to gaze upon the shimmering flame of fuel burning off at the refinery. Those noble souls.
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  #58  
Old Posted Jun 24, 2008, 4:20 AM
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Well, really, what's more attractive than a refinery?
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  #59  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2008, 10:48 PM
JONOJOE JONOJOE is offline
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Originally Posted by skyscraper_1 View Post
http://www.faresinc.com/





An older rendering. I am not sure if it is still valid


This is one project I am looking forward too. Downtown Dartmouth and its skyline will change drastically...for the better.
I know francis quite well, he's actually somewhat related to me.. he's asked for my help with the public hearing.. I'm going to be there to speak a few words in support for the project, and i think anybody who feels they'd liek to have kings warf a reality should do the same.. july 8th city hall..

ps. drop by and say hi if you're there, it would be nice to put some faces to names..
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  #60  
Old Posted Jun 28, 2008, 3:23 PM
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I'll be there talking. I'm gonna use heritages tactics of using Elmo to try and help my case for this development.
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