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  #121  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
I never said it will. I said I could see Dallas / Ft. Worth making a case for supporting two NFL teams because of the area's rich football heritage before I could see the Bay Area making the same case.
You have to differentiate between support for the league/sport, and support for the team. A second NFL team in Dallas will never work because everyone is a Cowboys fan. Similarly, Boston could easily support a second MLB team, like they did in the past, because baseball is huge in New England. In reality, it would never work, because the baseball fans are all Red Sox fans. They would never convert to another team. Or, putting an NFL team in Milwaukee wouldn't work, because all those people are Packers fans.

The best place where putting a second/third/fourth team from a league in a metro area, that is being discussed with some chance of it actually happening in the near future is putting a second NHL team in the Toronto area (or in Hamilton, which is like having NFL teams in Washington and Baltimore). I think there's enough people in the Toronto area that are not Maple Leafs fans, but are hockey fans, that a new team could carve out a fan base.

There are two other instances that have been discussed in the sports/business world. One other one was that the Sacramento Kings came very close a few years ago to moving to Anaheim and becoming the Anaheim Royals. This would be a third NBA team in the Los Angeles area. While it may have worked, I personally think that would have been too much saturation, or the Royals' success would come at the expense of the Clippers.

The other instance is that a study commissioned by Major League Baseball to understand new markets found that the best, most underserved market without an MLB team is one that they had never even thought about: northern New Jersey. Apparently New Jersey is a better market for an MLB team than Montreal, Charlotte, San Antonio, Austin, Portland, Las Vegas, and all these other cities that have been thrown around as expansion or relocation sites. I guess New Jersey has enough of an identity to carve out a fanbase, but I was under the impression that northern New Jersey is all Yankees fans, and I can't really see them leaving their team.
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  #122  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:25 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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But New Jersey people love and are proud of all things New Jersey.

Houston could support two NFL teams but the second team would have to be the Saints or Cowboys because there's plenty of both fanbases in driving distance and in the metro area.
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  #123  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ThePhun1 View Post
Are you saying another baseball or basketball team couldn't set up shop in, say, New Jersey and not do really well?

The one that's in over its head is the Bay Area, it simply can't support two franchises in both sports like it used to. It's not decidedly richer or bigger than metros like Houston, Dallas and Washington/Baltimore. And the Bay Area tends to skew toward the San Francisco and San Jose area, so I suppose there's no room for Oakland anymore, even after decades of tradition.
At this point? No. They are 40 or 50 years late for that. The Yankees and a much lesser extent, the Mets are entrenched into N. Jersey culture. The Nets moved to Brooklyn and they're down to just the Devils now.

San Fran/ Oakland have had their own MLB/ NFL teams (on/off) for decades and California in general has a love/hate relationship with their sports franchises which is why they seem to move around a lot. What are the Angels called now? The Nabisco Orange County Anaheim Angels of Los Angels brought to you by Carl's Jr.?

As for two NFL teams in the DFW area, they possibly could have gotten away with that before the "America's Team" era during the 90's but no way now. Even with the emergence of the Houston Texans in an nearly equally as large of metro area, all of Texas outside of Houston is still loyal to the Cowboys so a new team in the MetroPlex would have a hell of a time surviving in the Cowgirl's own backyard.
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  #124  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:31 AM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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It would be a challenge but I wouldn't say it's impossible.

And yeah, no way in Dallas but very possibly in Houston if the Cowboys or Saints were uprooted.
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  #125  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 2:24 AM
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As far as MLS goes it is basically Sacramento versus Cincy for the last expansion team for this round with Detroit possibly sneaking in--the MLS isn't shy about saying that. The last team was supposed to be announced before 2018 (right after the Nashville announcement) but the MLS postponed since Sac lost its major donor but is shovel ready with their stadium and Cincy is not shovel ready for a stadium but appears to have the donors.
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  #126  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 2:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
As for two NFL teams in the DFW area, they possibly could have gotten away with that before the "America's Team" era during the 90's but no way now. Even with the emergence of the Houston Texans in an nearly equally as large of metro area, all of Texas outside of Houston is still loyal to the Cowboys so a new team in the MetroPlex would have a hell of a time surviving in the Cowgirl's own backyard.
Hell, I'd argue the pervasiveness of "America's Team" extends throughout the entire Southwest, not just Texas (and some parts of Houston, maybe?). If it's not the Cowboys, then it's the Denver Broncos. I see both teams' jerseys throughout Arizona (caveat: I don't live in greater Phoenix) far more than I see Cardinals jerseys and Sun Devil Stadium used to be notorious for the amount of Cowboys fans in the stands back when the Cardinals and Cowboys played in the same division.
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  #127  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 2:44 AM
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Man, I wish Portland could snag a baseball team. I never much cared for the Blazers. The Timbers are great, but it's just not the same as taking in a baseball game.
i still think vera katz screwed the pooch. were you here when one of the local tribes offered to pay for the construction of an entire stadium had the expos relocated here? the indians would have paid for a stadium in return for rights to build a casino in portland. lots of wampum for everybody! oh well.....
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  #128  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 9:07 AM
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Jonesy55 pretty much covered the only example Wimbledon FC becoming MK Dons; the fallout was pretty toxic. That former supporters of Wimbledon FC went on to launch a professional club, and see it promoted from the ninth tier to the third tier in 15 years is a testament to the game though and a genuinely inspirational story. They’ve just started demolition work on the site which will house their new stadium, which so happens to be 100m down the road from the old Wimbledon FC stadium site.

You also have the story behind FC United of Manchester which was established back in 2005 by disgruntled Manchester United fans protesting at the purchase of the club by the Glazers. The club is run on democratic lines; i.e. each supporter gets a single share in the club and a say on club affairs.

Rugby teams are a slightly different bottle of fish, the game professionalised later than football and clubs lacked the large parcels of land for modern venues to generate the revenues needed. Pretty much all of the non-London clubs still play in the same cities they started in, but in London, many of clubs had to rent, stadium share or became unintentionally nomadic out of financial necessity. Things are changing though; London Irish (currently stadium sharing in Reading and ironically nicknamed the Exiles) are relocating to west London for the 2019/20 season at Brentford’s new ground. Saracens ended their nomadic existence by rebuilding the Barnet Copthall athletics stadium in north London by incorporating temporary and retractable seating. There are also more games held at Twickenham, Wembley and the Olympic Stadium to drive revenues and attendances of the London sides.

There has been some furore over West Ham renting the Olympic Stadium, but tax-payer funded stadiums that are gifted to teams, or teams making lavish demands and ultimatums is an alien concept in the UK.
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  #129  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 10:06 AM
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I'd be surprised if the Spurs move.

1. Nothing indicates Austin will build an NBA quality arena any time in the near or even medium term future . UT is eventually going to tear down and replace the Erwin Center with something else that's smaller, more college-oriented, and use that existing site to expand their medical school. That means there's nowhere in the central city where you could put a pro arena. I wouldn't be surprised if a private investor proposed building a big pro sports facility in a place like Round Rock, but would there be enough momentum?

2. The Spurs are too popular and too good and too established(the team started way back in 1967, its one of the oldest pro teams of any sport in the sunbelt). It would be really distastful if they left their home and there would probably be major political backlash. The City of San Antonio has sunk a LOT of money into luring and then retaining pro sports(see Alamodome), the Spurs are their only success so far. Local leaders would freak out if the Spurs threatened to leave and they'd bribe them with arena improvements.

3. Austin and San Antonio are basically one market. It's only a short drive from one city to the other. Eventually they are likely to become a single CSA.

.....

To be honest I don't see Austin getting a pro sports team anytime soon unless its MLS, and that would sooner go to San Antonio. My impression is that the city's political culture makes it unlikely to spend public funds on a pro sports facility, and while it is a wealthy city none of it's elites are interested enough in sports to buy a team and build a stadium or arena for it. And geographically, there's no great place to put a big stadium or arena, unless it went out in the suburbs.
San Anton. & Austin are close enough that a midway location like San Marcos or New Braunfels could possibly host a baseball or football stadium, similar to the midway location of the Texas Rangers between Ft. Worth & Dallas. I doubt the Padres relocate from S.D. They have a fairly new stadium (Petco Park), very nice, right in the heart of downtown. Attendance has been pretty good even when they have lousy teams. With a good team, attendance could be right up there with the best teams. Expansion will get a team to San Anton/Austin. With any civic leadeship, SD could be in line for NBA & NHL teams if they build a new arena. Football, not so sure. The concussion/brain damage issue has clouded the future of football as it is currently played. Youth and even high school tackle football teams are dwindling in some states as parents won't let their kids participate. Still going strong in Texas though. Why SA/Austin will get a team.

Last edited by CaliNative; Apr 10, 2018 at 10:27 AM.
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  #130  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post

I can see Austin landing the San Antonio Spurs (NBA) via relocation. Austin has been home to a Spurs development league affiliate for many years, and not long ago, the team even went so far as to change its name from the Austin Toros to the Austin Spurs. Austin continues to grow at a fast pace, and could potentially surpass San Antonio in population by 2028.
LOL. San Antonio is never going to lose the Spurs, especially not to its oft-rival Austin.

If Austin is going to get a major league sports team, it is going to be the Columbus Crew (MLS).
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  #131  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 12:06 PM
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Rather then discussing if Austin can poach the Spurs, a better question might be which city gets and NFL team. Perhaps San Marcos would be a good location for a joint team.

Portland can certainly support and NFL team too but unless Phil Knight, or some other rich person, wants to pay for a stadium I don't see it happening. Portland has no good stadium and the is no way taxpayers in Oregon are going to pay to build a billion dollar stadium.

In the NBA neither New Orleans nor Memphis are viable long-term locations given the small populations and GDPs of those markets. Its a given that one of them, probably New Orleans, goes to Seattle. Kansas City could be a good option as well given that they already have an arena ready.
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  #132  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:26 PM
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That would be great honestly. Would love to see more teams in Canada.
3 is a realistic number for Canada over the short to medium term. MLB will return to Montreal. I just can't see that city going without it indefinitely. Vancouver will probably focus on getting back into the NBA first but expect them to go after a MLB after that.

It would be nice if both went in the American League. I always thought it a shame that the Jays and Expos never played each other.
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  #133  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 1:32 PM
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portlands tv market is already larger than a lot of cities that have nfl teams. i bet if nike or under armor got involved, then there might be some more traction to get something built here. forget putting that monster downtown though. where would it go?? you'd have to stick it out in beaverton near nike headquarters. salt lake city seems compelling too considering the front range is one of the fastest growing areas in the country.
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  #134  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 2:22 PM
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There have been a handful of Rugby teams, mostly because they can't find a suitable stadium in their local area and therefore move away, but usually they say that is temporary and look to move back whenever they can. There's only one football (soccer) club that has done so in the UK as far as I know, Wimbledon FC moved to Milton Keynes and renamed themselves 'MK Dons'. That was very controversial and it hasn't happened again since.

With the promotion/relegation system in soccer football pretty much all towns and cities already have a club playing at some level and the usual way to get that club into the big league is to find some money from somewhere, achieve success on the field and get the team promoted through the leagues until they end up in the top tier.

The fans of Wimbledon FC didn't accept the move of their team and started their own club right down at the bottom of the English league system after the original Wimbledon moved to Milton Keynes. Ironically the two clubs now play in the same division (3rd tier of English football).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reloca..._Milton_Keynes
I wish that North American leagues evolved this way. Then we wouldn't have fan bases being devestated by the loss of a team, owners getting public money through threats to leave, teams parachuted into cities that have no interest, cities that could support teams going decades without one, leagues like the NHL awarding franchises based on how evenly they're spread out on a map..... With a promotion and relegation system, teams end up where the fans are. Simple.

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Toronto has no real interest in the NFL in any significant way, I don't see the Bills moving.
I agree. The NFL wants cities that love football, period. It doesn't want cities that only support the sport at its highest level. Baltimore got the Ravens in no small part because it supported the Stallions so enthusiastically. American fans love football from high school on up. Toronto's not like that. The Argos are barely supported and university and high school football might as well not exist as far as everyday fans are concerned. Even NFL games played in Toronto had trouble getting butts in seats. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a different culture.
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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 4:49 PM
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No city where ponds don’t freeze in the winter should have an NHL team.
Just outside of Nashville this winter...the Harpeth River.



And I would suggest, there are mostly long time Nashville residents at the hockey games who are longtime supporters and not 'PredWings or PredHawks' (i.e.; they support the Preds unless there favorite team is visiting).
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 5:06 PM
ThePhun1 ThePhun1 is offline
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San Anton. & Austin are close enough that a midway location like San Marcos or New Braunfels could possibly host a baseball or football stadium, similar to the midway location of the Texas Rangers between Ft. Worth & Dallas. I doubt the Padres relocate from S.D. They have a fairly new stadium (Petco Park), very nice, right in the heart of downtown. Attendance has been pretty good even when they have lousy teams. With a good team, attendance could be right up there with the best teams. Expansion will get a team to San Anton/Austin. With any civic leadeship, SD could be in line for NBA & NHL teams if they build a new arena. Football, not so sure. The concussion/brain damage issue has clouded the future of football as it is currently played. Youth and even high school tackle football teams are dwindling in some states as parents won't let their kids participate. Still going strong in Texas though. Why SA/Austin will get a team.
Football maybe. A baseball team would have to be in one city or another. Too much traffic and not enough people.

San Diego is not getting an NBA team unless the Clippers come back.
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 5:14 PM
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Everyone here calls the NBA team the Pels, i.e. Did you see the Pels game last night? Hoping they beat the Spurs on Wednesday to maintain the 5th seed in the playoffs.

Gayle Benson is the full owner of the Pelicans. All of the family disputes have been resolved through a settlement.

Also, remember there are 3 million people within a 90 minute drive of the Smoothie King Center, and the games are broadcast across the entire Gulf South from the Florida Panhandle to east Texas (2.5 million households). It's a bigger market than most people realize.
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 5:15 PM
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NASHVILLE Sports Franchises

With the MLS coming to Nashville, the City will now have franchises in 3 of the 5 major league sports. They will have NFL Football (fairly strong and successful), NHL Hockey (Best sports franchise in America per ESPN) and soon, MLS Soccer which will play in the largest soccer specific stadium in the US).

However, I think the city would not be willing to build a baseball stadium at this time as the Soccer Stadium will break ground this year and the Titans will no doubt be antsy for a new stadium in a few years. The current NFL stadium is 19 years old and our Music City brand almost requires a domed stadium to accommodate all the great events that Nashville would impressively host.

If somehow, Nashville were to get a baseball team, I would lean towards the possibility of the Oakland A's being that team. We have their Triple A team which is a relationship they seemed to have encouraged. The minor league stadium is listed as one of the best in the country and has some of the best attendance numbers.

A major league baseball stadium would have to be paid for by private concerns. I would like to see a 35,000 seat stadium along the lines of Omaha's Ameritrade Stadium.

I would think the Rays would look at Charlotte, but Charlotte couldn't come up with a Soccer stadium and may be looking at building a new NFL stadium also.

And oh yeah, Nashville has the SEC also, such as it is. Vandy football has improved, but gets battered by the top talent in the conference. They are competitive in most other sports (recruiting in Men's and Women's Basketball this year is among the best in the country). They are contending for national championships in at least three sports and have won three national titles since that big school from the east last won one. So don't underestimate the level of college sports in our area, either.
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 5:17 PM
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Just outside of Nashville this winter...the Harpeth River.


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  #140  
Old Posted Apr 10, 2018, 5:47 PM
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With the MLS coming to Nashville, the City will now have franchises in 3 of the 5 major league sports. They will have NFL Football (fairly strong and successful), NHL Hockey (Best sports franchise in America per ESPN) and soon, MLS Soccer which will play in the largest soccer specific stadium in the US).
Last time I was there, a Predators' game just finished and people were emptying in the streets in their jerseys and the juxtaposition between rabid drunken hockey fans and the honky-tonk music in the background was a total trip. Nashville is a definite hockey town from what I experienced and I was born and raised in the northeast where they eat, sleep and shit hockey.
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