DENVER | Transportation Thread

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I think we'll find out shortly what it will look like when DeverRight comes out with their transit study. Personally, I think a cut and cover tunnel down 17th, with an underground tunnel connecting to Union Station & the bus terminal would be ideal as a first phase. The other end would come down Broadway and terminate at Colfax, with ground-level access to Civic Center station. Two or three stops along the way would be appropriate to drop people off at the other end of LoDo, connect to the D line & L line light rail line, and possibly around upper downtown. Any more stops than that and you're going to slow the line down too much.

Denver Moves: Transit is not working on downtown transit planning and is primarily focused on High Capacity corridors (BRT, maybe rail), Priority Bus Corridors (Enhanced Bus and BRT Lite), and a Frequent Transit Network.

Downtown transit planning will happen through Denver Moves: Downtown starting next year.


FWIW, the 1986 Downtown Area Plan envisioned a transit tunnel under 15th St.

[Cirrus]

This looks like a nice line, and it's probably perfect for Albuquerque, and it's a great model for cities all over the US including mine. But ITDP must've lowered their standards for it to qualify as gold.

This is what gold-level BRT is supposed to look like:


[url=https://www.instagram.com/p/BKTKyicja_4/]exploradorurbano on instagram

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Either 16th or 17th would work. I'd give it two intermediate stops, at Larimer and Stout/California.

Thanks Cirrus- This is what I was thinking in terms of stops too.

Do you think the corridor would have enough traffic to justify the cost? I know the mall ride has an outrageous amount of traffic, but I'm sure a lot of that is 2 or 3 block trips and the busses run at really short intervals.
For example - I ride the W to Union Station and work on Welton, so a subway from one end of the mall to the other might save a few minutes of slow going on the mall ride, but if they only run every 15 minutes unless I could catch one right away it probably wouldn't be much faster.

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

FWIW, the 1986 Downtown Area Plan envisioned a transit tunnel under 15th St.

And this makes me think - what would the focus of a subway be? Moving office workers to and from their office buildings during rush hour? Shuffling tourists around on the weekends? The routes we've talked about don't connect to the most heavily populated downtown neighborhoods or provide much of a use on weekends or evenings.

[The Dirt]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Denver Moves: Transit is not working on downtown transit planning and is primarily focused on High Capacity corridors (BRT, maybe rail), Priority Bus Corridors (Enhanced Bus and BRT Lite), and a Frequent Transit Network.

Downtown transit planning will happen through Denver Moves: Downtown starting next year.


FWIW, the 1986 Downtown Area Plan envisioned a transit tunnel under 15th St.

My bad, I thought that any Colfax or Broadway plans implied that they could trunk into Union Station through the downtown grid.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by mojiferous

Do you think the corridor would have enough traffic to justify the cost? I know the mall ride has an outrageous amount of traffic, but I'm sure a lot of that is 2 or 3 block trips and the busses run at really short intervals.
For example - I ride the W to Union Station and work on Welton, so a subway from one end of the mall to the other might save a few minutes of slow going on the mall ride, but if they only run every 15 minutes unless I could catch one right away it probably wouldn't be much faster.

And this makes me think - what would the focus of a subway be? Moving office workers to and from their office buildings during rush hour? Shuffling tourists around on the weekends? The routes we've talked about don't connect to the most heavily populated downtown neighborhoods or provide much of a use on weekends or evenings.

I can (and usually do) walk about half the length of the mall from Union Station to upper downtown before a mall shuttle catches up to me. The metro ride is far more efficient at getting me from one end of downtown to the other, but it's got it's shortcomings. It doesn't run frequently enough. In many instances I've walked from Union Station to the stop at Glenarm and Broadway in the same time it would have taken me to wait for the bus and ride, and I'd much rather get the exercise. It has very limited operating hours. If the A line is 2-3 minutes late, I miss the last connection to the metro ride (about 9:10am). Lastly, it's just not a comfortable ride.

The purpose of the subway would then be to, first, replace the metro ride with a more frequent, dependable, fast, and comfortable connection between lower downtown and upper downtown. While job commuters would be the primary customers, I can also see upper downtown and uptown residents using the subway to connect to Union Station and the A line on their way to the airport. Additionally, travelers would now have a viable connection to events at Civic Center from the rail network. Finally, a subway connecting the opposite sides of downtown would ultimately elevate the entire bus system, by connecting the future Colfax BRT (or at least the 15) to the regional bus lines that terminate at DUS (FF, Bustang, etc.).

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

FWIW, the 1986 Downtown Area Plan envisioned a transit tunnel under 15th St.

I happen to read earlier that Nashville has estimated a cost of $936 million for its 1.8 mile length. Would Denver's subway likely be about 1 mile?

I assume that cost-wise Nashville is roughly comparable to Denver so maybe a guestimate of $600 million in today's dollars might be realistic. That's seems reasonable to me and could fit nicely into D-Met Transport.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

This looks like a nice line, and it's probably perfect for Albuquerque, and it's a great model for cities all over the US including mine. But ITDP must've lowered their standards for it to qualify as gold.

Regardless of any standards changes, I'd like to see Denver go for the gold - at least for the segment that will receive the BRT treatment.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The purpose of the subway would then be to, first, replace the metro ride with a more frequent, dependable, fast, and comfortable connection between lower downtown and upper downtown. While job commuters would be the primary customers, I can also see upper downtown and uptown residents using the subway to connect to Union Station and the A line on their way to the airport. Additionally, travelers would now have a viable connection to events at Civic Center from the rail network. Finally, a subway connecting the opposite sides of downtown would ultimately elevate the entire bus system, by connecting the future Colfax BRT (or at least the 15) to the regional bus lines that terminate at DUS (FF, Bustang, etc.).

Well said.

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by The Dirt

I can (and usually do) walk about half the length of the mall from Union Station to upper downtown before a mall shuttle catches up to me. The metro ride is far more efficient at getting me from one end of downtown to the other, but it's got it's shortcomings. It doesn't run frequently enough. In many instances I've walked from Union Station to the stop at Glenarm and Broadway in the same time it would have taken me to wait for the bus and ride, and I'd much rather get the exercise. It has very limited operating hours. If the A line is 2-3 minutes late, I miss the last connection to the metro ride (about 9:10am). Lastly, it's just not a comfortable ride.

Agreed - the only time I ride either one (I walk from Union Station to 16th & Welton) is when it's below zero. But it also takes me about 15 minutes to walk and about 10-12 minutes on the bus, so unless they were running every 5 minutes I'm not sure a subway trip would be any more efficient.

Originally Posted by The Dirt

The purpose of the subway would then be to, first, replace the metro ride with a more frequent, dependable, fast, and comfortable connection between lower downtown and upper downtown. While job commuters would be the primary customers, I can also see upper downtown and uptown residents using the subway to connect to Union Station and the A line on their way to the airport. Additionally, travelers would now have a viable connection to events at Civic Center from the rail network. Finally, a subway connecting the opposite sides of downtown would ultimately elevate the entire bus system, by connecting the future Colfax BRT (or at least the 15) to the regional bus lines that terminate at DUS (FF, Bustang, etc.).

This would definitely make Civic Center a much more attractive connection point.

[TakeFive]

I'm getting old; nothing makes sense any more

Especially after reading comments on housing affordability on the main page.

Then there's this:
White House Wants States and Localities to 'Engage in More Self Help' With Infrastructure
DECEMBER 4, 2017 By Bill Lucia - Route Fifty

WASHINGTON — One of President Trump's top infrastructure advisers last week emphasized that the administration's pending investment plan for the nation's public works will be designed to push state and local governments toward coming up with their own money for projects before turning to the federal government for funds.

How nice; at least there's this:

Gribbin also noted that the administration wants to keep, for the most part, existing infrastructure funding programs in place, such as the Highway Trust Fund and so-called "state revolving funds."

At least we have our priorities straight?
U.S. has spent more than $4 trillion on wars since 9/11

I've come to appreciate more and more the job that CDOT has done with limited funding. I've been spoiled by living in Phoenix where the last 22-mile "bypass," the '202' will be completed in 2019 ($1.77 billion) for a Best in Class freeway system. What's nice is if I get caught along the 8-lane '101' during rush hour I just take the one-way two lane frontage road to bypass the congestion as I'm not usually going that far.

bunt... I see where Cory Gardner is taking credit for helping obtain $416 million for Central 70
Federal funding approved for I-70 expansion project in Denver
December 6, 2017 by Jessica Machetta - Colorado Politics

A federal loan of up to $416 million has been awarded to Lenexa-based Kiewit Meridiam Partners LLC for the Central Interstate 70 project. Sen. Cory Gardner says in a press release he led efforts in the Senate to block changes to the Transportation Infrastructure Finance and Innovation Act program in 2015, which could have impacted...

I assume we're down to having the formal loan closing, eh?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

bunt... I see where Cory Gardner is taking credit for helping obtain $416 million for Central 70
Federal funding approved for I-70 expansion project in Denver
December 6, 2017 by Jessica Machetta - Colorado Politics

I assume we're down to having the formal loan closing, eh?

I am willing to share. And yes, just a closing left (any DC forumers who want to get a drink later this month, let me know!). The Bridge Enterprise Board of Directors also approved the PABs issuance last night.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

(any DC forumers who want to get a drink later this month, let me know!).

Lol. You have my number. We just opened one of my two HOT lane projects this Monday.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

We just opened one of my two HOT lane projects this Monday.

The Lesson of $40 Highway Tolls in Virginia

[Cirrus]

Yeah.

1. There's been a lot of irrational griping from drivers who think they're entitled to things for cheap. People are complaining about the high cost of something they were completely prohibited from doing before (traffic counts imply a lot of current complainers were probably cheating the system and using it illegally before). It's an interesting phenomenon but we're not going to coddle that mentality.

2. That said, it does appear the algorithm governing toll rates is miscalibrated. That Streetsblog article actually gets one fact wrong: VDOT is supposed to calibrate the toll rates for "averaging at least 45 mph," which is the mathematical peak throughput (and peak revenue) speed for an interstate. But average speeds have been nearly 60 mph, and the road is at... better than free-flow conditions. So it does appear that the tolls are too high.

[TakeFive]

I Love Pie Charts

What does RTD's falling ridership look like and what does it mean.

I happen to find an easy peasy pdf slide of RTD's revenue and expenses. Page 5 which is a Fare Revenue Breakdown got me to thinking about Farebox Recovery Ratios. Wikipedia defines it;

The farebox recovery ratio (also called fare recovery ratio, fare recovery rate or other terms) of a passenger transportation system is the fraction of operating expenses which are met by the fares paid by passengers. It is computed by dividing the system's total fare revenue by its total operating expenses.

According to those nifty pie charts, RTD's farebox recovery is about 21.5%. Checking out several peer cities I found that King County (Seattle) has a fare recovery rate of almost 31%, Portland TriMet's recover rate is 27.5%, Las Vegas' RTC recovery rate is just over 50% and the Twin Cities Metro recovery rate including advertising is 33%.

Given RTD's Operating Expenses are $626.1 million if RTD could boost ridership up to at least 25% they'd generate $22 million in additional farebox revenue. On the flip side if RTD's current farebox revenue equalled 25% of their operating expenses, they'd have to cut expenses down to $538.4 million. Holy Moly.

[mhays]

King County Metro runs local buses plus a couple streetcar lines, not longer express buses, light rail, or commuter rail which are run by Sound Transit. That might affect the farebox recovery percentage.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

King County Metro runs local buses plus a couple streetcar lines, not longer express buses, light rail, or commuter rail which are run by Sound Transit. That might affect the farebox recovery percentage.

Thanks, I don't necessarily understand all of it but using this Seattle Times piece they also show Sound Transit light rail at 40% and the Ferries at 73.2%. Now Snohomish County is a RTD comparable 23%.

[TakeFive]

Someday the Sun Will Rise and Shine from the East Like it's Supposed To


Photo by Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite

Decision on G Line will arrive in February or later
December 10, 2017 by Andrew Kenney - Denverite

A state decision on the opening of the G Line will arrive no earlier than February, and it’ll likely be later than that.

There must be a hearing with an administrative law judge before a decision can be made. That won’t happen until Feb. 15 and 16 at the earliest, or March 12 to 14 at the latest, depending on how much testimony is filed beforehand. After the hearing, a decision from the state commission would likely arrive within a month, according to PUC spokesman Terry Bote.

Props to Andrew for finishing his article with the "choo choo sound."

RTD And Contractor Battle Over Blame For N Line Commuter Train Delays
DEC 8, 2017 BY NATHANIEL MINOR - CPR

The Regional Transportation District and a private contractor are in the midst of a dispute over which party is responsible for construction delays on the $343 million N Line commuter train line from Denver to Thornton.

The disagreement is laid out in Denver District Court documents filed earlier this year, .... District Court Judge Jay Grant eventually ordered the two parties to try to resolve the disagreement through arbitration.

I really don't care about all these delays aside from still being frustrated that their whiz bang system can't properly perform a relatively simple function like operating gates at intersections.

RTD already has enough issues with Operating Revenue and Expenses and I'm concerned these two commuter rail lines will only aggravate the issue in the near term. So take all the time you need and if by chance.... oh, nvm.

[TakeFive]

Welcome to the New Civic Center Station

LOOK: Civic Center Station is almost ready for the masses
December 12, 2017 by Kevin Beaty - Denverite

All photos courtesy of Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite


Inside Civic Center Station, which is almost ready to open, Dec. 12, 2017. (Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite)



A free Mallride bus lined up outside the new terminal. (Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite)



Inside the new Civic Center Station. (Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite)



Inside the new Civic Center Station. (Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite)



The 16th Street Mall seen from Civic Center Station. (Kevin J. Beaty/Denverite)


Also: DBJ has a Slideshow

[Cirrus]

Thanks for posting the photos. Streetsblog also has a write-up that I found informative.

[The Dirt]

I love that we bothered covering our secondary downtown bus bub, but we didn't bother covering 3/4 of the platforms at Union Station.

[CastleScott]

I love that we bothered covering our secondary downtown bus bub, but we didn't bother covering 3/4 of the platforms at Union Station.

Lol! I agree-its like the designers don't think it rains/snows in Denver.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by CastleScott

Lol! I agree-its like the designers don't think it rains/snows in Denver.

It hasn’t rained or snowed for the past two months.