Toronto's new 25km Eglinton subway line breaks ground. To be completed by 2020.

J. Will · #1 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 3:30 AM**

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/videos/167165

MolsonExport · #2 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 3:37 AM**

well, this is great news.

yaletown_fella · #3 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 3:51 AM**

2020, jeez gonna take a lifetime.

Are there laws in place against using cheap foreign labour? What's up with the slack timeline? Compared to the Canada Line this is a joke.

habfanman · #4 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 6:26 AM**

The partially underground LRT (not subway) may take even longer:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2227492/

Tunnel plan for Eglinton Crosstown LRT could stymie Ford

Long before Mayor Rob Ford killed Transit City, the Eglinton Crosstown LRT was an enormously complicated engineering project, but the plan to bury the 25-km line is creating new engineering and soil disposal headaches that could drive up both cost and complexity.

The estimated cost already jumped from $4.6-billion to $8.2-billion, after Queen’s Park agreed to take the line underground.

The design riddles associated with tunneling under the Don River and Black Creek could provide Mr. Ford’s critics with an opening to block the revised plan in council next year. And there could be a domino effect on Mr. Ford’s Sheppard subway plan. Under his deal with the province, if the Crosstown line comes in under budget, unspent funds will go toward the subway.

The Don Valley

Under the Transit City strategy, the LRT was to emerge from a tunnel east of Laird and continue eastward on a right-of-way in the middle of Eglinton. But because of Mr. Ford’s changes, Metrolinx officials have spent months grappling with the question of how to get the Crosstown line across the Don Valley.

A tunnel may prove to be too deep and too steep for light rail vehicles, so Bruce McCuaig, president and CEO of Metrolinx, said the agency is looking at building a grade-separated bridge for the LRT as it crosses the ravines. Public consultations on an environmental assessment examining a bridge and other tunnel configurations will begin in early 2012.

Yet some councillors are already questioning both alternatives.

[...]

LeeWilson · #5 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 6:46 AM**

^ I'm a little confused as to why a tunnel would be too deep for LRT. Just the steepness issue?

J. Will · #6 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 7:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfanman

The partially underground LRT (not subway) may take even longer

A subway is an underground train. You're wrong in suggesting the fact that it is LRT means it's not a subway. Subways need not be heavy rail.

ue · #7 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 7:24 AM**

Will it be opening in phases as portions are complete, or will the entire 25km just open in 2020?

habfanman · #8 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 7:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Will

A subway is an underground train. You're wrong in suggesting the fact that it is LRT means it's not a subway. Subways need not be heavy rail.

I see. When a subway goes above ground it becomes an LRT and when an LRT goes underground it becomes a subway. And here I thought there were capacity/cost differences.

In that case, I propose they stop calling it the Eglinton LRT and stop saying that it's upgradeable to subway.. it already is a subway!

Crazy transportation experts

ue · #9 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 7:47 AM**

^ Generally, subway is heavy rail. Until recently, I thought it was exclusively heavy rail, but as J Will pointed out, it need not be. LRT however is confined to being well, light rail transit. If it is underground, it can still be called LRT, but also subway. Oh, and there are cost differences, as it is much more expensive to build underground then on ground.

habfanman · #10 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 8:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue

^ Generally, subway is heavy rail. Until recently, I thought it was exclusively heavy rail, but as J Will pointed out, it need not be. LRT however is confined to being well, light rail transit. If it is underground, it can still be called LRT, but also subway. Oh, and there are cost differences, as it is much more expensive to build underground then on ground.

So I'm guessing that an underground LRT is a cheap version of an actual subway?

Now I get it!

novawolverine · #11 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 2:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfanman

So I'm guessing that an underground LRT is a cheap version of an actual subway?

Now I get it!

Pretty much, although it can be just as good and a better fit, depending on the application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeWilson

^ I'm a little confused as to why a tunnel would be too deep for LRT. Just the steepness issue?

It is a steepness issue. Not to mention, it's a complete waste of money to go that route through the areas that they mention as being obstacles like the Don Valley.

J. Will · #12 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfanman

I see. When a subway goes above ground it becomes an LRT and when an LRT goes underground it becomes a subway. And here I thought there were capacity/cost differences.

In that case, I propose they stop calling it the Eglinton LRT and stop saying that it's upgradeable to subway.. it already is a subway!

Crazy transportation experts

Who are these "transportation experts" who said it (the Eglinton line) is not a subway. Please cite them with a link so I can laugh at them.

subway (plural subways)
(North America) An underground railway, especially for mass transit of people in urban areas.

An LRT subway is still a subway.

ardecila · #13 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 9:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeWilson

^ I'm a little confused as to why a tunnel would be too deep for LRT. Just the steepness issue?

Stations are planned for Wynford and Bermondsey. If the tunnel needs to pass beneath the Don Valley, then Wynford/Bermondsey will be on the approach grades. That means the construction of these stations will be astronomically expensive, since they will be so deep below ground level. I'm not sure how deep, but sometimes these stations have to be blasted out of the rock and then the only access is via elevator.

The Bloor-Danforth Line had the same problem with nearby stations (Sherbourne, Castle Frank, Broadview) which is why it crosses the Rosedale and Don Valleys on bridges.

MonkeyRonin · #14 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 9:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by habfanman

So I'm guessing that an underground LRT is a cheap version of an actual subway?

Yep, because of its smaller width, tunneling is cheaper - kind of like the Montreal Metro! (the trains for this thing are about the same size as the Metro trains, for the record)

caltrane74 · #15 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 9:44 PM**

Yeah, habsfanman relax, these trains look almost exactly like the new Montreal Subway. The only difference is that instead of 6 cars, they will have 4 cars.

They are actually wider than Montreal's subways. - some LRT, eh:?

Also the tunnel will be larger than a normal subway to support the electric cables that power the trains overhead.

New Montreal Subway

New Toronto Streetcars - The New LRT-Subway will be a modified verison of this

from klb86 at UT ( The NEW LRT SUBWAY WILL HAVE 4 Cars - 2 More than shown here and be slightly larger)

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...etcars/page117

zilfondel · #16 Posted **Nov 10, 2011, 10:41 PM**

^^^ Thats just a tram! Why on earth would you run those for a subway?

LeeWilson · #17 Posted **Nov 11, 2011, 12:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

Stations are planned for Wynford and Bermondsey. If the tunnel needs to pass beneath the Don Valley, then Wynford/Bermondsey will be on the approach grades. That means the construction of these stations will be astronomically expensive, since they will be so deep below ground level. I'm not sure how deep, but sometimes these stations have to be blasted out of the rock and then the only access is via elevator.

The Bloor-Danforth Line had the same problem with nearby stations (Sherbourne, Castle Frank, Broadview) which is why it crosses the Rosedale and Don Valleys on bridges.

Thanks, that makes sense then, if they have stations so close to the edge of the valley. But isn't Wynford a little out of the way though? You'd think they would put it closer to the Don Mills & Eglinton intersection.

caltrane74 · #18 Posted **Nov 11, 2011, 1:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilfondel

^^^ Thats just a tram! Why on earth would you run those for a subway?

These pictures are our new streetcars. Not the trains for the Eglinton line. However they will have a similar appearance as these trainsets, except they will have doors on both sides. They will be 4 car trainsets, and as I mentioned above these LRT trainsets are wider than the current Montreal subway.

As for why this LRT runs underground, ask our Mayor.

ardecila · #19 Posted **Nov 11, 2011, 8:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeWilson

Thanks, that makes sense then, if they have stations so close to the edge of the valley. But isn't Wynford a little out of the way though? You'd think they would put it closer to the Don Mills & Eglinton intersection.

Nobody will want to cross the Don Valley Parkway on foot, and there's a lot of residential density east of the parkway.

There will be a Don Mills station too, possibly with one exit to Don Mills and another to Ferrard.

And no, that's not too close; it's about 0.75 miles between Don Mills and Wynford.

habfanman · #20 Posted **Nov 11, 2011, 10:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Yeah, habsfanman relax, these trains look almost exactly like the new Montreal Subway. The only difference is that instead of 6 cars, they will have 4 cars.

They are actually wider than Montreal's subways. - some LRT, eh:?

Also the tunnel will be larger than a normal subway to support the electric cables that power the trains overhead.

New Montreal Subway

New Toronto Streetcars - The New LRT-Subway will be a modified verison of this

from klb86 at UT ( The NEW LRT SUBWAY WILL HAVE 4 Cars - 2 More than shown here and be slightly larger)

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthr...etcars/page117

But the metro is 9 cars long.