Toronto's dirty secret, the suburban slum

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Coral Builder

You wrote the following:
"And development charges are absolutely passed on down to the taxpayer". If you wanted to say consumer, you should have said consumer.

Last time I checked, consumers are taxpayers.

Going back to your notion of raising development charges, as you increase development charges, you directly raise property values which of course RAISES PROPERTY TAXES (and this isn't through the percentage that is set by the City).

Furthermore, if you limit development, you limit supply which drives prices up on the existing stock across the city. Which again... RAISES PROPERTY TAXES.

Just who do you think you're hurting with raising development charges? Are you driving away potential immigrants? People who already live here like yourself?

What happens if you have a city that doesn't allow new development? What happens if we don't expand the tax base, if we don't take in good amounts of development fees? Is the existing property tax base enough to keep all city services running? Nevermind providing any improvements to the existing services, expansion of services or any immediately required costly repair / replacement of aging infrastructure. Name one municipality in Canada that this is the case. What is the alternative? Here's a hint... gravy-train cost slashing isn't even going to cover a fraction of the money lost from development charges.

What happens when construction jobs dry up because there is no new development? What happens to the trades? What happens to these trades people who are also consumers... what happens to the retailers that rely upon these consumers?

how do you think they control growth and population distribution in most cities

Zoning, OP, Secondary Plans. Zoning needs to conform with Secondary Plans & Official Plans, if Zoning or ZBA don't you'll know where the OMB stands. Secondary Plans & Official Plans need to conform with the Provincial Policy Statement, Places to Grow Act and requires approval by the Ministry of Municipal Affairs & Housing (Provincial Ministry). Sorry.. but what was your point again? Something about Rob Ford?

Ford supporters are completely delusional bunch. It's all a one track gravy-train mind that cannot think beyond the next step. Follow the big-mouth blowhard, because goddamn it, we don't need no stinkin' supporting facts, if he says something publicly and loud-enough, it must be true!

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Coral Builder

You wrote the following:
"And development charges are absolutely passed on down to the taxpayer". If you wanted to say consumer, you should have said consumer.

Tony already covered this in his response, but taxpayer and consumer are synonomous in this context.

Originally Posted by Coral Builder

And raising development charges is a proven way to slow population growth in specific areas. If you are an urban planner, you should be well aware of this, so I don't know what we are arguing about??

The experiences of Oakville show that high development charges are not really a proven way to slow population growth, despite what lip-service the mayor plays to conservation of greenspace. In reality the town has just ended up with high-end residential development. In any event, slowing growth is contrary to the stated intent within the Development Charges Act (http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...s_97d27_e.htm), which outlines that charges are designed specifically to cover costs born by the municipality in regards to increased servicing. Section 5 of the Act covers the criteria by which charges are determined.

In theory Toronto could raise development charges by an amount large enough to slow residential construction, but any such action would need to be backed up with very solid reasoning. A long, drawn out OMB case at the expense of the city would be the likely result, even if such a by-law would make it through public consultation and council. Of course the Province could directly overturn the by-law if it was evident that such actions were a direct attempt to contravene the prescribed targets in the Growth Plan.

[diskojoe]

you canadians and your crazy preceptions of what poverty and slums are. so funny.

if this is the ghetto then send me a plane ticket cause im there!

seriously, come to houston. ill take you to 3rd ward at night and dump you out. if you make it back alive then we could talk about slums and ghetto. but you would not make it back.

[Doady]

The ghettos are definitely a serious problem that Toronto needs to fix. Here's what Rob Ford needs to do:

1. Demolish all high-rise buildings outside the old city.
2. Permanently ban all new development to drive up property values and drive out the peasants.
3. Dramatically increase residential property taxes to drive out the peasants.
4. Implement a curfew outside the old city.
5. Head tax on newcomers belonging to "unassimilable" cultures.
6. Build a wall around the city to prevent immigrants from coming in.
7. Join forces with the Catholic, Protestant, and Anglican churches to build residential schools and make enrollment mandatory for all children of immigrants.
8. Ban the hijab, niqab, and the burqa.
9. Require all storefront signs to be in English only.
10. Require immigrants to carry at all times papers proving their citizenship.
11. Ban public transit and cycling.

Problem solved.

[isaidso]

I realize that's a joke, but give the guy a break. Ford's certainly not an intellectual or a big defender of liberty, but he's not as bad as that. He volunteers, coaches, and financially backs a football team for disadvantaged youth. Most of them are black.


Courtesy of the National Post

[pj3000]

^ looks like a retard to me

[Tony]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I realize that's a joke, but give the guy a break. Ford's certainly not an intellectual or a big defender of liberty, but he's not as bad as that. He volunteers, coaches, and financially backs a football team for disadvantaged youth. Most of them are black.

Uh-huh.. I wonder if he started that "hobby" as a result of the 50 hours community service he did coaching football for the DUI in Florida in 1999.

Btw, Ward 2 (the location of Don Bosco Catholic Secondary School) has a median household income of $54,308. The overall City-wide median household income is $52,833. (Statistics Canada 2005 census data, both available on the City of Toronto website) Pretty well average with the rest of the city and not below. Makes me wonder if these so-called "dis-advantaged youth" are really all that disadvantaged as Ford's PR may have spun it.

[isaidso]

I didn't vote for the guy, but people aren't exactly giving him a fair shake. Post #84 is absurd. Ford's our mayor now, and people in this city need to get over it/be a little more constructive. All the negativity is not going to do any of us any good.

[Doady]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I didn't vote for the guy, but people aren't exactly giving him a fair shake. Post #84 is absurd. Ford's our mayor now, and people in this city need to get over it/be a little more constructive. All the negativity is not going to do any of us any good.

Of course it is absurd. It's supposed to be absurd. The real question is whether Rob Ford would find it absurd. He blames many of the problems of Toronto on immigration and he does want a complete ban on immigration after all. Anyways, I wasn't mocking Rob Ford specifically in my post. Also certain posters here as well.

I'll give Rob Ford one thing, his answer to crime (sports) is far more progressive than either Smitherman's (more police) or Pantalone's (status quo: increased recreation fees).

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by isaidso

I didn't vote for the guy, but people aren't exactly giving him a fair shake. Post #84 is absurd. Ford's our mayor now, and people in this city need to get over it/be a little more constructive. All the negativity is not going to do any of us any good.

I tend to agree, though reluctantly. His policy positions are extremely regressive and destructive to a thriving, cosmopolitan city, but everything I heard about him when he was an Etobicoke councillor was positive. By all accounts he was unfailingly proactive in responding to his constituents' complaints and needs. There's a lot to be said for a person who has integrity and a solid work ethic, even if those good traits are in the service of completely wrong-headed policy ideals.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by Gresto

I tend to agree, though reluctantly. His policy positions are extremely regressive and destructive to a thriving, cosmopolitan city, but everything I heard about him when he was an Etobicoke councillor was positive. By all accounts he was unfailingly proactive in responding to his constituents' complaints and needs. There's a lot to be said for a person who has integrity and a solid work ethic, even if those good traits are in the service of completely wrong-headed policy ideals.

The thing is though, if you've ever seen this guy in Council Meetings and other Committee Meetings you'll quickly realize he only has one thing to say, and it's always about money. Never any productive ideas, only financial criticism, whine whine whine... if the issue at hand does have a $ attached to it, he'll sit there like a lump with no participation. This man is no leader and certainly not a visionary.

[SouthByMidwest]

As ridiculous as this thread is (and I can't say I bothered to read it all), Mike has some chops on the photo end of things. Maybe cut the bullshit and just get out and take some pictures in and around Toronto and/or elsewhere.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Gresto

By all accounts he was unfailingly proactive in responding to his constituents' complaints and needs. There's a lot to be said for a person who has integrity and a solid work ethic, even if those good traits are in the service of completely wrong-headed policy ideals.

This is very true. However, as Tony pointed out there is a lot more to being a councillor - much less a mayor - than simply answering phone calls and using your clout to get someones garbage bin replaced more quickly. It seems that Ford simply spent an undue amount of time answering calls. If you look at his council record (or viewed him in council) it becomes clear that he spent little time during meetings he attended actually in the chamber, did not read briefs or staff reports (a major complaint within the organization I've been told) and reactively voted against things. The fact he was often the sole vote against proposals even staunch conservatives such as Holyday were in favour of is telling.

[Gresto]

Originally Posted by Tony

The thing is though, if you've ever seen this guy in Council Meetings and other Committee Meetings you'll quickly realize he only has one thing to say, and it's always about money. Never any productive ideas, only financial criticism, whine whine whine... if the issue at hand does have a $ attached to it, he'll sit there like a lump with no participation. This man is no leader and certainly not a visionary.

Originally Posted by niwell

This is very true. However, as Tony pointed out there is a lot more to being a councillor - much less a mayor - than simply answering phone calls and using your clout to get someones garbage bin replaced more quickly. It seems that Ford simply spent an undue amount of time answering calls. If you look at his council record (or viewed him in council) it becomes clear that he spent little time during meetings he attended actually in the chamber, did not read briefs or staff reports (a major complaint within the organization I've been told) and reactively voted against things. The fact he was often the sole vote against proposals even staunch conservatives such as Holyday were in favour of is telling.

No argument here. At best he should have been re-elected as councillor, where he could have continued to deal effectively with petty grievances of individuals in his ward, while voting against any and every expenditure in the chamber. I'm really just trying to put the best face on this predicament, hoping it doesn't become an unmitigated disaster for the city.

[LSyd]

nice slum, could use more graffiti and garbage strewn about though.

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[diskojoe]

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