Atlanta:WATER

[Fiorenza]

I'll concede the Tennessee River, but the TVA lakes lying totally within Georgia look good, assuming the engineering is feasible. The legal battle could be winnable because virtually no water is being withdrawn by Georgia from TVA properties.

[LoveAtlanta]

I count on God.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

I'll concede the Tennessee River, but the TVA lakes lying totally within Georgia look good, assuming the engineering is feasible. The legal battle could be winnable because virtually no water is being withdrawn by Georgia from TVA properties.

That water under TVA's jurisdiction may be in Georgia, but the state of Georgia has no right to it. Only the communities that lie within TVA's watershed are entitled to that water, similar to the system that governs the Great Lakes. TVA is a quasi-state agency which even has the power to tax. It's nothing like the system the Chattahooche is currently governed by.

Heck, 3/4 of Alabama can't draw from the Tennessee River for the same reasons, even though TVA's three largest lakes (and 3 of the 5 largest man-made east of the Mississippi River, all three of which are twice the size of Lanier) basically form the River in the northern part of the state.

[coyotetrickster]

Originally Posted by Andrea

Fiorenza, you are spot on as usual. All of America's great cities thrived because they found a way to access water. New York brought it down through the great tunnels from the Catskills. Los Angeles with Mulholland's great aqueducts. Chicago with its amazing Lake Michigan cribs.

We need an equally bold plan, or we’ll wither just as surely as the Bermuda on our .6 acre lawns.

Mulholland stole our water, thank you. If you want to call theft a way of accessing water, fine. but LA exists thanks to the wholesale thievery of Northern California's water resources. And, the leases are coming due and many will not be resigned....

[neilson]

Originally Posted by coyotetrickster

Mulholland stole our water, thank you. If you want to call theft a way of accessing water, fine. but LA exists thanks to the wholesale thievery of Northern California's water resources. And, the leases are coming due and many will not be resigned....

So, you're saying prohibitively expensive DeSal plants will have to compensate for the water resources that will no longer be utilized due to contracts expiring?

[Fiorenza]

Obviously, LA and Atlanta will get water from some distance from lakes in their same political jurisdictions (CA, GA) considered by jealous NIMBYs as sacrosanct. The courts will not look favorably to depriving large numbers of people the ability to maintain public health standards.

As for TVA, they'd better be careful who they take on. If it were up to me, TVA would have been abolished after the depression. Right now they really don't have many friends in Congress. They don't need to have the Georgia congressional delegation start voting against their appropriation.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Obviously, LA and Atlanta will get water from some distance from lakes in their same political jurisdictions (CA, GA) considered by jealous NIMBYs as sacrosanct. The courts will not look favorably to depriving large numbers of people the ability to maintain public health standards.

As for TVA, they'd better be careful who they take on. If it were up to me, TVA would have been abolished after the depression. Right now they really don't have many friends in Congress. They don't need to have the Georgia congressional delegation start voting against their appropriation.

Alabama and Tennessee Congressional Delegations + Kentucky Congressional Delegation > Georgia Congressional Delegation.

[Fiorenza]

We'll see. Why should the TVA territory get continued special treatment from the feds? That sort of pork is exactly why this country is going broke. They'll probably have to sell off TVA to the Chinese to pay the debts. Anyway, legal issues around water rights will most likely end up in the courts, not congress, and I'm fine with that. Let's go for it and see who wins.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

We'll see. Why should the TVA territory get continued special treatment from the feds? That sort of pork is exactly why this country is going broke. They'll probably have to sell off TVA to the Chinese to pay the debts. Anyway, legal issues around water rights will most likely end up in the courts, not congress, and I'm fine with that. Let's go for it and see who wins.

I'm justs saying, the TVA regions are better off for not having the Southern Companies, the Duke Energies, the Progress Energies, and the like try and operate our power.

Continue the status quo within the TVA regions and let the Local Municipalities continue to buy power from TVA and supply it to their local populations. Don't go corporate on us, I don't want Southern Company's problems and successes to be tied to us.

[Fiorenza]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- Federal officials met privately Friday with the governors of drought-stricken Alabama and Georgia and announced plans for an interagency team to tackle a long-standing water rights dispute involving those two states and Florida.

James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said the high-level federal panel will have the "straightforward goal of acting with urgency to prevent an emergency."

Connaughton said the specifics of the plan could be in place soon after a meeting Thursday in Washington with Alabama Gov. Bob Riley, Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue and those states' congressional delegations.

[Fiorenza]

ATLANTA — U.S. Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne met privately Friday with the governors of Georgia and Alabama on their struggle over water shortages in a prolonged drought, but withheld details on their talks until a tri-state meeting on the issue next week.

Kempthorne said he believes Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue and Alabama Gov. Bob Riley can work through the nearly two- decade-old dispute over how much water Georgia’s reservoirs must share with Alabama and Florida.

“I think this is as frank a discussion as we’ve ever had,” Riley said following the afternoon meeting in Montgomery

The interior secretary declined to discuss details before a meeting Thursday in Washington, D.C., with the Georgia and Alabama governors, along with Florida Gov. Charlie Crist and congressional delegations from the three states.

“Out of respect for the way these negotiations are going, we’re not going to be very specific,” Perdue said after a meeting earlier Friday in Atlanta. “Things are in the works.”

Seeking an agreement

Kempthorne said his Friday meeting with Perdue had “the right atmosphere and the right tone.” He stressed that the states need to reach an agreement and keep the federal courts out of it.

James Connaughton, chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality, said in Montgomery that a high level federal inter-agency team is being formed with a “straightforward goal of acting with urgency to prevent an emergency.”

He also stressed that any solution to the crisis would have to include interim steps to address the immediate water shortage problems as well as long-term solutions to keep them from resurfacing.

Connaughton said they hope to have specifics of a plan after the meeting in Washington. That meeting, he said, would be followed by several weeks of data development. He said it wasn’t possible at this point to give a timeline for any concrete actions.

Kempthorne, Connaughton and Perdue were joined by U.S. Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson — both Georgia Republicans — and representatives from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Alabama U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions joined the Montgomery meeting.

Riley had called Thursday for a truce between Alabama, Georgia and Florida, all of which are locked in a decades-long fight over federal reservoirs. The drought — which government forecasters reported could soon get worse — has intensified the jockeying.

Caught in the middle is the Corps of Engineers, which says it is complying with federal guidelines by sending millions of gallons of water from Georgia downstream to Florida and Alabama to supply power plants and protect federally threatened mussel species.

Almost a third of the Southeast is covered by an exceptional drought, the worst category, according to the National Drought Mitigation Center. The burgeoning Atlanta area, with a population of 5 million, is in the middle of the affected region.

Georgia lawmakers announced plans Thursday for a network of state reservoirs, while the governors of Alabama and Florida warned that Georgia’s consumption threatens their downstream states.

The Georgia plan would involve building at least four new reservoirs and expanding existing ones. Lawmakers did not say how much state funding would go toward bolstering the state’s water supply.

Perdue has ordered state agencies and public utilities to reduce usage, and authorities have banned outdoor watering in most of the state.

Georgia also sued the Corps last week, demanding it send less water downstream. That brought objections from the governors of Alabama and Florida.

“Georgians are willing to do their share in understanding and sharing as good neighbors, but we respectfully ask the same of our neighbors,” Perdue said.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by neilson

Alabama and Tennessee Congressional Delegations + Kentucky Congressional Delegation > Georgia Congressional Delegation.

i was unaware that three states controlled the destiny of the TVA, and i don't think they do. the combined delegation of 47 states > alabama, tennessee and kentucky.

it's pretty clear that issues related to natural resource allocation (such as water) are becoming national in scope and will be resolved as part of a national agenda.

[Go7SD]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

But I agree we have to solve our water problems from within our own resources, and not depend on other states. The first thing we need to improve on is conservation.

We're not the only ones. Here's an interesting article being featured by Drudge, that discusses the water problems being encountered in many areas of the country.

Georgia must develop something sometime in the future. There is no way the other states are just going to sacrifice their own resources for Georgia's water problem. I know Atlanta is at a higher elevation but it would be much more costly if the drought problem effects the metro area economically long term that could run in the millions. Yes, it would be expensive to pump the water up to Atlanta but it is a better long term solution for years to come. The drought may get worse but instead of Georgia wining and pissing off it's neighbors it needs to do something for itself. There are other projects around the world that are far more expensive than what I proposed. Florida, Alabama, Tenn etc. are going to look out for themselves first not Georgia. NC is already looking at a possible desal plant project off it's coast due to water problems.

[Rail Claimore]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

We'll see. Why should the TVA territory get continued special treatment from the feds? That sort of pork is exactly why this country is going broke. They'll probably have to sell off TVA to the Chinese to pay the debts. Anyway, legal issues around water rights will most likely end up in the courts, not congress, and I'm fine with that. Let's go for it and see who wins.

The "public" reason for TVA's creation was to spur economic development in what was then the poorest part of the country. Of course, anyone high up in DC knows the real reason TVA was created and continues to exist. Look no further than what goes on close to Huntsville and Knoxville regarding the DoD and all those other big government departments. If it weren't for them, TVA would have been privatized and sold off decades ago.

[Fiorenza]

Government agencies being tax-subsidized to support other government agencies? I love it. "What goes on close to Huntsville and Knoxville regarding the DoD and all those big government departments" is not very relevant anymore.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by Fiorenza

Government agencies being tax-subsidized to support other government agencies? I love it. "What goes on close to Huntsville and Knoxville regarding the DoD and all those big government departments" is not very relevant anymore.

If there's 3 things that are more relevant to us as a nation then anything else today, it's Missile Defense and NASA development(Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville) and the sort of development that continues to come out of Oak Ridge, outside of Knoxville.

Oh, and here's something else. The vast majority of employees at all 3 areas are actually subcontractors that work for the countless companies that are brought in by the Gov't to do the job for cheaper and more efficiently.

You can contract employees and companies to do the work of the gov't, but you can't contract say, Southern Company, to come in and do the work of TVA. We see Alabama Power and their higher rates and the like, that's not what we want if contracting out the rights to our power operations to a private entity. That would also take the local utility companies that buy from TVA in order to supply us(the end user) out of the picture, and those local utilities are vital since they give a "local" face to the needs of the people.

[Fiorenza]

That's a twisted justification for a government subsidy that no body else receives.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by neilson

If there's 3 things that are more relevant to us as a nation then anything else today, it's Missile Defense and NASA development(Redstone Arsenal near Huntsville) and the sort of development that continues to come out of Oak Ridge, outside of Knoxville.

Oh, and here's something else. The vast majority of employees at all 3 areas are actually subcontractors that work for the countless companies that are brought in by the Gov't to do the job for cheaper and more efficiently.

You can contract employees and companies to do the work of the gov't, but you can't contract say, Southern Company, to come in and do the work of TVA. We see Alabama Power and their higher rates and the like, that's not what we want if contracting out the rights to our power operations to a private entity. That would also take the local utility companies that buy from TVA in order to supply us(the end user) out of the picture, and those local utilities are vital since they give a "local" face to the needs of the people.

weak.

[neilson]

Originally Posted by atl2phx

weak.

TVA is not the only one that gets special rights. I point you to Arizona and SRP. You guys with Southern Company and the like are just like the ppl in AZ that have APS and think SRP has an "unfair" advantage.

[atl2phx]

Originally Posted by neilson

TVA is not the only one that gets special rights. I point you to Arizona and SRP. You guys with Southern Company and the like are just like the ppl in AZ that have APS and think SRP has an "unfair" advantage.

to your point, phoenix and much of arizona get a decent amount of water (if i recall, 30-35%) from sources that originate outside of the state. compare that to atlanta, which gets virtually all of its water from within georgia state lines.