Potential New Hwy Speed Limit Increases

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Since they increased the speed limits on the Coq and Okanagan Connector, I'm always under the speed limit now. Even before they increased the limit, I was often doing 105 on average.

I'm generally under the limit from Hope to the Coquihalla Summit (around 110), and at the limit elsewhere. I drove at the same speed before the limit was changed.

[go_leafs_go02]

Seen those variable speed limits in some US states. They work really well.

Just hope they have it down to a science to make sure the speed limit always seems reasonable and based on current conditions.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I'm generally under the limit from Hope to the Coquihalla Summit (around 110), and at the limit elsewhere. I drove at the same speed before the limit was changed.

Yea. They reported that the 85th percentile speed on the Coq actually went down from 128 to 127 since the speed limits went up.

On Hwy 1 from Abbotsford to Hope, I went from regularly going 5-10 above the speed limit to doing the speed limit.

[The_Henry_Man]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

Seen those variable speed limits in some US states. They work really well.

Just hope they have it down to a science to make sure the speed limit always seems reasonable and based on current conditions.

I've seen those variable speed limits in city limits in both Seattle and Minneapolis. I think they would work well here within Metro Vancouver as well, especially between Lonsdale and Kensington on the 1 and Bridgeport and 17A interchange on the 99.

[SFUVancouver]

B.C. government to roll back speed limits on two highways after increase in crashes

Kelly Sinoski
Published on: June 28, 2016 | Last Updated: June 28, 2016 5:20 PM PDT

The B.C. government plans to roll back speed limits on two highway segments — Highway 1 from Hope to Boston Bar and Highway 5A from Aspen Grove to Princeton — despite the fact that crash rates have gone up on 14 routes following its move to boost limits in 2014.

The B.C. government plans to roll back the speed limits on only two highway segments — Highway 1 from Hope to Boston Bar and Highway 5A from Aspen Grove to Princeton — despite the fact that crash rates had gone up on 14 routes following a provincial decision to boost the posted speed limits in 2014.

B.C. Transportation Minister Todd Stone said it appears increased congestion and speed are the causes of serious crashes on those two segments, whereas the government believes the other 12 routes could be improved by measures such as adding rumble strips, variable speed zones, wildlife signs and message boards.

[...]

New data released by the B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure shows that crash rates have dropped, or are unchanged, on 19 of 33 sections of highway. The Coquihalla from Hope to Kamloops, for example, where the speed limit was increased from 110 km/h to 120 km/h, continues to see the lowest crash rate in the last 10 years.

The ministry’s analysis, released today, compares crash data from Nov. 1, 2014 to Oct. 31, 2015 with crash data from the previous three years. It shows:

• On seven sections, the rate of speed decreased and crashes decreased.

• On 12 sections, the rate of speed increased and crashes decreased.

• On seven sections, the rate of speed increased and crashes increased.

• On the remaining seven sections, the data shows the crash rate increased, despite motorists travelling slower than they did before.

[...]

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...ase-in-crashes

[WarrenC12]

But I thought speed didn't cause accidents? Where's the comment from SENSE?

[jlousa]

the conclusion to me appears to prove speed doesn't cause crashes

12 routes with less crashes and increased speeds

7 routes with more crashes and increased speeds
7 routes with more crashes and decreased speeds

The last two would nullify each other leaving an increase in speed leading to less crashes. This is as per the quote above.
Glad to see the province constantly examining these numbers and making adjustments as needed be they up or down.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jlousa

the conclusion to me appears to prove speed doesn't cause crashes

Speed probably causes accidents, I think you mean increases in posted speed limits.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Speed probably causes accidents, I think you mean increases in posted speed limits.

Variations in speed causes accidents. In this case speed limits were posted low and were creating variations in speed between those following the speed signs and those traveling at the naturally safe speed.

The increase in speeds reduced the number of crashes, as it should have. Increased speed made many of our highways safer.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Speed probably causes accidents, I think you mean increases in posted speed limits.

Speed causes accidents when combined with bad drivers which includes those on cell phones, distracted with conversations, not able to think quick enough to react to situations, newbies, etc.

Personally I think distracted driving has far more impact on accidents than speed alone. Heck there was a line of about 15 cars today on my way to work on the SFPR that had to slam on the brakes and slow down to 75kph (yes under the speedlimit) because of a pickup truck in the left lane. We went around and guess what he was on his cell phone.

So if someone smashed into the back you'd likely hear "speed was a factor" when it wasn't, it was an idiot on their cell phone in the left lane.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

But I thought speed didn't cause accidents? Where's the comment from SENSE?

Speed can contribute to crashing. This whole notion of X causes Y is just a myth because it is easy to report that in the media in sound bites. The truth is that in reality, a lot of factors from distraction levels to road design to other people and congestion can contribute. Heck weather should be in there too. The vehicle you drive too has a big impact. Someone in a big F250 pickup driving 100kmph has a higher probability of speed contribution to a crash that someone in a high performance sports car that (1) weighs less, (2) has better brakes and shorter breaking distance, and (3) has more in-tuned suspension and handling.

I drove the Sea to Sky many times in my old pickup and in my sports car. Same person driving with same experience, and I can tell you driving that highway at the speed limit felt a whole lot different in my pickup than in my sports car just because the car was built for speed and curves. Same speed, same road, same driver, different vehicle.

I was actually a bit surprised HWY1 from Hope to Boston Bar had the speed increased. I have driven that route a LOT and overall it tends to be a windy road with no center median between directions of travel. I actually found myself often driving the previous speed limit even with the highest speed postings simply because it didn't feel safe at those levels when I was driving my big F250 pickup. You also tend to see a lot of heavier vehicles traversing that route aka big rigs, pickups, vans, etc. They handle curves and speed far different. Less stopping distance, less room for error.

You throw in wildlife, massive big-rigs trying to do the speed limit, and some weather, and I can see crashes going up.

But someone can't simply conclude from that stretch of road that speed causes crashes EVERYWHERE which is the leap people make. Speed is proven in this 5 block area to be a contributor to higher crashes therefor speed contributes to crashes EVERYWHERE is just false logic.

Honestly I am more in favor of increasing the use of variable speed limits.

For example HWY 1 from Vancouver to Abbotsford. During the day I think 90kph is probably fine, maybe 100kph. But at 8pm at night you could easily do 120kph and be plenty safe. I think that is far better to allow for adjusting the speed limit in many areas based on conditions.

Same deal in the interior, people are dumb, so you start getting icy conditions or light snow fall and the speed limits on those stretches drop to indicate the change in conditions. People _should_ do that automatically but they don't.

That said again I'd be cautious about just reading statistics and jumping to conclusions given those stats don't include contributing factors or actual facts associated.

[go_leafs_go02]

It makes no sense that they would be putting variable speed limits on Highway 1 from Abbotsford to Hope before they'd do it from North Vancouver to Abbotsford.

The portion through Langley is notorious for congestion, collisions, and delays. They have plans to widen it in the next 10 years, but still, something like this probably would help better.

[DKaz]

Has the variable limits through downtown Seattle been proven to reduce congestion?

[Klazu]

If you have ever wondered if they are really changing those variable speed limits based on the weather, here is a really good timelapse from last 24 hours up on Coquihalla where the speed limits changes two dozen times between 60 - 100 km/h. Nice to see them incrementing the limits quickly up and down depending on conditions.

https://images.drivebc.ca/ReplayTheD...r.html?cam=734

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If you have ever wondered if they are really changing those variable speed limits based on the weather, here is a really good timelapse from last 24 hours up on Coquihalla where the speed limits changes two dozen times between 60 - 100 km/h. Nice to see them incrementing the limits quickly up and down depending on conditions.

That almost makes me wonder if they're somehow sensing conditions like visibility, temperature and road surfaces and automating the speed limit updates...

[Dengler Avenue]

I love how it never goes above 100 km/h. Really, “Set the speed limit at 100 km/h and expect people to get 120 km/h”, eh?

[misher]

Originally Posted by Klazu

If you have ever wondered if they are really changing those variable speed limits based on the weather, here is a really good timelapse from last 24 hours up on Coquihalla where the speed limits changes two dozen times between 60 - 100 km/h. Nice to see them incrementing the limits quickly up and down depending on conditions.

https://images.drivebc.ca/ReplayTheD...r.html?cam=734

I’ve always felt that speed limits should be based on good weather because right now everyone goes way over them. Speed limits currently are dumb.

I think some of this is that were basing limits on poor weather and an older vehicle while tech had improved a lot so the newer cars can go 120-140 on straightaways comfortably.

Variable would be appreciated if it’s easy to implement. If not we should teach people to property judge what speed they should be at rather than rely on the limit sign.

[Dengler Avenue]

Remember that catchy phrase, "See snow, go slow"?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by misher

I think some of this is that were basing limits on poor weather and an older vehicle while tech had improved a lot so the newer cars can go 120-140 on straightaways comfortably.

Variable would be appreciated if it’s easy to implement. If not we should teach people to property judge what speed they should be at rather than rely on the limit sign.

Speed limits were lowered because, although the cars may be capable of higher speeds, drivers aren't. Unfortunately, people can never be trusted to judge their own ability, therefore you need things like speed limits to protect them from themselves. And even that won't protect the dumbest ones.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by misher

I’ve always felt that speed limits should be based on good weather because right now everyone goes way over them. Speed limits currently are dumb.

I think some of this is that were basing limits on poor weather and an older vehicle while tech had improved a lot so the newer cars can go 120-140 on straightaways comfortably.

Variable would be appreciated if it’s easy to implement. If not we should teach people to property judge what speed they should be at rather than rely on the limit sign.

Problem is, variable is NOT easy to implement. You're talking about replacing every speed limit sign in BC with a new min-max value, and you're counting on every driver to quickly read and understand it while moving at 60+ kph.

Not to mention the new near-impossibility of enforcing the new standard - too much wiggle room. You can already hear the excuses in court ("it wasn't that rainy, Your Honour, I've got the forecast to prove it!").