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  #221  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:15 PM
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Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
LA is pretty unique in that regard with highly desirable areas for young people separated from the core by miles of low-density detached neighborhoods.
LA’s urban core is DT to Santa Monica, north of the 10 and south of the mountains—our “Manhattan.” There’s a clear difference in built form, activity, amenities, and appeal that distinguish it from the rest of the metro area (and the traffic to, from, and within proves it). And in terms of geographic area, it’s relatively compact, so LA’s not that spread out if you view the area in question as a singular entity instead of a collection of nodes separated by a bunch of nothing. But I’ll concede that the lack of transit and contiguity supports the latter view, although this will change over time.

“Low density” is also relative. Is 10,000/square mile low density? Because that’s what the detached SFH nabes average at the very least.
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  #222  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
There’s definitely been a lot of circular arguments in this thread, but I can’t help but feel like you in particular have been a bit all over the place from bringing up personal (family) and cultural (Motown) connections to stating that the cities’ respective Art Deco buildings could be swapped for one another (when objectively speaking that’s certainly not the case) but at the same time going as far as to nitpick why the buildings used in Seinfeld are so obviously not NYC (arguing against something nobody was saying).

I don’t think you’re a troll, but you definitely seem to have an emotional stake in the matter and are clearly “triggered.”
I wasn't triggered, I was annoyed. The reason that I was annoyed with Sun Belt is that he quite obviously has no perspective to participate in the discussion of how Detroit and L.A. may (or may not) be similar, other than Google Maps. Too often people think access to limited information on the internet gives them a PhD about any subject in the world.
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  #223  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
LA’s urban core is DT to Santa Monica, north of the 10 and south of the mountains—our “Manhattan.” There’s a clear difference in built form, activity, amenities, and appeal that distinguish it from the rest of the metro area (and the traffic to, from, and within proves it). And in terms of geographic area, it’s relatively compact.

“Low density” is also relative. Is 10,000/square mile low density? Because that’s what the detached SFH nabes average at the very least.
Yup. Although I can see the borders moving south as Culver City/USC/West Adams etc keep improving.
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  #224  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
It's funny how easy it is to fool viewers, though. Most people are pretty ignorant re. urban streetscapes, or maybe they just don't care.

This is the exterior of the Seinfeld building. An intern scanning LA on Streetview for 10 minutes could probably find a more appropriate building (heck, there's one that would work around the corner):
https://www.google.com/maps/place/75...4d-118.2930867

Putting aside the fact there's a Taco Bell drive-thru across the street, the lawn fronting the building screams "old building anywhere but NYC". The Mediterranean foliage and definitely-not-NYC facade are nice added touches.
Yeah. Seinfeld's building doesn't look like the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It does look like it would fit in here: https://goo.gl/maps/eujh2efsLUtaf5mEA

Or here: https://goo.gl/maps/QcZtWsUPD4ZMtvvd7

Or here: https://goo.gl/maps/gQUQRXGJEQe1nY3MA
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  #225  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quixote View Post
LA’s urban core is DT to Santa Monica, north of the 10 and south of the mountains—our “Manhattan.” There’s a clear difference in built form, activity, amenities, and appeal that distinguish it from the rest of the metro area (and the traffic to, from, and within proves it). And in terms of geographic area, it’s relatively compact, so LA’s not that spread out if you view the area in question as a singular entity instead of a collection of nodes separated by a bunch of nothing. But I’ll concede that the lack of transit and contiguity supports the latter view, although this will change over time.

“Low density” is also relative. Is 10,000/square mile low density? Because that’s what the detached SFH nabes average at the very least.
Ya low-density as an absolute term was probably the wrong way to describe it. LA's core SFH neughbourhoods are much denser than most. My point was more that in most cities, once you got far enough away from Downtown that you were driving through miles of this:



You wouldn't expect to find a highly desirable urban neighbourhood beyond it.
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  #226  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 3:47 PM
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I agree with that.
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  #227  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 5:13 PM
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I have always thought LA and Detroit shared many similarities. When you're driving along one of the enormously wide avenues in South LA, it feels very similar to driving one of the big avenues in Detroit. It's flat as can be, streets are ridiculously wide and over sized, commercial buildings are limited to one or two stories and go on forever, and they're flanked with relatively dense detached housing.

Crenshaw- LA
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9807...7i13312!8i6656

Vermont- LA
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9602...7i16384!8i8192

Woodward- Detroit
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4058...7i16384!8i8192

Obviously the vegetation is different and LA has way more Spanish and Mediterranean Revival architecture. The mountains in the distance are obviously not present in Detroit, but both have large swaths of very flat land that has been developed similarly. I tend to think of LA being like a Detroit that just kept growing with more immigration.
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  #228  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 5:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edale View Post
I have always thought LA and Detroit shared many similarities. When you're driving along one of the enormously wide avenues in South LA, it feels very similar to driving one of the big avenues in Detroit. It's flat as can be, streets are ridiculously wide and over sized, commercial buildings are limited to one or two stories and go on forever, and they're flanked with relatively dense detached housing.

Crenshaw- LA
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9807...7i13312!8i6656

Vermont- LA
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9602...7i16384!8i8192

Woodward- Detroit
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4058...7i16384!8i8192

Obviously the vegetation is different and LA has way more Spanish and Mediterranean Revival architecture. The mountains in the distance are obviously not present in Detroit, but both have large swaths of very flat land that has been developed similarly. I tend to think of LA being like a Detroit that just kept growing with more immigration.
I wonder if all 3 of those streets were streetcar routes in the past
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  #229  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
I wonder if all 3 of those streets were streetcar routes in the past
At least with Los Angeles, I don't know about Crenshaw, but Vermont definitely was. Along the southerly stretches, the PE cars had their own right of way, which explains the width of the street as well as the wide median in that area, though I don't know if that still exists? I haven't been in that area in a long while.

When people today remark at how wide some of the streets of LA and the LA area are, I think they don't realize that many of them used to have streetcars that ran down the center; and some were/are even state highways.

Before postwar development, for example, Rosemead Boulevard in the San Gabriel Valley used to be just a wide rural state highway:


It's still wide now, but most of it has development around it now, save for the part near the Whittier Narrows, where it still looks like a rural-area highway. It's still California State Route 19.
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  #230  
Old Posted Aug 26, 2019, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
I wasn't triggered, I was annoyed. The reason that I was annoyed with Sun Belt is that he quite obviously has no perspective to participate in the discussion of how Detroit and L.A. may (or may not) be similar, other than Google Maps. Too often people think access to limited information on the internet gives them a PhD about any subject in the world.
Oh I don't have the perspective to participate? Ok, pal.

Pretty funny considering your very next post was one that included Google Maps links, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah. Seinfeld's building doesn't look like the Upper West Side of Manhattan. It does look like it would fit in here: https://goo.gl/maps/eujh2efsLUtaf5mEA

Or here: https://goo.gl/maps/QcZtWsUPD4ZMtvvd7

Or here: https://goo.gl/maps/gQUQRXGJEQe1nY3MA
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  #231  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
I have yet to meet one person that has said or thinks Los Angeles resembles Detroit.
Count me in. I will say that there are some strange similarities between LA and Detroit. Both are dominated by freeways and have jobs that are spread out. Both are denser than traditional sun-belt cities.

I haven't been to very many cities in the US, so it is possible that there is another city that resembles Detroit more so than does LA, but I did think that there was a kind of vague similarity between the two.
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  #232  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 5:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Toronto north of Bloor can be a bit like West LA.

...

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6872...7i16384!8i8192
Wow, I used to go to school in LA, and I would have almost mistaken that image for a part of Wilshire.
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  #233  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 1:28 PM
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Count me in. I will say that there are some strange similarities between LA and Detroit. Both are dominated by freeways and have jobs that are spread out. Both are denser than traditional sun-belt cities.
Your criteria would include places like New Jersey. It doesn't mean they are the most similar in nearly every respect though.

Also, much of core Los Angeles has a lack of freeways. Much of the West Side is basically served by the 10 and parts of the 405, with 2 subway lines, one that will be extended and the Expo Line.
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  #234  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 2:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Your criteria would include places like New Jersey. It doesn't mean they are the most similar in nearly every respect though.
Where in NJ are there huge arterials lined with miles of early 20th century dense, auto-oriented retail?
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  #235  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 4:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
Your criteria would include places like New Jersey. It doesn't mean they are the most similar in nearly every respect though.
Sure, although New Jersey is more industrial than both, I suppose.
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  #236  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2019, 7:36 PM
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Aside from being the southernmost cities of their respective coasts, how similar are Miami and San Diego in other ways? I've been to both and they have a coastal skyline, famous beach spots, and are not too far from a major Latin American country. Both skylines are also limited in height due to a close by airport.
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  #237  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 4:30 AM
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While they aren't alike in nearly every respect, Richmond and Louisville share lots of similarities. Heck they used to be in the same state.
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  #238  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 10:21 AM
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Seattle and Portland have very similar cultures, and some other similarities that derive from that. They are nowhere near identical, but one could really write many pages about similarities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite View Post
I've always found Chicago - Toronto a somewhat lazy comparison just based on being two large cities on a lake. In terms of urban layout, transportation, and architecture I find them pretty distinct. Apart from certain areas of the financial cores which could be reasonably interchanged (even then the rivers give Chicago a different feel), I don't think there are many places you could drop a person who was decently familiar with the two and they wouldn't be able to quickly discern which city it was.
The shape of their metro-style transit is quite similar, and they're both on Great Lakes and similarly sized. After that, though, they begin to diverge rapidly. The way they interact with their lakes is different, the way they implement high-rises is different. Their standard building stock is different (side-by-side "terrace" homes for Toronto, bungalows and 2-level duplexes aka two-flats or three-flats for much of Chicago). More brick in Chicago. Culture is also pretty different as Chicago is very American and Toronto is definitely a Commonwealth city. Toronto had many more East Asians, Chicago is very Latino.

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Originally Posted by pj3000 View Post
It's even worse (and much more of a stretch) when people on here act like Miami is just like Chicago...
I actually think Miami and Chicago are as similar as Toronto and Chicago, although neither are really all that similar. A short list of similarities can be made, but the more you dig into them, the more different they become.

Quote:
Originally Posted by destroycreate View Post
Idk, Chicago and Toronto to me are essentially twins. They seem incredibly similar.
No, they're really not. Especially if you've actually been to both. They have some similarities on paper, but very few in reality.

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Originally Posted by Chisouthside View Post
Mexico City and New York City

Mexico City delegaciones function much like NYC borroughs
Pretty expansive Subway system
cultural capitals for their respective countries
absurd density
Street food all over the place
Center for capital and huge concentration of rich people
Multiple skylines(though NYCs are much taller)
I see the LA-MX comparison much more than the NYC-MX comparison. When I visited Mexico City, absolutely nothing reminded me of New York. Both have a lot of museums and serve as cultural capitals for their countries but after that ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Said no one, ever.
At it's peak Chicago probably was in the top five. It's still arguably in the top 25 or so, and top ten for financial importance. If Chicago just disappeared a huge hunk of the United States would suddenly be much farther from the global economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAYNYC View Post
Look, I get it. Chicago residents would much prefer the world sees Chicago as comparable to NYC than the world sees Chicago comparable to Toronto, but facts are facts, and if we were to base the comparison purely on skyscraper numbers alone (which, to be clear, I am not, as I see far more aesthetic similarities beyond that), the only reasonable comparison is Chicago/Toronto.

Totals:
NYC - 1,356
Chicago - 520
Toronto - 374
Numbers of tall buildings have jack squat to do with city similarities. And even if they did, if you switch from skyscrapers to just high-rises
suddenly Toronto leaps far ahead of Chicago.

I live in Chicago and while there are ways New York and Chicago can be compared, at the end of the day, they're quite different.

Question: is it New York or Chicago where the most famous shopping Avenue in the City stretches past the building that was second-tallest in the city until recently, going past a modern or contemporary art museum that's about a block off the street, and keeps going in a straight line then forming a border of a huge rectangular park that serves as the city's front yard, right past the cities biggest, most internationally recognized museum before arriving in the City's most historic African-American district?

(It's both. Both 5th Avenue and Michigan Avenue fit that description, with New York having the Empire State Building, MoMA, Central Park, the Met, and Harlem, while Chicago has the (formerly known as) Hancock Building, Museum of Contemporary Art, Grant Park, the Art Institute, and Bronzeville. As a bonus, both Avenues start at or within a few blocks of a "Washington Square Park.")
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  #239  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jd3189 View Post
Aside from being the southernmost cities of their respective coasts, how similar are Miami and San Diego in other ways? I've been to both and they have a coastal skyline, famous beach spots, and are not too far from a major Latin American country. Both skylines are also limited in height due to a close by airport.
The immediate downtown of San Diego and Miami is similar, but that’s it

Miami grew as vacation and retirement community with a very master planned character. It has far fewer historic nodes with walkable businesses than places like San Diego or Los Angeles. Retail is all about strip malls and power centers, with gridded suburbs and not much else

Miami lacks real beach towns. The drive from Carlsbad through La Jolla and mission beach is down to downtown San Diego is nothing like the drive south from say lake worth to dt Miami Beach . Many more walkable pedestrian areas in the case of San Diego
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  #240  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2019, 12:24 PM
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With Chicago and New York I don’t see many similarities

The biggest commonality is the suburban layout based on rail lines to the center of town, and how his this helped build up suburban town centers that in some cases are now interesting destinations in their own right (oak park, Greenwich, etc)

Philadelphia, Boston, chicago and New York are the only cities in North America that really have this. Montreal notably doesn’t despite its similar age
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