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  #101  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2016, 11:48 PM
Mrs Sauga Mrs Sauga is offline
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Chiralli has now traded both the 1st overall pick (Hall) and 2nd (Seguin) for lesser players
     
     
  #102  
Old Posted Jun 29, 2016, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga View Post
So who has the worst GM now, Montreal or Vancouver?
Haha im not the biggest fan of the Canucks GM but we gave up a lot less for Gudbransson than Edmonton did for their new Dman.
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  #103  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 12:16 AM
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Haha im not the biggest fan of the Canucks GM but we gave up a lot less for Gudbransson than Edmonton did for their new Dman.
Trading a #1 goalie for a #2C at best though...
     
     
  #104  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 12:19 AM
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^^^ Ya we hate most of the trades he has made.
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  #105  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 12:47 AM
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Really?? And Weber is a strong leader and a consistent producer.
It doesn't matter... he's not going to make the Habs a contender and if he makes them better - it won't be THAT much better. They really should be thinking a moderate rebuild at least. Subban could've gotten them some good prospects and/or draft picks. This feels like a deal the Leafs would've made a few years ago - except the Habs didn't dish out draft picks as well.

The Habs are going to be in that same situation the Leafs were in for years... not good enough to make the playoffs, and not bad enough to get a high pick - just last last season.
     
     
  #106  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 2:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
It doesn't matter... he's not going to make the Habs a contender and if he makes them better - it won't be THAT much better. They really should be thinking a moderate rebuild at least. Subban could've gotten them some good prospects and/or draft picks. This feels like a deal the Leafs would've made a few years ago - except the Habs didn't dish out draft picks as well.

The Habs are going to be in that same situation the Leafs were in for years... not good enough to make the playoffs, and not bad enough to get a high pick - just last last season.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Draft picks and prospects are always a gamble. Between Price, Weber and Shaw, I expect the Habs to be a vastly improved team this year, in my opinion.
     
     
  #107  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 3:59 AM
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The Subban trade is a bit of a head scratcher, but it isn't completely lopsided - you can argue that the Canadiens got the better player in the deal, and Weber is still in his prime.

What doesn't make sense is why the Habs were in such a rush to move Subban - an upstanding member of the community, popular amongst the fans, and their second best player after Price - for anything that's not a clear upgrade. Maybe a clash of personalities between player and team management?

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Originally Posted by Berklon View Post
It doesn't matter... he's not going to make the Habs a contender and if he makes them better - it won't be THAT much better. They really should be thinking a moderate rebuild at least. Subban could've gotten them some good prospects and/or draft picks. This feels like a deal the Leafs would've made a few years ago - except the Habs didn't dish out draft picks as well.

The Habs are going to be in that same situation the Leafs were in for years... not good enough to make the playoffs, and not bad enough to get a high pick - just last last season.
The Habs are nothing like the Leafs. They have one of (if not the) best goaltenders in the world. They have a bona fide #1D in Weber. The Leafs teams you're referring to never had anything close to talent like this. The Habs have a window around Price - rebuilding through draft picks right now would be stupid.
     
     
  #108  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 4:42 AM
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The Habs are nothing like the Leafs. They have one of (if not the) best goaltenders in the world. They have a bona fide #1D in Weber. The Leafs teams you're referring to never had anything close to talent like this. The Habs have a window around Price - rebuilding through draft picks right now would be stupid.
They're not exactly like the Leafs, but their results aren't that much different. They had Price and Subban last year and missed the playoffs. If they make the playoffs this year, they'll just sneak in and exit early. They don't have to do a full rebuild, but a partial one would be wise - otherwise they're doomed to mediocrity and never be a true contender. In a few more years with this type of attitude, they'll wind up being a lot closer to how the Leafs were.
     
     
  #109  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 5:08 AM
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
The Subban trade is a bit of a head scratcher, but it isn't completely lopsided - you can argue that the Canadiens got the better player in the deal, and Weber is still in his prime.

What doesn't make sense is why the Habs were in such a rush to move Subban - an upstanding member of the community, popular amongst the fans, and their second best player after Price - for anything that's not a clear upgrade. Maybe a clash of personalities between player and team management?



The Habs are nothing like the Leafs. They have one of (if not the) best goaltenders in the world. They have a bona fide #1D in Weber. The Leafs teams you're referring to never had anything close to talent like this. The Habs have a window around Price - rebuilding through draft picks right now would be stupid.
I never agree with you but you really nailed it with this post.

I still cannot believe the trade. I am sick to my stomach.
Bergevin left me with good impressions during his first year acquiring Vanek at the deadline and going to the ECF (and who knows maybe Stanley Cup finals if Price didn't go down). He even finished 2nd in the GM of the year voting. Since then, he's become one of the worst.

This team is getting murdered today... people burning jerseys and a lot of people turning away from this garbage organization.







Subban is not only better and younger than Weber, he's also the most marketable player in the NHL. On the business side, we immediately drop from 2nd to 3rd in the league valuation wise and I would not be surprised to see us drop in 4th. This is the second worst trade in team's history after the Roy one.
     
     
  #110  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 5:43 AM
khabibulin khabibulin is offline
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On the business side, we immediately drop from 2nd to 3rd in the league valuation wise and I would not be surprised to see us drop in 4th. This is the second worst trade in team's history after the Roy one.
The difference between 2 and 3 (Habs and Leafs) is insignificant and will bounce back and forth. There is a $85 million gap between 3 and 4 (Chicago). Value of the Canadian $, or building a new arena, or a new TV deal will have a bigger impact on that than trading one player.

(from CBC) The Rangers are worth $1.2 billion US, according to Forbes, followed by the Canadiens at $1.18 billion and the Leafs at $1.15 billion.

Toronto had held the top spot every year since 2006, but the Rangers cashed in on renovations to their arena, Madison Square Garden, while the Canadiens' value rose 18 per cent from last year on the strength of a lucrative new local television rights deal.

Poor on-ice performance combined with a weaker Canadian dollar were cited by Forbes as reasons for the Leafs' decline in value from $1.3 billion last year.

The Chicago Blackhawks ($930 million) and the Boston Bruins ($750 million) rounded out the top five, followed by the Vancouver Canucks ($750 million) in sixth place.
     
     
  #111  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 6:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrs Sauga View Post
And this is a big part of why Canadian teams suck in recent years. Terrible management. Edmonton got fleeced for Taylor Hall. Montreal got fleeced for Subban. Vancouver gives up a #1 goalie for a #2C at best. Ottawa got fleeced for Spezza and Heatley and Bishop. I can't remember the last time a Canadian team made a fair trade lol.
This Jet fan thinks Winnipeg did all right trading Evander Kane and Zach Bogosian for Drew Stafford, Tyler Myers, Joel Armia, Brendan Lemieux and a first round pick a year and a half ago. By the way, Kane looks like he might be in some trouble again.
     
     
  #112  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 6:53 AM
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I think Nashville's GM just wanted to get out of Weber's longer contract.

Subban is *just* a notch below Weber.
That might have been the case a few years ago, but Weber's play has suffered a noticeable decline since then. He doesn't skate anywhere near as well as Subban, and in a league in which speed is becoming more important every year that will be detrimental to his overall play.

Shot differentials look particularly favorable with Subban on the ice. With Weber, they are less flattering. Expect the gap to grow between these two players in the next few years as Webber looks to be near the end of his prime while Subban is in the middle of his and a full 4 years younger than Shea.

Big win for Montreal who appeared to choose their crappy coach over their best player after Price.
     
     
  #113  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 6:56 AM
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Haha im not the biggest fan of the Canucks GM but we gave up a lot less for Gudbransson than Edmonton did for their new Dman.
Gudbranson is an awful defenseman who probably won't even become a top-4 d-man on a good team unless something dramatic changes. At least Larsson will be a decent top-4 d-man with enough upside to be a top-2.
     
     
  #114  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 7:01 AM
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Gudbranson is an awful defenseman who probably won't even become a top-4 d-man on a good team unless something dramatic changes. At least Larsson will be a decent top-4 d-man with enough upside to be a top-2.
Haha he better be he sure cost a lot more.
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  #115  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:08 PM
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They had Price and Subban last year and missed the playoffs. .
Price was actually out for most of the year.

They won their first 10 or more in a row and then they slowed down and then Price got injured. They never recovered after that.
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  #116  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:11 PM
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If they make the playoffs this year, they'll just sneak in and exit early. They don't have to do a full rebuild, but a partial one would be wise - otherwise they're doomed to mediocrity and never be a true contender. In a few more years with this type of attitude, they'll wind up being a lot closer to how the Leafs were.
Now on this point I will agree - they may be heading more into "Leafs territory" now. (As has long been rumoured about the Leafs where management doesn't care about success on the ice given that the money keeps coming in. If they wanted to, the Habs could likely pull something like this off for a good number of years. Especially if the Nordiques don't come back right away.)

I am not 100% sure but some of the signs might be there.
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  #117  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:23 PM
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Price was actually out for most of the year.

They won their first 10 or more in a row and then they slowed down and then Price got injured. They never recovered after that.
Right, and that's a problem. If the team suffers THAT badly from a player injury (even if it's an important position of goaltender) - then the team is missing too many pieces. Can't expect a goalie to do carry the team on his shoulders all season long, and then also expect him to do the same in the playoffs.
     
     
  #118  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:32 PM
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Now on this point I will agree - they may be heading more into "Leafs territory" now. (As has long been rumoured about the Leafs where management doesn't care about success on the ice given that the money keeps coming in. If they wanted to, the Habs could likely pull something like this off for a good number of years. Especially if the Nordiques don't come back right away.)
Actually, fans in Montreal have shown in the past that it doesn't take a lengthy number of seasons of icing bad teams for them to stay away. The fans aren't as forgiving as Leaf fans are... actually, no fans are as forgiving as Leaf fans are.

2 years ago was the first time in my life I've seen Leaf fans FINALLY turning away and voicing their displeasure. Tickets were easier to come by and the general interest in the team had dropped severely. I maintain it's one of the biggest reasons why Sportsnet ratings are suffering - Rogers took over HNIC at the absolute worst time... when Leaf fans were finally fed up.

The Habs can endure only a few years of bad hockey - so they need to either be contenders now... or start building a solid young team. They can't ride this middle-ground very long (ie. not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to score some great prospects). They don't have the luxury that MLSE had.
     
     
  #119  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:51 PM
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Actually, fans in Montreal have shown in the past that it doesn't take a lengthy number of seasons of icing bad teams for them to stay away. The fans aren't as forgiving as Leaf fans are... actually, no fans are as forgiving as Leaf fans are.

2 years ago was the first time in my life I've seen Leaf fans FINALLY turning away and voicing their displeasure. Tickets were easier to come by and the general interest in the team had dropped severely. I maintain it's one of the biggest reasons why Sportsnet ratings are suffering - Rogers took over HNIC at the absolute worst time... when Leaf fans were finally fed up.

The Habs can endure only a few years of bad hockey - so they need to either be contenders now... or start building a solid young team. They can't ride this middle-ground very long (ie. not good enough to make the playoffs, not bad enough to score some great prospects). They don't have the luxury that MLSE had.
Yeah, people are more fickle here. But I still wonder if the Habs could afford the luxury of not being very competitive for a while. The years where they were competitive (even if they did not win) were fantastic in building up Habs fandom all across the province. If I am out and about I see Habs gear and stickers, flags, etc. multiple times every day here in Gatineau even in mid-summer. And I am two hours away and technically in Ottawa Senators territory.

They have risen so high that even if they were to drop quite a bit they'll still be quite a way's from uncomfortable territory from a corporate standpoint.
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  #120  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2016, 1:53 PM
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This Jet fan thinks Winnipeg did all right trading Evander Kane and Zach Bogosian for Drew Stafford, Tyler Myers, Joel Armia, Brendan Lemieux and a first round pick a year and a half ago. By the way, Kane looks like he might be in some trouble again.
Funny you mention Kane... I was thinking that Subban got treated worse by the Habs organization than Kane got treated by the Jets, despite the fact that Subban is a great player and by most accounts, a stand-up guy.

I have to admit I don't know all the ins and outs of the Montreal organization, but I find the Subban trade a real head scratcher. I just don't see how the team is any better off for having made it. You'd think Subban's the kind of guy you'd want anchoring your team for the long haul...
     
     
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