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  #41  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 5:08 PM
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The least costly way of dealing with criminals is to ignore them too.
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  #42  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 7:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
I was getting some gas at the Shell at the corner of Ponce and Boulevard today...it's impossible to stand there while your gas pumps and not be approached by someone milling around that corner. A guy approached me today and handed me some cds. I asked him if he was giving to me, and he (in few words) told me that he was extremely desperate and having a really hard time. I'm not sure what he was desperate for, but somehow he struck me as sincere. I only gave him the coins I had in my pocket, not more than a dollar or so...and he did say thank you. It felt like one of those corny old "Latter Day Saints" commercials. It was kinda nice to be accosted by someone with manners...
Sprtsluvr8, I know your heart was in the right place, but there's a reasonably good chance that this very "sincere" gentleman busted out somebody's car window in search of more valuable loot and ended up with these CDs. Call me jaded from living in BumCrack for the last two years, but I just think it's a terrible idea to enable the homeless to remain dependent on the charity of others by giving them money.
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  #43  
Old Posted May 25, 2007, 7:49 PM
sprtsluvr8 sprtsluvr8 is offline
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I wonder if he's the same guy who hangs out at the drive-thru window at the Krispy Kreme trying to "sell" you CDs? I'm surprised they let him hang out there, since he can reach your drivers side window as they hand you your doughnuts.
As long as he can't reach my doughnuts...cuz then it would get serious...
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  #44  
Old Posted Dec 27, 2007, 7:01 PM
shanthemanatl shanthemanatl is offline
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Are there any updates on this? Weren't we expecting some news by the end of the year?
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  #45  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2007, 6:12 AM
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Are there any updates on this? Weren't we expecting some news by the end of the year?
Have you noticed South Face's building on the north side of the property lately? It looks to be almost finished -- they've certainly taken their time! I wonder what agreement they have with the other interests in the area?

http://www.southface.org/

I go back and forth on the old Civic Center convention area and concert hall. I actually like the buildings themselves but hate their relation to the neighborhood. The parking lots and spacing from Piedmont remind me of an early 70s high school complex in a huge suburban area.
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  #46  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2007, 11:06 PM
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Sure bums are human. So what? They're worthless humans. They leech off of society and give nothing back but crime, prostitution, and filth.

If you're so pathetic that you give up on life to the point that you're homeless, and have to subsist on money given to you by guilt tripped people, fine. But that gives you no right to some of the most highly desired property RIGHT ON PEACHTREE STREET.

The perfect solution is to build a homeless farm for them. You wanna be homeless? Fine, but you don't get a choice about where you beg for money. Building a facility outside the perimeter is the best idea. I'm tired of working my ass off each day, I pay taxes, I contribute to society -- and yet I can not enjoy my neighborhood because of these damned homeless people. Why do they have more rights than I do? ugghhh
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  #47  
Old Posted Dec 28, 2007, 11:09 PM
Behind_Phips Behind_Phips is offline
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Sure bums are human. So what? They're worthless humans. They leech off of society and give nothing back but crime, prostitution, and filth.

If you're so pathetic that you give up on life to the point that you're homeless, and have to subsist on money given to you by guilt tripped people, fine. But that gives you no right to some of the most highly desired property RIGHT ON PEACHTREE STREET.

The perfect solution is to build a homeless farm for them. You wanna be homeless? Fine, but you don't get a choice about where you beg for money. Building a facility outside the perimeter is the best idea. I'm tired of working my ass off each day, I pay taxes, I contribute to society -- and yet I can not enjoy my neighborhood because of these damned homeless people. Why do they have more rights than I do? ugghhh
...I don't even need to say anything to win this one!

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  #48  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 3:20 AM
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...I don't even need to say anything to win this one!

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So how many points do you get docked for your inability to actually form a response, as well as your childish name calling? hmm like -20?
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  #49  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 3:36 AM
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brian, i don't think anyone could convince you to view one's situation through anyone's but your own viewpoint. there are many things that can break down a human being to the point at which they basically no longer exist...
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  #50  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 4:03 AM
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So how many points do you get docked for your inability to actually form a response, as well as your childish name calling? hmm like -20?
Where to start Brian:
1. Did you grow up physically abused?
2. Have you ever been sexually abused?
3. Did your mother smoke crack while you were unborn?
4. Did your family not have enough money to put food on the table?
5. Do you have any mental problems and are uninsured?
6. Have you ever served in the military and seen things that destroy ever bit of your human fiber and come home from war to a government that could give two craps about you?
7. Did you grow up with one or no parents?

These are the worthless human beings you talk about. You couldn't walk one damn day in their shoes. These people are not trash. You can't just throw them out like yesterdays trash. People like you disgust me. You are pathetic to write that crap.
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  #51  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 4:11 AM
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These are human beings, and I don't blame them for their circumstances, but the organization giving them food and support should be relocated to a less commercially viable area. Human nature is what it is. We all want to be in contact with people like ourselves, the success stories, not those who have lost life's lottery. This is a prime piece of downtown, but will never achieve full potential until that shelter is relocated. Just the facts.
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  #52  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Behind_Phips View Post
Where to start Brian:
1. Did you grow up physically abused?
2. Have you ever been sexually abused?
3. Did your mother smoke crack while you were unborn?
4. Did your family not have enough money to put food on the table?
5. Do you have any mental problems and are uninsured?
6. Have you ever served in the military and seen things that destroy ever bit of your human fiber and come home from war to a government that could give two craps about you?
7. Did you grow up with one or no parents?

These are the worthless human beings you talk about. You couldn't walk one damn day in their shoes. These people are not trash. You can't just throw them out like yesterdays trash. People like you disgust me. You are pathetic to write that crap.
I actually think this is a discussion worth having, and that both of you (Behind_Phipps and briantech) should be a little bit more open to the other's point of view. Both of them are valid, and for either of you just to discount the other is silly if you ask me.

Yes, many homeless people have had terrible pasts - ones that I am blessed to not have experienced. I think many of us take for granted growing up in good homes, receiving an education, and having access to segments of society that many others do not. Many of them struggle just to sustain themselves. Many of them are even working hard every day just to stay where they are - after all, a minimum wage job can't exactly fund a place to live in the city. And you're right: they are people, after all.

Yet for both the poor that have lost hope and don't care, and those that are willing to work for a second chance, there must be a better solution than the shelters the city has established for them. MarketsWork, you may have a suggestion (if you're reading this), because clearly the government has failed in many respects. Should we simply let the market take care of this? Is this something that can be reconciled with market forces, or is it the obligation of the city to take these people in and offer them food, shelter, and jobs?

I for one despise the fact that many of them roam our city's most notable address. There must be a better place - and better means - to handle the poor and homeless than what we have conceived to date. If addressing this problem means shipping them off somewhere, then so be it. They certainly have the right to live where they want, but that doesn't mean that the city or taxpayers owe them the right to live on Peachtree Street. The way I see it is that the people of this city who are working every day, who are giving up years of their lives struggling through commutes and 40+ hour weeks, have to leverage where they live based on their incomes in relation to other expenses. Many people who work all the time still cannot afford to live in a condo in Midtown. Why is the city giving a free ride to homeless in one of the nicest parts of town? If these people are unwilling to or cannot work, let them live somewhere, but have it be somewhere that the market dictates. The "highest and best use," as they say, of that land is certainly not a homeless shelter. The people living there deserve it no more than anyone else, and the fact remains that these shelters are blights on the neighborhoods.

Where can they be moved? I don't have a good answer to that. I just know that it's unfair to ignore these people, but also unfair for them to continue to bring down what could be an excellent area of town. Hopefully we have some visionary leaders in the near future that can address the problem with solutions that have to this point not been realized.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 5:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
We all want to be in contact with people like ourselves, the success stories, not those who have lost life's lottery.
Fiorenza, I have run across that phrase about "life's lottery" several times lately. I'm getting the sinking feeling I may turn out to be one of the big losers but do you happen to remember where it came from? Wasn't it from some politician?
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 5:43 AM
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Where can they be moved?
How about Cobb County? I'm not wedded to that but I'm sure Cobb has a lot more money to deal with this situation than the city of Atlanta.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 6:08 AM
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They do need to be close to Marta. I'm thinking Ft. Mac.

Andrea, I have no idea where the phrase came from, but I'm how about the hospital maternity ward scene in "Once Upon a Time in America", if you're familiar with that one, and the comment made by the brothel "madame" concerning the dilemma they were confronting there. It's a great movie if you haven't seen it.
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Last edited by Fiorenza; Dec 29, 2007 at 6:26 AM.
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 2:39 PM
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They do need to be close to Marta. I'm thinking Ft. Mac.
Well, they need public transportation but not necessarily MARTA. Now that Cobb and Gwinnett have transit that opens up a whole host of new options. I'm thinking Cobb would be ideal, for several reasons:

-- For one thing, more money. Cobb's not burdened with aging infrastructure costs and legacy medical and retirement obligations yet, so they should be pretty flush for the time being.

-- Secondly, more space. Cobb's not as paved over as downtown, so there's plenty of room to set these folks up with a little greenspace and walking around room, instead of gritty urban sidewalks with very few amenities.

-- Thirdly, Cobb has a number of very walkable communities. Marietta, Smyrna, and even downtown Kennesaw are very navigable by foot, especially when it comes to getting to places like grocery stores, schools, medical care, government offices and recreation facilities.

-- Fourth, more opportunities for integration into the community and upward mobility.

== Fifth, fairness to homeless folks and to the community in general. There's no reason to continually stick these people inside the city limits of Atlanta, which represents less than 10% of the metro area, and exclude them from the other 91% of Atlanta.


Fiorenza, yes, I do like that movie, especially the long version.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 3:14 PM
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The homeless people are signed up to vote every election. The Atlanta political machine would never agree to relocate them out of the city.
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 3:33 PM
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Not a bad idea, actually. NYC had a homeless "farm" upstate in Orange County for years where they would bus many of the city's homeless. I'm sure the folks in Forsyth, Henry, or Carroll counties would love it!
Interesting. I used to live in Orange County, NY and the "farm" as you call it was a homeless shelter. There is a bike-ped rail trail, the Orange County Heritage Trail, (quite nice , actually) that goes through the edge of the proprty. It is policed by NYC cops in golf carts, no joke. It has been an on-going debate about shutting it down for years. A lot of the homeless and the ones that just gotout of jail were sent to Newburgh, NY on the Hudson, in Orange County simply because ther were "more apartments" i.e 70% of Newburgh is rental and absentee landlords- resulting in a severely depressed city. It has done some work in alliveating the problems, but they have a way to go. There is a new master plan, and a lot of civic involvement and public participation went into this plan.

So as far as "Camp Laguardia" as it is called worked to an extent, by containing the homeless population. There was a lot of fear by the people that used the trail because of the proximity. I think it was overdone. I lived also in Atlanta, and it would be a no go there, esp. in the northern suburbs. Too many rich NIMBYS and rich republicans. Odd too, because Orange County is heavly republican.
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
The homeless people are signed up to vote every election. The Atlanta political machine would never agree to relocate them out of the city.
I can't imagine that would be an obstacle. The homeless folks are usually bitterly at odds with City Hall, and there aren't enough of them (app. 6,000, including children) to make much of a difference even if they did all vote. If they were considered an important voting block, no doubt the suburban political machines would be eagerly courting them for the same reasons.
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 29, 2007, 4:44 PM
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As I've posted previously, the only real humane solution is assimilation. The city could sponsor a group home in every neighborhood, and those 6,000 could be housed and cared for by themselves, and would have many people and churches in proximity who would be willing to assist them with jobs and other positive reinforcement. The churches could be subsidized to feed them, or food trucks could deliver from a central location. Best of all is, the churches and private donations would cover most if not all the cost of this sort of operation. The city would have to pass an ordinance mandating that each neighborhood is required to accept a group home.
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