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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 30, 2009, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
What... HT protecting holes in the ground again? My word..

But seriously, it's kitty corner to St. Paul's. The current WTC is also next door, and the TD building is across the street. Is the HT seriously claiming that nothing large scale can be built within a 1-2 block radius of a heritage building without their disapproval?

Oh wait, I think I knew that already...
Even however many years ago the church was built I think the people knew then it was in the middle of town and that towns don't stay the same for long.

For anyone who might be curious the HT is now 50 years old. I was reading an article on them and apparently they lost the first fight they ever picked. It was something to do with the SMU Rink (Huskies).
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 1:32 AM
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
I am sorry to say its not a pedway. The renderings show its a five storey glass atrium between the buildings at ground level. Therefore Grafton street is no more as it will have this structure built on top of it.

That is where the required convention floors space comes from
SDM, do you have these renders? From what was shown on the news it was rather indistinct which option they had gone for.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 1:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
SDM, do you have these renders? From what was shown on the news it was rather indistinct which option they had gone for.
Jon

I have seen them yes, but do not have a copy. From my understanding their is only one option.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 1:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ View Post
Even however many years ago the church was built I think the people knew then it was in the middle of town and that towns don't stay the same for long.

For anyone who might be curious the HT is now 50 years old. I was reading an article on them and apparently they lost the first fight they ever picked. It was something to do with the SMU Rink (Huskies).
They have lost a lot of fights over the decades.

The problem is not a heritage trust in general, its the current directors who are the problem. This city needs a heritage trust, but a trust that is willing to compromise and work towards such.

To say it would affect St Pauls Chruch, which is what 3 blocks away, is more then a desperate ploy to get people to concerned.

If that was the case the downtown would never be what it is today
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 1:51 PM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
I am sorry to say its not a pedway. The renderings show its a five storey glass atrium between the buildings at ground level. Therefore Grafton street is no more as it will have this structure built on top of it.

That is where the required convention floors space comes from
That would be a disaster that the top part of downtown would never recover from in my opinion. There are already too many super-blocks (Metro Centre/Trade Centre and Scotia Square) plus a few large footprint buildings such as the Prince George and Cambridge Suites that take up entire blocks and offer no street life. Argyle and Blowers are the only streets with anything going for them above Barrington and this project will seriously hurt Argyle if it goes ahead as described - blank walls, brick and glass.

I seriously hope that Cogswell is the choice. If HRM and the Province push forward with the Argyle convention centre they will be throwing out most of the major principles put forward by HRMbyDesign. Nothing like spending a million dollars and three years and than wrecking the whole endeavour with the first major downtown project. How will HRM possibly ask developers to follow these rules when they can't even be bothered?
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 31, 2009, 2:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Halifax Hillbilly View Post
That would be a disaster that the top part of downtown would never recover from in my opinion. There are already too many super-blocks (Metro Centre/Trade Centre and Scotia Square) plus a few large footprint buildings such as the Prince George and Cambridge Suites that take up entire blocks and offer no street life. Argyle and Blowers are the only streets with anything going for them above Barrington and this project will seriously hurt Argyle if it goes ahead as described - blank walls, brick and glass.

I seriously hope that Cogswell is the choice. If HRM and the Province push forward with the Argyle convention centre they will be throwing out most of the major principles put forward by HRMbyDesign. Nothing like spending a million dollars and three years and than wrecking the whole endeavour with the first major downtown project. How will HRM possibly ask developers to follow these rules when they can't even be bothered?
Excellent points

As expressed in HRM by design the site in question is allowed 9 stories if they provide a public area (convention centre). If they don't have that they are limited to 6 stories i believe.

if the project goes through i agree with you, HRM by design has already failed.
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  #87  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 4:36 PM
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News out in allnovascotia, Rodney and Kelly have come public that the Herald lands are the only proposal they are requesting further information on.

They further said the reason for not selecting the Cogswell street area was that it would conflict the principals of HRM by Design.


Funny, so would the herald lands.....
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  #88  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 7:31 PM
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How does that conflict with HRM by Design?
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  #89  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 8:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hfx_chris View Post
How does that conflict with HRM by Design?
Under HRM by design the site is limited to 6 stories, but is allowed a post bonus height (public area being convention centre) to 9 stories.

I think its a poor location for the convention centre.
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  #90  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
Under HRM by design the site is limited to 6 stories, but is allowed a post bonus height (public area being convention centre) to 9 stories.

I think its a poor location for the convention centre.
How does the Cogswell street area conflict with HRM by design?
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  #91  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2009, 11:21 PM
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I agree. This is a bad development. The last thing we need in that area is another super block filled with blank walls. Extremely disappointing news.
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  #92  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 12:42 AM
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Actually isnt there going to be a pedway over Granville maintianing the natural street grid?

I think if this is the case this is best location. Its in the heart of the downtown and would rather save the Cogswell lands as a place to build taller buildings.
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  #93  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 1:38 AM
Halifax Hillbilly Halifax Hillbilly is offline
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Awful, awful decision. And where was the public process?
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  #94  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 1:09 PM
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Ex-Herald site chosen for convention centre
Rank Group’s property in downtown Halifax selected over Cogswell bid
By CLARE MELLOR Business Reporter
Wed. Feb 4 - 4:46 AM


The former Halifax Herald site in downtown Halifax. (Eric Wynne / Staff)





The former Halifax Herald site on Argyle Street has been chosen as the location for a new downtown Halifax convention centre.

A selection committee from the province and the Halifax Regional Municipality announced Tuesday they have chosen the Rank Group, which proposed the Herald site, over another candidate, The Hardman Group, which had proposed the Cogswell Interchange as the site for the new convention centre.

"We are very happy to qualify and move to the next step," said Joe Ramia, one of the principals of the Rank Group, a group of investors led by the Ramia family. The Herald site is owned by Mr. Ramia’s Argyle Developments.

"We hope that it would make an improvement (to the) downtown for sure, especially in the heart of downtown," said Mr. Ramia, who said the selection committee informed him about the choice Tuesday morning.

A panel of provincial and municipal appointees narrowed the short list to two firms this fall from the original six firms who responded to a call last spring for a new convention centre.

Since then, HRM determined that the Cogswell Street site, proposed by the Hardman Group, would "not be made available for a convention centre, based on the principles outlined in HRM by Design," said a release issued Tuesday by Premier Rodney MacDonald’s office.

However, the Hardman Group called Tuesday’s decision premature and that it should have been given a better opportunity to argue its case. It has posted the proposal for the Cogswell Interchange site on a website (www.reclaimtheinterchange) and is inviting the public to weigh in on the subject.

"The next step was to invite the finalists to submit a proposal explaining in more detail how their project would work, how it would fit financial models. . . . What they are saying, basically, is that even though we qualified, they are not going to enable us to go to that step because they don’t want to consider the Cogswell Interchange lands as an available site," said executive vice-president Colin Whitcomb.

"We don’t really know why," he said.

The province and the city would benefit from an open and competitive request for proposals for the new convention centre, Mr. Whitcomb said.

Right now, it is not known if or when the convention centre will be a reality.

The next step is for the province and Halifax Regional Municipality to work on a detailed project plan for the convention centre with cost estimates and financing options.

"Our existing convention centre has served us well over the years, resulting in millions of dollars annually in direct and indirect economic impacts for the community," Halifax Mayor Peter Kelly said Tuesday in a release.

"HRM is interested in examining in more detail ways in which a larger facility could contribute to the continued growth of our economy, while contributing to our community’s reputation as leaders in . . . hosting of world-class events."

While Rank has submitted a preliminary proposal for the convention centre, Mr. Ramia said it will work with government to determine exact requirements for the new centre.

"We are the only ones who have qualified, so now the process becomes do they want to do it and how do we do it?""

He could not reveal a timeline for the project.

"That’s a decision that the city and the province will have to make. We are totally dependent on how quickly they are able and want to move."

The convention centre is just one part of Rank’s proposal for the Herald site.

"This will be a multi-use development, which could have a hotel, residential, retail, offices. It is not just a convention centre. It is a major project. The convention centre is just part of that proposal," Mr. Ramia said.

Argyle Developments bought the Herald property in 2007 from the estate of the late cable TV mogul Charles Keating. It was listed for $15 million. In 2002, Mr. Keating bought the property from the Dennis family, which owns The Halifax Herald Ltd.

( cmellor@herald.ca)

’This will be a multi-use development, which could have a hotel, residential, retail, offices. It is not just a convention centre. It is a major project.’

joe ramiaRank Group
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  #95  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 1:12 PM
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here's the link to the Hardman proposal

www.reclaimtheinterchange.ca
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  #96  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 3:20 PM
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The Hardmans Group proposal for the Cogswell land is a nice looking proposal and I cannot see how it would not comply with HRM By Design?! They are proposing to do a full urban design study before the architects even start anything. This seems really odd to me. And I like the idea of a signature building. And I see they also leaked that there will be a new Hilton Hotel downtown. I'm assuming that will either be in International Place or on the Trinity site.
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  #97  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 3:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
The Hardmans Group proposal for the Cogswell land is a nice looking proposal and I cannot see how it would not comply with HRM By Design?! They are proposing to do a full urban design study before the architects even start anything. This seems really odd to me. And I like the idea of a signature building. And I see they also leaked that there will be a new Hilton Hotel downtown. I'm assuming that will either be in International Place or on the Trinity site.
As stated before, the Herald site proposal violates more HRM by design elements then the cogswell in my opinion.
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  #98  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 7:21 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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I think you guys are out of your mind if you would rather have the herald lots look like they do right now.

The Cogswell proposal doesn't even have any renderings. And would it not violate the HRMbyDesign timelines for Cogswell? How much public money would they need to tear down a section of the interchange? Its just not feasible in the near future and I would be worried about a project never getting off the ground. Plus, Cogswell isn't as bad an eyesore as the Herald site, which ruins a whole streetscape that would otherwise be great.

It makes wayy more sense for it to go on the Herald lands. Think about it, an ugly lot would be replaced, there would be more towers in a part of the city that needs them right now, and there would be alot less demolition required. It would also mean that the Metro Centre could expand, yet still be in close proximity to the convention centre.

Cogswell is years away, and as much as I would like to see it gone, I want to be realistic for the city. International Place will end up filling a good gap and eventually I hope to see a comprehensive plan for the WHOLE Cogswell site.

I'm just worried about the heritage crew, they have managed to restrict too much economic growth in this city and I am really afraid of what impact they will have on the future growth of the city. I wonder how much money they have cost developers... now thats a crime.
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  #99  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 7:23 PM
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hey SDM, how exactly does the cogswell proposal violate HRM by design?
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  #100  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2009, 7:35 PM
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worldlyhaligonian...they already had renderings for the herald lands all set to go before a request for convention center proposals was made. If the original mix-use development had proceeded they would have already been in the approval process stage...so in other words...this convention center is going to take much longer to complete and therefore your Ugly lots will be around that much longer. So i guess you are the one that is "out of your mind" because YOU are the one who wants these Lot's around for a longer amount of time...ohhh and the original proposal had a couple of towers to so that segment of your argument is void...also if your looking for a perfect opportunity to develop the interchange as a whole....THIS IS IT
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