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  #121  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2008, 7:02 PM
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So would the next Canadian flights be more western cities like Calgary and Edmonton, or would SMF think of going big and getting Toronto?
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  #122  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 4:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ltsmotorsport View Post
So would the next Canadian flights be more western cities like Calgary and Edmonton, or would SMF think of going big and getting Toronto?
I would be worried about keeping the current Vancouver service. Its down to one round trip per day and the passenger load isn't that great.
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  #123  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 3:55 PM
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Airport officials cut back hotel plan
By Tony Bizjak - tbizjak@sacbee.com
Last Updated 6:02 am PST Tuesday, February 5, 2008
Story appeared in MAIN NEWS section, Page A1




With the calendar speeding toward groundbreaking, Sacramento International Airport officials have reluctantly sliced off part of a major upcoming expansion – a last-minute effort to keep the project from faltering.

The west flank of a planned high-rise airport hotel now will be three stories shorter. Otherwise, it would have blocked air traffic tower controllers' view of a portion of the west runway.

A Federal Aviation Administration spokesman said Monday his agency is waiting to see the airport's amended plan, but is pleased local officials are redesigning the hotel to meet safety concerns.

"We explained the importance of not blocking any airfield views," FAA spokesman Ian Gregor said.

Sacramento airport officials, however, say they are upset with the way the issue played out.

The episode also added to time pressures on airport officials: Should the project fall too far behind schedule, it could be stalled indefinitely by the looming possibility of a flood-related construction moratorium in Natomas.

Local officials spent nearly four years trying to persuade the FAA to move its tower to make room for the airport's planned new terminal and hotel tower, a review of airport e-mails, memos and letters indicates.

At one point, local officials unsuccessfully offered to pay the $25 million price tag to build a tower in a new location on airport grounds if the FAA would reimburse them.

"It only confirms the inflexibility of the federal government," Sacramento airports director Hardy Acree said.

The tower problem is among several loose ends airport officials are racing to tie up in hopes of making their planned midsummer construction start date.

It has become a nail-biter. FAA officials, in an e-mail to the Bee on Monday, countered that they receive numerous tower replacement requests nationally, but have limited funds for the work.

"If we move one facility up on the replacement list, or add a facility to that list, then we have to move another facility down the list or remove it," spokesman Gregor said.

The airport's expansion will be the largest in its 41-year history. Officials say they hope to turn Sacramento's increasingly crowded airfield into a facility that can compete better with San Francisco and Oakland for Northern California business.

The first step is a new four-story, glass-and-steel central terminal to replace outdated Terminal B.

For the moment, another hotel issue stands in the way. County officials are negotiating to buy the existing Host Marriott hotel at the airport to knock it down to make room.

Airport officials said they are within days of an agreement. Hotel company officials said only that negotiations were continuing. County officials said they are prepared to use eminent domain if negotiations fail.

The new terminal is scheduled to open in 2011. Airport executives then intend to knock down Terminal B and build a multistory garage.

Those officials say they are especially excited about plans for the full-service hotel with panoramic views to be built on top of the new terminal. It would allow travelers to check into hotel rooms just an escalator ride up from airline ticket counters.

But it's been a case of an irresistible force hitting an immovable object.

The federal air traffic control tower, built in 1967, sits in the center of the airport, not far from the planned new terminal.

FAA spokesman Gregor said in an e-mail Monday that Sacramento is not on the FAA's current tower replacement list.

Sacramento airport officials, however, said they have been told informally by the FAA it expects to start the process in 2012 that would lead to building a tower.

Failing to persuade the FAA it should move that date up, Sacramento officials last year appealed to a higher authority: They got several local congressional representatives to write to the secretary of transportation.

In a response letter last March, Transportation Secretary Mary Peters backed the FAA's assertion that Sacramento should pay for any tower move because the airport expansion was causing the potential line-of-sight problem.

With their construction deadline bearing down, airport officials recently knocked the hotel's west side down from 10 to seven stories, cutting hotel rooms from about 200 to 185.

Airport director Acree declined Monday to estimate how much extra expense his agency has incurred trying to get the control tower moved.

"If I tried to (add up the costs), my anxieties would just go up," Acree said.

Acree said he remains "cautiously optimistic" the airport will meet its midsummer construction date.

Air traffic controllers in Sacramento say they have mixed feelings about what's coming. They are pleased that, as they guide planes to landing, they won't suddenly get an eyeful of hotel instead. But several said they don't look forward to pile drivers banging a few feet away, and wouldn't mind someday having a new, modern tower in a more secure site on airport grounds.

As for airport architects, they say shortening the west side of the hotel is not all bad.

"It may create a more interesting-looking building than a square block at the end of the terminal," said Brent Kelley of Corgan Associates.
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  #124  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 3:58 PM
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I have a funny feeling some nutcase (like Willam Kopper) will file a last minute lawsuit to stop the county from going forward this summer...

Mark my word..
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  #125  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 5:01 PM
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Originally Posted by cozmoose View Post
I would be worried about keeping the current Vancouver service. Its down to one round trip per day and the passenger load isn't that great.
This service was always planned to go to 1x/day in the winter. It will return to 2x/day in late spring. Check the Air Canada site for flights in June and you will see two flights again.

My understanding is that the single flight is running loads in the 60s. That, indeed, is not that great, but it's not a disaster. Air Canada has to better promote easy connections to Asia via Vancouver for this service to get better loads. I'm told that most of the pax for this flight are generated by international business people coming to Sacramento, not vice-versa. If that's true, that means that these relatively low loads are more than made up for by high-yields. That usually bodes well for the service to continue.

Quote:
So would the next Canadian flights be more western cities like Calgary and Edmonton, or would SMF think of going big and getting Toronto?
My best guess for additional A/C service is a morning flight to Toronto, but that's at least 18 mos. out.

Regarding the scaled-down hotel issue: I know the airport people are livid with the FAA over this. They've been trying to work it out for years and have offered all kinds of, in their view (and I agree), reasonable solutions, but The Feds won't budge. This has truly caused some bad blood that is not likely to heal any time soon.

The only disconcerting thing about the airport's growth in 2007 is that it seems to be strictly from new flight with existing service totals to many cities actually down last year. Some of that may be due to additional service direct to new cities instead of having to connect via hubs.

No one that I know at SMF has really considered passing Oakland yet. I've never heard it really mentioned. I know they're ecstatic about passing SJC. I would expect these two airports to run neck-and-neck for the next few years anyway.

And, as UE fears, I'm sure some dork will sue at the last minute to block the project. It's the Sacramento way.
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  #126  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 5:10 PM
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Anybody have an airport map showing the location of the existing tower? I honestly can't remember (it's been awhile since I flew into SMF)...I just recall it's like an orange/red color and looks horribly outdated.
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  #127  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 7:21 PM
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I haven't been following whats been going on with SMF but why doesn't the FAA want to build a new tower if Sacramento is willing to pay for it now with with FAA reimbursing them later if they plan on starting the process to build a new one anyway in 2012?
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  #128  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 7:30 PM
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Updated Expressjet Loads

Due to a glitch in calculating facilities (aka, my friends & my brain), I have updated the Expressjet LF totals reported earlier for October 2007.

Here are flight segment; frequency; load factor; total pax.

SMF-ABQ – 2x/day - 54% - 1671

SMF-BFL – 1x/day - 45% - 697

SMF-COS – 2x/day - 55% - 1703

SMF-GEG – 3x/day - 33% - 1536

SMF-OKC – 1x/day - 87% - 1356

SMF-SAT – 2x/day - 61% - 1853

SMF-TUL – 1x/day - 72% - 1123

SMF-TUS – 2x/day - 65% - 2028

SMF-SAT may actually be higher (about 72%), but some of the flights were diverted to Austin and can't be counted. I would look for a story on this with similar figures from Shallit in the near future...
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  #129  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 8:48 PM
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The west flank of a planned high-rise airport hotel now will be three stories shorter. Otherwise, it would have blocked air traffic tower controllers' view of a portion of the west runway.
How many floors will remain then?

It looks like Sac might be heading towards a hotel glut near the airport. Three new hotels have opened at the I-5/Del Paso intersection already (Four Points, Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn) and two others well under construction. 600 or so new rooms just at that one exit.

Ideally there would be a hotel right at the airport. Too bad that didn't happen before all these others went up.
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  #130  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
How many floors will remain then?

It looks like Sac might be heading towards a hotel glut near the airport. Three new hotels have opened at the I-5/Del Paso intersection already (Four Points, Holiday Inn Express, Hampton Inn) and two others well under construction. 600 or so new rooms just at that one exit.

Ideally there would be a hotel right at the airport. Too bad that didn't happen before all these others went up.

The new hotel would have seven floors instead of ten like proposed. Also,
there is a hotel at the airport that sits right across the street from Terminal B
but it only has 89 rooms, so it looks like they are trying to boost that number
to meet demand.
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  #131  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
The new hotel would have seven floors instead of ten like proposed. Also,
there is a hotel at the airport that sits right across the street from Terminal B
but it only has 89 rooms, so it looks like they are trying to boost that number
to meet demand.
Actually part of the hotel will remain at ten stories. Just the western most side of the tower will be reduced, so that the hotel will be 7 stories on the western most side and 10 stories on the east side.


Quote:
The west flank of a planned high-rise airport hotel now will be three stories shorter. Otherwise, it would have blocked air traffic tower controllers' view of a portion of the west runway.

Quote:
As for airport architects, they say shortening the west side of the hotel is not all bad.

"It may create a more interesting-looking building than a square block at the end of the terminal," said Brent Kelley of Corgan Associates.
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  #132  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 2:43 AM
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Originally Posted by plinko View Post
Anybody have an airport map showing the location of the existing tower? I honestly can't remember (it's been awhile since I flew into SMF)...I just recall it's like an orange/red color and looks horribly outdated.




It's where the red circle is..
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  #133  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 3:51 AM
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^Thanks. For some reason I thought it was on the other side of the East-West taxiway between the runways. I think I confused it with Tulsa (similar airport layout)
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  #134  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 4:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
The new hotel would have seven floors instead of ten like proposed. Also, here is a hotel at the airport that sits right across the street from Terminal B but it only has 89 rooms, so it looks like they are trying to boost that number to meet demand.
I'm surprised that 1960's-looking two story motel outside Terminal B is staying. I'm not saying it's a bad place. I've never stayed there. It just looks out of place to me, from another era, next to the big and busy place SMF has become. A more upscale brand at the airport will have a locational advantage over the pack on Del Paso. I'd love to see an Embassy Suites at the airport.
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  #135  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 4:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
I'm surprised that 1960's-looking two story motel outside Terminal B is staying.
I don't think it has been mentioned anywhere that the old Host Motel was
staying, just that more rooms will now be added with the expansion. See the
new hotel in the back ground below.

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  #136  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 7:14 PM
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Yes, the new concourse and hotel look good. And a quality hotel of any size will be a great asset to the airport.

I just looked at the "proposed configuration" diagram in Urban Encounter's first post to this thread, and I admit I could be reading the diagram wrong, but it looks like the Airport Host would have to be torn down to build what's proposed.

This is kind of interesting. A slideshow of the rooms at the Airport Host Hotel, from the hotel's website:


http://www.hostairporthotel.com/guest.html
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  #137  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 8:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
I just looked at the "proposed configuration" diagram in Urban Encounter's first post to this thread, and I admit I could be reading the diagram wrong, but it looks like the Airport Host would have to be torn down to build what's proposed.
Do people read anymore??

From the article posted on THIS PAGE:

Quote:
For the moment, another hotel issue stands in the way. County officials are negotiating to buy the existing Host Marriott hotel at the airport to knock it down to make room.

Airport officials said they are within days of an agreement. Hotel company officials said only that negotiations were continuing. County officials said they are prepared to use eminent domain if negotiations fail.
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  #138  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 10:59 PM
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I admit I don't read every word of every article that gets posted here, snfenoc.

Good luck to the airport and the hotel in their negotiations.
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  #139  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by snfenoc View Post
Do people read anymore??
Geez...snfenoc, calm down. Not everyone has time to read every post. Was a post about people not reading every post really necessary?
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  #140  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 5:54 AM
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I don't believe I asked for your opinion, jsf8278. But thanks for volunteering it.

Look, I understand some forumers don't come here often; they are ignorant of many projects, and that is fine. Informing people is what this forum is all about. But spoon feeding information to those who are especially obtuse is really annoying.

Let's say an average-length article is posted with facts like:
1) The west flank of a hotel will be cut from 10 to 7 stories
2) The current hotel is going to be knocked down for space

Then, somebody references the article, but has the gall to ask questions like:
1) How many stories will the west flank of the new hotel be?
2) What is going to happen to the current hotel? Shouldn't it be knocked down?

Here's what I have to say to that person. Read the damn article. The information is right there. Come on, how hard is it to spend 3 or 4 minutes reading an article? It can't be as hard as asking stupid questions on a forum and waiting for someone to point out the obvious.
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Last edited by snfenoc; Feb 7, 2008 at 6:08 AM.
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