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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 3:45 AM
coalminecanary coalminecanary is offline
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Want to see an example of what happens when you build new streetwall in Hamilton without being very careful to preserve the heritage aspects (and I don't just mean lintels, I mean the dynamic of the building living with the street not just sitting atop it)?

Look at the Gore building. I mean it's not even that bad. But it sits empty and sticks out like a sore thumb. It contributes very little to the street. Now picture a glass wall with a parking garage atop it. This is Blanchard's vision. For Gore Park no less. There is no need to apologise for him. Those buildings are not falling down, they are not "done" as he puts it, they are not unsalvageable.

We have a city full of parking lots. If he sold those buildings for market value he could buy a parking lot to build his boxes on. And there are people who would buy them. Not at speculator prices but at market prices. There is no excuse for tearing these down. Not one.

So lets stop congratulating him for his greed.

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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 5:07 PM
thistleclub thistleclub is offline
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The Gore Building carries another lesson in that its bricks-and-mortar turned out a lot more snaggletoothed and cockeyed than the array of comparatively simpatico renderings. The Lego-like vision for Blanchard's proposal does more to breed suspicion than build confidence.

Another takeaway? Mixed-use is fine in theory but takes a while to take root (blame the abundance of cheap, eclectic spaces in the downtown).

Speaking of takeaway, RIP Pagoda Downtown. Its new location on Main East makes me sad. 85 1/2 will never be the same.
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Last edited by thistleclub; Dec 22, 2012 at 1:26 PM.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 5:41 PM
CaptainKirk CaptainKirk is offline
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Originally Posted by thistleclub View Post
Speaking of takeaway, RIP Pagoda Downtown. Its new location on Main East makes me sad. 85 1/2 will never be the same.
Is it known what PAGODA moved after all these years?
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
The ONLY value Hamilton has is in its heritage. If we remove that architecture from downtown, you take away the one thing that makes it a worthwhile place.

What drew artists to James North and antique dealers to Locke? It wasn't easy access to the 403, I can tell you that.
+1

You get rid of stuff like this and Hamilton is no different than Oshawa or Mississauga. Nice, clean, successful by most measures, but utterly lacking in character. Run of the mill 905 blandness.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 6:22 PM
Duckyboy Duckyboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pEte fiSt iN Ur fAce View Post
The ONLY value Hamilton has is in its heritage. If we remove that architecture from downtown, you take away the one thing that makes it a worthwhile place.

What drew artists to James North and antique dealers to Locke? It wasn't easy access to the 403, I can tell you that.
I think there are a few more items of value in this city besides its heritage: it's geographical location (close to TO, NYC, MTL etc..), it's geography (waterfalls, Escarpment, Lake Ontario), it's people (anti-snobs), it's green spaces (surprising for an old industrial city) among a few others that I cannot think of at this moment. And yes, the heritage is one as well.

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't think that it's the only thing that makes Hamilton a worthwhile place. It's important, but not the be-all and end-all.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2012, 11:44 PM
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Seeing as there are so many negatives to this proposal, I thought it'd be fun to use Google SketchUp to make the proposal work better. I made a step-by-step list with SkethUps to explain what I would do to make the proposal work based on everyone's response to the proposal. I posted that on page 2 of the "If you were a developer (Just for fun)" thread, so if you wanna read it and see what potential there is for the property click here to go to the page I posted it on.

Here is a small and blurry capture for a sneak peek:
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 4:59 AM
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 7:32 AM
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Demo permit pending for Gore buildings

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...gore-buildings

Quote:
The clock is ticking for several buildings beside Gore Park.

Wilson and Blanchard, the firm that owns of 18-28 King St. E., has applied for a demolition permit from the city to make way for a massive new development on the south side of Gore Park. Early plans call for a two-storey grocery store opening off the park, an office tower, hundreds of underground and above-ground parking spots, and a condo tower fronting onto Main Street.

Wilson and Blanchard property manager Rob Miles told The Spectator in October that he hopes to begin demolition by June 1.
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 3:02 PM
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He doesn't even have a set plan yet. This thing is years away from fruition. Why is he in such a hurrty to tear them down.
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 4:22 PM
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At this point there's nothing the city can do. Council would have to come back before the Christmas break to stop the demolition permit and even doing that there's no guarantee there will be quorum.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2012, 9:21 PM
drpgq drpgq is offline
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Sucks for the tenants. Didn't that burger place open relatively recently?

Last edited by drpgq; Dec 21, 2012 at 9:21 PM. Reason: Missing question mark.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2012, 6:31 AM
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Quote:
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He doesn't even have a set plan yet. This thing is years away from fruition. Why is he in such a hurrty to tear them down.
I'm quite sure you can answer that question yourself.

Without sounding too melodramatic, this is a tragedy. The only reason I've ever made a point of sitting in Gore Park is to admire those buildings. They're not in great shape but they're still beautiful and worthy of restoration.

People with that much money shouldn't be pinching pennies with this sort of project. You want to build in that spot, then do the right thing.

If you want know what it's going to look like, just have a gander at the Jackson/Civic Square mega-block. James-York-Bay all the way up to Jackson, turned into a lifeless, concrete shitstorm of nothingness where once a vibrant, historic neighbourhood once stood.

Hamilton goes back to the future again.
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2012, 8:40 PM
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If this goes down, Hamilton is dead to me. I love the city, but I have to draw the line. I can't go on defending the city after something like this. Might as well be Oshawa or some other generic place.
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2012, 11:33 PM
durandy durandy is offline
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This is unbelievable. Singer building, Sanford school and now this. It's easy to read about the 1960s urban renewal craze and point out the mistakes - Vic Copps, Lloyd Jackson - just didn't understand how cities work. Beautiful City Hall and market makes way for silly mall. Everyone knows these were horrible mistakes. Bob Bratina has spoken numerous times about how bad these ideas were. And now here we are making exactly the same mistakes, one by one.
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 6:13 AM
palace1 palace1 is offline
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The Landed Banking and Loan Company building at Main and James had stucco applied to the east and north sides in September.

It seems suspicious that Blanchard would spend money on the stucco and then suddenly announce that some sort of condo/grocerystore/office complex is going to be attached to the bank.

If the Gore Park buildings are in such bad condition why is David Premi's office located in one of them? The health department also seems to have no concerns with the convenience store, Mahal, or Steel House Grill.

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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 3:26 PM
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I'm not familiar with the buildings they intend to demo... can someone post pictures of them so I get a better idea?
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 4:00 PM
movingtohamilton movingtohamilton is offline
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I thought this comment on RTH neatly sums up the attitude of Hamilton councillors attitude toward heritage:


"you're right except on one point- they (councillors) DO care about heritage, but not Hamilton's. If this was on Wilson Street in Ancaster, Ferguson would be making the rounds on CHML, CH, the Spec etc..... flipping his lid and talking about how restored heritage is good for business and the quality of life of a community etc.... They've proven by their actions that they don't care about the quality of life or business success of old Hamilton."
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
I'm not familiar with the buildings they intend to demo... can someone post pictures of them so I get a better idea?
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Originally Posted by flar View Post
More senseless destruction in Canada's stupidest city.

There is a proposal to demolish this row of five buildings in Gore Park, the heart of downtown Hamilton. The one on the left has already been demolished. The stone buildings on the right date to the 1840s



The Zig Zag Zebra building has already been demolished. The next four buildings are slated to be demolished. The last two are pre-Confederate stone facade buildings, likely limestone from the Escarpment. Those two I wish they could save the facade.

Current tenants have until May to move out. David Premi Architects is one of the tenant and they are the architect for the project.
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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Thanks.

It's a shame... those are some nice old buildings. Of course I don't know what the actual structural conditions are and if renovating them is possible or is even cost effective.

Hopefully there'll be worthy projects to replace them and in the not-too-distant future. I do like the idea of a big grocery store in the area - it's hard to get more downtown than at Gore park.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2012, 9:34 PM
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The condition is irrelevant. They could be saved if there were some will to save them. These buildings are only a liability if you plan to cheap out on the project.
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