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  #181  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2008, 9:29 PM
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^ I'll second that.
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  #182  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2008, 11:42 PM
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Third it, heck yes. (Despite his limp position on the CRC.)
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  #183  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 5:36 PM
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The city's transportation dept web site has an online survey around additional routes in NW Portland. The three routes they're proposing (only one would be built) look like this:







Personally, I like #2 the best.
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  #184  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2008, 6:06 PM
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There is also an online survey for Northeast here. For suggestions check out my previous post on the options and my preferences.
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  #185  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 1:09 AM
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Proposed Street Car Routes

08/05/08
By Lee Perlman
Southeast Examiner


A citizen working group, one of five commissioned by the city, gave southeast Portland the most extensive and detailed plans for future potential streetcar routes. Under the direction of the Portland Office of Transportation and commissioner (and Mayor-elect) Sam Adams’ office, the Streetcar System Plan is seeking to create a network of future streetcar routes. As part of the process, they held a series of open houses in the spring, at which they sought volunteers to propose possible routes. The southeast session had the highest and most enthusiastic turnout, with 80 people in attendance, and produced the largest working group. Under the direction of Ladd’s Addition community activist and transportation planner Richard Ross, the group analyzed the pros and cons of 10 potential routes. In contrast, the North Portland Working Group studied only one route, along North Lombard Street. Ross presented the analysis to a late June meeting of the Streetcar Systems Steering Committee, a volunteer group overseeing the process. The criteria for potential routes include potential ridership, potential for high-intensity development the streetcar is intended to encourage on adjacent properties, whether high traffic speed or volume on the proposed route represents a safety hazard or operational conflict, whether it makes sense as part of an overall mass transit system, and whether there is community support for such a streetcar route.

Here are their analyses:
Sandy Boulevard The “pros” for this route were that the street is wide with a wide right of way; it is a radial route stretching from the inner city to the outskirts; adjacent properties have a high development potential; it goes through the Hollywood Town Center where it offers connections to the MAX light rail blue and red lines. “Cons” were that the line could interfere with high traffic and freight movement, and the eastern portion has recently gone through reconstruction as part of the Sandy Streetscape Plan.
Burnside/28th/Glisan The arguments for this are that East Burnside Streets is a wide street; it passes by many small businesses that could benefit from its presence; there is ongoing redevelopment along the route; it goes by the pending Burnside Bridgehead mega-development site and the developing Providence Medical Center campus. The arguments against are that the streetcar could interfere with traffic on narrow, heavily-traveled NE 28th Ave.; it travels through Laurelhurst where there is low density that is likely to remain; and it’s close to existing MAX service.
Burnside/Stark/Washington The pros: SE Stark and Washington streets are a couplet that lend themselves to this operation; there is good redevelopment potential for part of the route; it connects to the MAX blue line and comes within five blocks of the green line now under construction; it connects such destinations as Mall 205, the Montavilla business area and Mt. Tabor Park. The cons: it is somewhat duplicative of Burnside/28th/Glisan and, once again, it goes through Laurelhurst.
82nd Avenue The pro arguments are: it provides a needed north-south connection; it fits the Avenue of Roses redevelopment plan; there is already high transit ridership on the #72 bus; much of the adjacent property is under-utilized and there has been recent Asian-themed redevelopment; it could be a catalyst to improve a poor pedestrian environment; it serves the Portland Community College Campus. Cons: this is a state highway where construction would involve dealing with multiple jurisdictions; it parallels the Green Line; and because it is on the border of some neighborhoods community support is uncertain.
Belmont This route seems to work in terms of operations. It is an historic streetcar route; part of it is a couplet; the lanes are wide; traffic speeds are consistent with a streetcar and it is not a freight route; it has high bus ridership and high residential and commercial density. The cons are: it dead- ends at Mount Tabor, and reversing direction on the east end might be technically difficult.
Hawthorne/50th This too, is an historic streetcar route; bus ridership that is near capacity; a high concentration of businesses; relatively high residential density with much more planned. On the other hand, lanes are narrow and businesses are complaining of “development fatigue.”
Powell This has a high bus ridership; a wide right of way and would connect well to a Hawthorne route. However, it is designed as an auto boulevard, it has heavy, high-speed traffic it is a freight corridor; it is a state highway and it has low residential density.
Foster This diagonal route could connect to many neighborhoods as well as the MAX green line and the Springwater Corridor; it has a wide right of way; a “huge” development potential; and many residents along the route would welcome something that would slow or “calm” traffic. The cons: it carries regional traffic; it is potentially a future MAX route; and west of 82nd, it is a flood plain with limited development potential.
Woodstock This is yet another historic streetcar route, and serves Reed College. On the minus side, it has low ridership, and does not connect to much on its east end.
Milwaukie-Tacoma This offers an historic streetcar pattern; high density development underway and potential for infill; potential connections to the Springwater Trail; a future Milwaukie light rail route; an extension across the west side via a new Sellwood Bridge, plus strong neighborhood support. The principal con is the route traverses narrow streets in places. The report included this: “Will the Sellwood Bridge fall into the river?”

The Working Group said community support was high for the Belmont, Foster, Woodstock and Milwaukie-Tacoma routes, and low for Powell. Hawthorne had strong support, but also a “vocal minority of very negative responses.” They expected strong “pushback from businesses along 82nd, and found such along lower Sandy, where a large number of businesses are auto- oriented.
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  #186  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 5:10 AM
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Why does Belmont have to stop at Tabor? There is no reason it can't jog south to Division and then connect to PCC at 82nd. Belmont & PCC would be my first option.
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  #187  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 4:02 PM
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Streetcar engineers given a green light

Portland City Council lends $6.3 million in local funds for final design of east-side loop

POSTED: 04:00 AM PDT Thursday, August 21, 2008
BY LIBBY TUCKER, DJC


With federal financing still uncertain, Portland City Council agreed on Wednesday to spend local tax dollars to begin final engineering on the Eastside Streetcar Loop.

Commissioners approved $6.3 million for project management and design and civil engineering services on the $147 million project to build a new 3.3-mile streetcar route across the Broadway Bridge and south to the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry.

Final design has already been delayed two months while the city waits for approval of its $75 million request for Federal Transportation Administration small starts funds. In the meantime, each month of delay costs the city $500,000 due to construction contingency requirements that rise continually with inflation, according to the Portland Office of Transportation.

“I have confidence our congressional delegation and Commissioner Adams have worked hard (to secure funding) … this is a risk well worth taking,” said City Commissioner Dan Saltzman.

In June, an FTA analysis of the project’s cost effectiveness found it didn’t meet the agency’s funding requirements. Oregon congressional delegates are attempting to bypass the FTA process, however, and have achieved some success. The project was earmarked for $50 million in the President’s proposed 2009 budget as well as the Senate Appropriations Committee budget.

The city is now waiting for approval from the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee, which isn’t expected to release its 2009 budget until after the November election. Congress might also delay presenting the 2009 federal budget bill until next February or March, according to the city.

“The feds just really haven’t been supporting work around the country so there’s a pretty significant slowdown,” said Mark Dorn, a senior project manager with URS Corp., the engineering firm overseeing the project. “We’re hoping a new administration will pump money into transit.”

To prevent additional expenses due to the delay, City Council will pony up the money for final engineering in the hope that it will be recouped when Congress eventually approves federal funds for the project.

Under FTA regulations, any local funds spent on the project will count toward the federal matching funds requirement, said Vicky Diede, a project manager with the Portland Office of Transportation.

In all, the city will spend a total of $10 million in local funding to finance the conceptual and final engineering stages of the project. About $8.9 million of the total budget will come from the Portland Development Commission’s urban renewal area funds. Metro’s metropolitan transportation improvement project funds will cover the remaining $1.1 million.

Once final engineering is mostly complete early next year, the city will hire a construction manager/general contractor. Work on the new route is scheduled to begin next June, pending the approval of federal funding.

“Congressional delegates have stepped up and I have strong conviction this will be funded,” said Michael Powell, a board member of Portland Streetcar Inc. The city, he said, “will break the dam the FTA has put up to block streetcar projects.”
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  #188  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 4:51 PM
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Woodstock, please.

It's one of the places I'm considering retiring to. Get a good job and start paying for a house, renting it out until... well, you guys don't care haha.
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  #189  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 6:00 PM
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  #190  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 6:07 PM
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Is there a way to get down that large bluff past Reed to get to the Milwaukie MAX from Woodstock? I can't think of any

I biffed on Steele a few times coming down that hill behind the Winston apartments and I've whacked into things a few times... very steep.

Or I suck at riding bikes. One of the two.



EDIT: Looking at maps, it seems that there isn't a way around that area and so a streetcar probably can't get up and down over there.
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  #191  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2008, 10:25 PM
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I am so hoping we end up with an extensive streetcar system while Adams is in office.
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  #192  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 2:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJD View Post

Streetcar engineers given a green light


...
“We’re hoping a new administration will pump money into transit.”
...
One more reason to hope the new administration doesn't involve John McCain. Here's an interesting/troubling article from Light Rail Now about John McCain's anti-rail...ness...

http://www.lightrailnow.org/news/n_n...m#USA_20080711
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  #193  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 4:54 AM
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that man is worse than bush
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  #194  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2008, 8:21 PM
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Let's hope his administration doesn't think of transit as the "rail to nowhere"...
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  #195  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 5:28 PM
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After slugging through reams of threads in the Texas/Southcentral forum, I've had to stop and question what the animosity towards streetcars from non-residents stems from. Is it jealousy? Is it near-sightedness? I can't tell.

As far as I have seen and believe, the Streetcar is better than a bus and if you can afford it, absolutely worth it for local service. Am I wrong in my approach to the arguments? I don't know anymore. I think the attitude that would throw the baby out with the bathwater on streetcars is the very same that drives people like McCain to demand supernatural results from all rail.
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  #196  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 9:36 PM
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The issue most people have is that a bus can run more frequently, is faster, is easier to change in case of future development, and can be updated easier.

Light rail is not the same thing as a streetcar and visa versa. A lot of people who support light rail don't support a streetcar.
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  #197  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 9:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanL View Post
The issue most people have is that a bus can run more frequently, is faster, is easier to change in case of future development, and can be updated easier.

Light rail is not the same thing as a streetcar and visa versa. A lot of people who support light rail don't support a streetcar.
Hasn't the Pearl District basically proved a lot of people wrong? Or are people still toting that same old saw of "it's public subsidy that drove development"?

And can you give me detailed stats on those "lot[s] of people"? Still finding it hard to believe that so many people think buses are magic.
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  #198  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by alexjon View Post
Hasn't the Pearl District basically proved a lot of people wrong? Or are people still toting that same old saw of "it's public subsidy that drove development"?

And can you give me detailed stats on those "lot[s] of people"? Still finding it hard to believe that so many people think buses are magic.
Well for the first point, the Pearl was heavy into development and investment long before the streetcar was going anywhere, and a lot of Pearl development has been outside of the streetcar corridor.

But to your second point... I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Busses move more people, and they move them faster as well. Busses are changeable and ungradeable while streetcar... not so much.

Those are not opinions, those are facts upon which the opinions that a streetcar is a waste of money are based.

I would prefer they expand the busses and then invest in a Powell Blvd MAX line, instead of spending money on a streetcar that will cost well over $10,000 per passenger the year if finally gets completed.
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  #199  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JordanL View Post
The issue most people have is that a bus can run more frequently, is faster, is easier to change in case of future development, and can be updated easier.
OK, I can perhaps see the argument that buses allow more flexibility, but the claim that buses are faster and can run more frequently than streetcars sounds spurious to me. Please explain why you think buses are faster and can run more frequently when they are subject to many of the same limitations as a streetcar (driving in traffic on city streets, frequent stops, missing traffic lights because of stops). As someone who's ridden buses here, I can tell you they're not very fast when driving through heavily-populated areas.
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  #200  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2008, 10:37 PM
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Well for the first point, the Pearl was heavy into development and investment long before the streetcar was going anywhere, and a lot of Pearl development has been outside of the streetcar corridor.

But to your second point... I'm not sure what you're trying to argue. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. Busses move more people, and they move them faster as well. Busses are changeable and ungradeable while streetcar... not so much.

Those are not opinions, those are facts upon which the opinions that a streetcar is a waste of money are based.

I would prefer they expand the busses and then invest in a Powell Blvd MAX line, instead of spending money on a streetcar that will cost well over $10,000 per passenger the year if finally gets completed.
Why not put in BRT instead of a Powell Blvd MAX? It's cheaper and with true dedicated lanes can be just as fast, especially considering how short blocks are in Portland.
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