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View Poll Results: Is SEPTA doing a great job in regards to bus, subway, and commuter rail overall??????
YES 38 49.35%
NO 39 50.65%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1461  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:48 PM
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Something I posted on reddit last year thought Id share..

Part 1 - Urban & Urbanized Suburban Rail

Quote:
Delaware Valley Regional Transit Authority , My Transit Vision for the Region

My Transit Vision for the Delaware River Valley , the merging of SEPTA , PATCO and the Southern New Jersey Transit Divisions into a New Agency called DVRTA or Delaware Valley Regional Transit Authority. I’m not a fan of the way SEPTA is so poorly run at least on the higher up level , the employees the most part aren’t the problem in my opinion. Seeing how they are the only system that has not expanded in the last 20 years beyond a few small restorations compared to other neighboring agencies. Its very painful to see all the abandoned trackage or trackage that is used for rail trails while the highways in the region increasingly clog with congestion. The South Jersey Rail network is in a similar state as Trenton ignores its potential , and has not advanced any of the RiverLINE extensions which would greatly boost ridership.

It has taken me over 6 years to slowly build out and tweak this map which I consider the Rough draft for the final version that will be created with Adobe Illustrator or Affinity Designer and posted in PDF format. In about a year or so. I’m no stranger to the Philly Region or South Jersey have ridden just about every Rail line with the exception of Routes 10, 11, 13, 34, and 36 , Broad Street Spur , Doylestown Branch , Warminster Branch , Newark/Wilmington , and Cynwyd Line which I hope to all Ride on by next Summer. I've taken over 2600 photos across Philadelphia , Southeastern Pennsylvania and South Jersey.

The Map

Click the links below to scroll through them

SEPTA – 356 Photos : Philadelphia – 800 Photos : Pennsylvania – 1024 Photos : New Jersey - 3,204 Photos : PATCO High Speed Line – 22 Photos : RiverLINE – 80 Photos : Atlantic City Line – 15 Photos

Financing the system and the expansions

Given the looming funding crisis about to happen to SEPTA in 2023 I would implement a Congestion pricing zone from Washington Ave to Girard charging up 10$ during rush hour and 5$ off peak. Local Deliveries would be exempt which should reduce the burden on local businesses. I would also lease air rights above the Powelton , Overbrook ,and any Depressed section of Septa trackage for high density mixed use Redevelopment which how a few systems in Asia fund themselves. I would create a mini underground shopping space in the super concourse at Walnut–Locust station similar to the Turnstyle hipster mall at the 59th Street-Columbus Circle station in Midtown Manhattan.

Reducing Costs , Adding Service , New Signals , Misc

To reduce the costs while expanding the system I would Fully automate the Patco High Speed Line , Norristown High Speed Line , Broad Street Subway and Market-Frankford EL which would allow for the doubling of service off peak , weekends and holidays without increasing operational costs. Platform Screen doors would be installed at every station to prevent debris and people from falling onto the tracks and causing delays. Train service would run every 2 mins on the MFL , Every 5mins for a Broad Street Local and every 10mins for an Express and Norristown HSL service.

To Reduce the overcrowding on the MFL I would purchase Open Gangway train sets which are standard on Metro Systems outside the US and are the cheapest way to increase capacity in the short term without adding more service. Some of the Newer Open Gangway trains have passenger load sensors that relay the information to monitors on the station platforms. Each Station would have countdown clocks and Delay information on overhead monitors along with Climate controlled stations along the MFL at all Center City Stations which is one of the benefits of having Platform screen doors.

New Super Trolleys would operate on the Subway-Surface division similar to these used in Toronto with extra articulating sections to deal with the tight tunnel curves. Restored routes such as the 23, 45 ,50 ,56 , or the in service Route 15 would use new low floor Streetcars such as these used in Milwaukee , Seattle , or DC better suited high usage routes with more street congestion.

I would Switch out the regular turnstiles for chest high swing doors for the Regional Rail at University City , 30th Street Station , Suburban Station , Market East Station and Temple University. Along with installing high level platforms at every Suburban Station which would for high capacity train sets to be purchased and lower dwell times at each stations.

To combat Fare evasion I propose installing platform screen doors and chest high swing door fare gates along the RiverLINE and all of the proposed LRT lines. This method is common place on newer systems in Latin America and Asia.

City of Philadelphia

Subway Expansions


-Roosevelt Boulevard Subway : 13 miles – 11 Stations , Connection to MFL Extension at Bustleton & Roosevelt

-Germantown Subway : 2 miles – 4 Stations , Connections to Suburban Rail at Wayne JCT and Route 23 Trolley

-Northwest & South Subway Extension : 14 miles – 24 Stations , Connections to Suburban Rail at Manayunk and Wissahickon , Cross City Trolley at York Street - Strawberry Mansion , Route 15 Trolley at Ridge & Girard Ave , Broad Street Subway at Fairmount Avenue , PATCO , MFL at 8th & Market , Broad Street Subway at Broad & Washington , South Philly LRT at Grays Ferry , Route 11 & 36 Trolley at South 49th street , Route 36 Trolley and Suburban Rail at Eastwick Transportation Center , , Broad Street Subway and Suburban Rail at Philadelphia Airport

-PATCO West Extension : 7 miles – 13 Stations , Connections to MFL at 34th Street - University JCT , Route 15 Trolley at Girard Avenue, Route 10 Trolley and Suburban Services at 52nd Street , City Ave LRT at Bala

-Airport BSL Extension : 5 miles – 3 Stations , Connections to Naval Yard Trolley at Naval Yard , Southwest Subway and Suburban Rail at Philadelphia Airport

Service Patterns

-Broad Street Local – Fern Rock to PHL Airport

-Broad Street Express – Fern Rock to Walnut–Locust

-Germantown Branch - Chelten Ave to Local to PHL Airport

-Germantown Branch – Chelten Ave to PHL Airport via Broad Street Express / Local South Philly

-Roosevelt Boulevard Subway - Turnpike Park & Ride Local to Hunting Park , Express to Walnut-Locust

-Northwest/South Subway – Manayunk – PHL Airport


Trolley / Streetcar / Light Rail Restorations and Expansions

-Route 15 Extension to Frankford Terminal

-Route 23 Trolley Restoration

-Route 60 Trolley Restoration

-Route 56 Trolley Restoration

-Route 45 Trolley Restorations

-North Philly CrossCity Trolley (Fishtown to Wynnefield Heights via the Strawberry-Mansion Bridge)

-City Avenue Light Rail (69th Street Terminal to Wissahickon Transportation Center)

-City Branch Light Rail Tunnel , allowing for express Route 15 Trolleys and Waterfront Trolley service from West Philly

-East Trolley (Fishtown / Old City to Oregon Ave)


-Passyunk Trolley (Elmwood to Whitman) South Philly LRT to Center City Via the Subway-Surface Tunnel and the lightly used Conrail viaduct in South Philly connecting to the Glassboro/Millville Line via a Tunnel under the Delaware

Historic Trolleys , using restored streetcars similar to Muni Routes E&F in San Francisco

-Historic Trolley Route Route G : Chestnut Hill to Wayne Junction Station

-Historic Trolley Route Route C : Girard Ave to Oregon Ave


Philly Suburbs

Light Rail Expansions


-Restoration of Trolley Route 103 to Ardmore from 69th Street Terminal

-Restoration of Trolley Route 104 to Newtown Square from 69th street Terminal

-Norristown High Speed Line to KOP


South Jersey

Subway expansion


-Maple Shade PATCO Extension : 6 miles – 8 stations
, Connections to Suburban Rail service at Maple Shade , Suburban Rail Service at Merchantville

Light Rail / Interurban Expansion , using low floor DMUs similar to these

-West Trenton RiverLine Extension : 5 miles – 7 Stations , Connections to Suburban Rail Service , Amtrak at Trenton Transit Center and Suburban Rail Service at West Trenton

-Penns Grove LRT : 20 miles – 5 Stations , Connections to South Philly LRT and Glassboro/Vineland Line at Woodbury

-South Philly LRT , continues along the Glassboro/Vineland Line to Glassboro in Battery or Hydrogen Mode on the NJ side.

Glassboro/Vineland Line : 57 miles – 17 Stations , Connections to Suburban Rail Service at Vineland Transportation Center , South Philly LRT at Glassboro , Penns Grove LRT at Woodbury
So what do you think?
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  #1462  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2019, 7:50 PM
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Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
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Part 2 - Regional & Intercity Rail

My Original Post was too long so I split it into 2 parts. The First Part addressed the Combining SEPTA , PATCO , and the southern NJT divisions into One New Agency and the Restoring and expanding the Urban Rail. Part 2 addresses the Regional and semi Intercity Rail restorations and expansions along with bringing back the R system.

The Map

Quote:
The New R System Service patterns

Suburban Rail – Fully Electrified S-bahn system aka the R system with addition Express service , Bi-Directional service levels


Suburban Rail Division

South Jersey Division R1:


-Mount Holly Line → to Chestnut Hill East 2x trains per hr

-Atco (Atlantic City Line) → to Fox Chase – 1x per hr and Glenside 1x per hr

-Shore Service Gateway (Suburban Station , 30th Street station , Express to Lindenwold then to Rio Grande and Cape May – 2x per day Friday - Sunday

-30th Street Station to Atlantic City every 60mins peak and every 2hrs offpeak

-30th Street Station to Bridgeton every 60mins peak and every 2hrs offpeak


Western Region Division R2:

-Kennett Square Line → to Warminster – 1x per hr and Chestnut Hill East – 1x per hr

-West Chester / Media Line → to Fox Chase – 1x per hr and Lansdale – 1x per hr

-Rising Sun / Kennett Square Line → Suburban Station every 45 mins during rush hour with express service after Media

-Newark/Wilmington Line → Newtown – 1x per hr

-Delaware Express , Newark local to Marcus Hook , Express to University City , all Center City stations to Wayne JCT , Bi-directional rush hour express


Penn Main Line Division R3:

-Coatesville / Paoli Line → to Norristown Elm Street – 1x per hr and Jenkintown – 1x per hr

-Great Valley Flyer , (Rush hour) Express to Paoli , Local to Coatesville , peak direction every 30mins , from/to Market East Station

-Cross Regional Connector (Exton to Trenton) – Every 30mins during rush hour and every 2hrs off peak

Northern Reading Division R4 :

-Reading / Norristown Line → to 30th Street Station – 1x per hr and PHL Airport – 1xper hr

-Phoenixville → to Paoli – 1x per hr

-Pottsville to Reading – Every 2hrs , with direct Express Rush hour service to 30th Street Station – 2x a day peak direction

-Reading Rocket Express , From 30th Street Station (all CC Stations) , Express to Norristown , Phoenixville and Express to Reading – 2x a day peak direction


Lehigh Division R5 :

-Allentown/Lansdale Line → to Suburban Station via the Fort Washington Branch / Chestnut Hill West line – 1x per hr

-Allentown/Lansdale Line → to PHL Airport via Main Line – 1x per hr

-Quakertown → to 30th Street Station via Stony Creek Branch – 1x per hr

-Doylestown Branch → Marcus Hook via Stony Creek Branch – 1x per hr

-Doylestown Branch → to Merchantville – 1x per hr

-Lehigh Express ( Rush hour) from 30th street Station (all CC Stations) , Express to Jenkintown → Lansdale → Quakertown → Bethlehem and Allentown

-Jim Thorpe Gateway (Weekends) , From University City with limited stops to Allentown and local to Jim Thorpe


Eastern Division R6:

-Newtown/Fox Chase Line → PHL Airport – 1x per hr

-West Trenton line → Wilmington – 1x per hr

-Bustleton Branch (West Trenton) → to 30th Street Station – 1x per hour

-Warminster Branch to Trenton – 1x per hour

-Trenton Line → Glenside 1x per hr

-Trenton Line Local to Holmesburg JCT Express to 30th Street Station , Local to Norristown Elm Street – every 2hrs during rush hour

-New Hope to Jenkintown – every 2hrs , with direct Rush hour service to 30th Street Station -New Hope Gateway (Weekends) , From University City (all CC stations) Express to Jenkintown then Express to New Hope
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  #1463  
Old Posted Jul 18, 2019, 10:44 PM
Qubert Qubert is offline
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The only areas within Philly that really justify subway service in a big way are:

-Roosevelt Blvd corridor

-Woodland Ave

Even Germantown Ave is alright the way it is. Make the CHE and CHW lines part of the city transpass zone and bump frequencies to 15 mins all day every day (except nights)
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  #1464  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2019, 2:51 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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^^^ Yes please. The Chestnut Hill trolley would be nice to bring back just as a historical line, but improving the headways for CHE and West should be a priority. The neighborhoods along the lines are already densely populated and I think I remember seeing the latest stats were showing growth on top of that.

In terms of a new line, the blvd probably makes the most sense (coupled with an extension to the Navy Yard)

https://whyy.org/articles/septas-sol...evere-weather/

Quote:
Sometime in the next year, commuters can expect to see solar panels on the rail signals along the Warminster, Doylestown, and West Trenton Regional Rail lines. Train engineers rely on the signals to provide real-time route information but in severe weather, they often lose power. The knockouts can cause delays, train cancellations and even accidents.

But with the new solar technology, train engineers should be able to keep the rails running safely when the main energy grid goes down.
Quote:
The SEPTA board also approved a plan to retrofit the agency headquarters at 1234 Market Street and purchase power from two solar farms in Pennsylvania.

SEPTA will be the sole recipient of energy coming from the two solar farms in Franklin County under an agreement with Lightsource BP, the San Francisco company that will build and operate them.

The company, which is affiliated with the global energy giant BP, was one of 19 companies to compete for the contract to supply SEPTA with solar power, according to SEPTA. The farms, which are expected to start operating in 2021, will supply 150 jobs.

Unfortunately for Philadelphians looking for work in the growing solar industry, Lightsource BP is building the farms about 163 miles away from the city.
Interesting idea with the signals; I wonder what the result will be in practice, if it ends up improving the system performance at all. Too bad the farm couldn't have been in Philly though; we'll be getting a large volume of unusable industrial wasteland coming available once the PES refinery shuts down.
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  #1465  
Old Posted Aug 1, 2019, 1:00 AM
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SEPTA Maintenance Facilities under investigation for Embezzlement

Quote:
The FBI and SEPTA’s inspector general are investigating a multi-year embezzlement scheme that may have cost the agency big bucks, PlanPhilly has learned.

Fran Kelly, SEPTA’s assistant general manager, said the agency “cannot confirm or deny that there’s any ongoing investigation.”

But sources said that FBI agents had visited the agency’s Woodland Avenue building earlier this month. And other sources described the nature of the investigation to PlanPhilly.

The scheme allegedly involved a string of the transit agency’s facility managers who colluded with outside vendors to fabricate fraudulent supply and repair invoices. The invoices were paid, using SEPTA office credit cards, but the requested services or merchandise were never fulfilled.

Managers and vendors are said to have are said to have pocketed the leftover proceeds. In other instances, unneeded tools or equipment were ordered and then allegedly stolen by the involved parties.

Douglas Edwards, a secretary-treasurer with the Teamsters Local 500, which represents certain SEPTA employees, said he had heard rumors about the investigation. He emphasized that federal agents haven’t contacted any Local 500 members.

“But there are a lot of rumors if there isn’t anything going on,” he said.

Joe Coccio, secretary-treasurer with the Transit Workers Union Local 234, which represents most of SEPTA’s drivers and other blue-collar employees, also said he had heard “rumors” of the investigation. He similarly said the inquest did not involve any Local 234 members.

“Since none of the people involved or implicated are our members, at this time we don’t have any more information,” Coccio said.

It is not immediately clear how much money or equipment the alleged embezzlement could cost the agency, which has an $1.49 billion operating budget and a $675 million capital budget.
http://planphilly.com/articles/2019/...medium=ios_app
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  #1466  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2019, 1:22 AM
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Kneuppel to leave SEPTA at the end of the year
Quote:
General manager Jeff Knueppel is leaving the nation’s sixth-largest transit agency at the end of the year, SEPTA announced Wednesday. His successor will be selected by SEPTA’s board, and a leading candidate is Leslie S. Richards, the state’s transportation secretary, said sources with knowledge of the selection process. Richards is from Whitemarsh and served on SEPTA’s board. She did not return a request for comment.
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  #1467  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 7:20 PM
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The good news: the Wawa extension is pushing forward and is expected to start construction by the end of the year.

The bad news: it’s no longer called Wawa Station. It’s now “Middletown.”
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  #1468  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2019, 11:24 PM
Delthayre Delthayre is offline
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Change, my dear, and not a moment too soon. Pretty late, really.

Well, perhaps SEPTA will be able to arrange a naming rights agreement with the convenience store chain. It might be the first known case of that sort of thing making the station name more appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgrath618 View Post
Kneuppel to leave SEPTA at the end of the year
SEPTA is at the cusp of the nearest thing to a 'transformational' moment as it's had in a while, albeit one that will be inevitably muted in whatever effect it might have by the institutional inertia of the organization.

If Mr. Knueppel is replaced by Leslie Richards as General Manager, it will be a significant shift in the kind of person administering the authority. (This seems likely; given how SEPTA's board operates, I doubt that even the suggestion wouldn't've been let out unless it had largely been settled; the recent disappearance of Executive Deputy Secretary Leo Bagley and Deputy Secretary for Administration Suzanne Itzko from the PennWatch listings suggests that PennDoT is preparing for regime change, thus hinting that Leslie Richards will soon enough leave her office) What's more, there is a chance that some of the suburban counties will elect Democratic governments in this year's local elections, creating the possibility of Pasquale T. Deon hisself being replaced with a Democratic Chairman of the Board. This could be further augmented if any of the longer-serving senior managers, such as Treasurer Richard Burnfield, retire in the near future.

One shouldn't ever get one's hopes up for change in a large, established bureaucracy, but things might get a little better, or at least different.
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  #1469  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 1:02 AM
dreadnought dreadnought is offline
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I haven't heard any news lately on the Broad Street Subway line extension to the Navy Yard. Anyone heard anything?
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  #1470  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2019, 1:27 AM
Delthayre Delthayre is offline
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A. Merritt Taylor and William S. Twining finally thwarted

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadnought View Post
I haven't heard any news lately on the Broad Street Subway line extension to the Navy Yard. Anyone heard anything?
I don't think that there has been any news, but I noticed a little while ago that the feasibility study is available. Ridership projections are unimpressive, the estimated costs are nearly a billion dollars per mile and §7 of the study determines that it would be a dubious candidate for federal funding, so the 'prognosis' for that extension is poor.
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  #1471  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2019, 2:20 PM
dreadnought dreadnought is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delthayre View Post
I don't think that there has been any news, but I noticed a little while ago that the feasibility study is available. Ridership projections are unimpressive, the estimated costs are nearly a billion dollars per mile and §7 of the study determines that it would be a dubious candidate for federal funding, so the 'prognosis' for that extension is poor.
Thanks for the link. I haven't read all 259 pages, but in the executive summary, it states that the project as currently envisioned, based on the 2013 Navy Yard master plan, would not receive the minimum rating to qualify for federal money. However that master plan was done conservatively, assuming low density and no subway extension. If they update it, they could receive a higher rating and be a better candidate. The Navy Yard is already achieving higher density than initially anticipated.
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  #1472  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2019, 2:42 PM
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I hope when Septa finally does get new modern trolleys they can take their cues from the Pöstlingbergbahn trams in Linz. They are the perfect mix of nostalgic and modern styling IMO and would look really good rolling the streets of Philadelphia:



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  #1473  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2019, 6:49 PM
Skintreesnail Skintreesnail is offline
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^^^ that looks awesome. Would look pretty cool running through West Philly. Kind of like the Toronto streetcar but a bit more retro. Too bad the 23 is never coming back, some sort of trolley would be nice to see in center City at the street level. I've been waiting for news on the trolley replacement though, it's been quiet since the announcement. I guess because of the truckers lawsuit. Hopefully we hear more soon. I wasn't too into the designs that were in the original report, but I was assuming that was just a stand-in.
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  #1474  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2019, 7:01 PM
Delthayre Delthayre is offline
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Just give it another two years... then it'll be worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
...I've been waiting for news on the trolley replacement though, it's been quiet since the announcement. I guess because of the truckers lawsuit. Hopefully we hear more soon. I wasn't too into the designs that were in the original report, but I was assuming that was just a stand-in.
The 3rd District dismissed the appeal of the lawsuit by the Trucker's Union against the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission several weeks ago, so SEPTA's capital funding is secure for the time being, although actually issuing debt and transferring funds might be taking longer to put into order. The relative silence might be because SEPTA's capital budget is oversubscribed even without an immediate funding crisis and there's more interest 'from on high' in extending the Norristown High Speed Line to King of Prussia.
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  #1475  
Old Posted Sep 15, 2019, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubert View Post
The only areas within Philly that really justify subway service in a big way are:

-Roosevelt Blvd corridor

-Woodland Ave

Even Germantown Ave is alright the way it is. Make the CHE and CHW lines part of the city transpass zone and bump frequencies to 15 mins all day every day (except nights)
I disagree I think quite a few corridors can handle a light metro or full metro. SW Philly needs a Subway line as does NE Philly and the extension to Naval Yards is abit of a waste. The Airport would be a better use of money and have higher ridership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail View Post
^^^ Yes please. The Chestnut Hill trolley would be nice to bring back just as a historical line, but improving the headways for CHE and West should be a priority. The neighborhoods along the lines are already densely populated and I think I remember seeing the latest stats were showing growth on top of that.

In terms of a new line, the blvd probably makes the most sense (coupled with an extension to the Navy Yard)

https://whyy.org/articles/septas-sol...evere-weather/





Interesting idea with the signals; I wonder what the result will be in practice, if it ends up improving the system performance at all. Too bad the farm couldn't have been in Philly though; we'll be getting a large volume of unusable industrial wasteland coming available once the PES refinery shuts down.
I think that land is going to be toxic for decades to come so building a Solar Farm on it or some other large manufacturing district would be the best use case scenario although I hear some regional planners are pushing for a clean up and for it to be turned into residential.
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  #1476  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2019, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
I disagree I think quite a few corridors can handle a light metro or full metro. SW Philly needs a Subway line as does NE Philly and the extension to Naval Yards is abit of a waste. The Airport would be a better use of money and have higher ridership.



I think that land is going to be toxic for decades to come so building a Solar Farm on it or some other large manufacturing district would be the best use case scenario although I hear some regional planners are pushing for a clean up and for it to be turned into residential.
I'm not sure if it would be better to add a line branching off of the MFL or the BSL to serve Southwest Philly. But you are correct that SW Philly seems to be pretty much cut off from heavy rail transit.

Planners want to convert that refinery site to residental? Ok... good luck with that...

In other things pertaining to Philly transportation. Are the bi-level cars still expected to be delivered to SEPTA next month? I can't wait to see those rolling along the Paoli-Thorndale line.
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  #1477  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy1983 View Post
I'm not sure if it would be better to add a line branching off of the MFL or the BSL to serve Southwest Philly. But you are correct that SW Philly seems to be pretty much cut off from heavy rail transit.

Planners want to convert that refinery site to residental? Ok... good luck with that...

In other things pertaining to Philly transportation. Are the bi-level cars still expected to be delivered to SEPTA next month? I can't wait to see those rolling along the Paoli-Thorndale line.
The BSL has excess capacity so it would be easier branching off of it. MFL is at capacity. If SEPTA were to restore a few parallel Trolley routes out to 69th Street using the new LRT design then i'm sure you could shift some of the load of the MFL and reduce the need for SW Subway line. I think those Bi-level cars will be lemons and i'm not sure why they even purchased them vs more EMUs.
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  #1478  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 4:19 PM
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How is the MF line at capacity? The line seems basically the same as the Bloor-Danforth line in terms of physical infrastructure (similar train size/length, fully grade separated etc.) yet it has daily ridership of 200k vs 500k for the BD line?

And in Toronto's case, the BD line is considered under capacity by comparison with Yonge.
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  #1479  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 4:58 PM
Delthayre Delthayre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
How is the MF line at capacity? The line seems basically the same as the Bloor-Danforth line in terms of physical infrastructure (similar train size/length, fully grade separated etc.) yet it has daily ridership of 200k vs 500k for the BD line?

And in Toronto's case, the BD line is considered under capacity by comparison with Yonge.
I believe that this is not quite accurate. Per Wikipedia, which I concede is an imperfect source, the T-Series cars used on the Bloor-Danforth line are 75' 5 1/2" long and 10' 3 5/8" wide; I don't know the specific dimensions of the M4 cars used on the Market-Frankford Subway Elevated, but I know that they are about 55' long and narrower than the T-Series cars, so a six-car M4 train is about 330' feet long, which is the constraint of the line's platform lengths, whereas a T-Series train of that length would be 450' long, so the MFSE probably has something like 3/5th of the capacity per train of the Bloor-Danforth Line. Furthermore, Bloor Danforth Line's frequency is 2-3 minutes at peak, where as the MFSE has 4-minute peak headways. A more compete, accurate analysis is beyond me, certainly at the moment, but the situation of the MFSE is probably slightly direr than the comparison might suggest.

The frequency is a relatively obvious, economical candidate for improvement; at its most expensive it would require a new signal system and new cars to replace the unreliable M4s. Nevertheless, the current, but soon to be former, General Manager's preferred and very stupid solution is to expand the platforms by 110' to accommodate 8-car trains, which page 7 of the latest capital budget cites a cost of $ 1.3 billion for, although it would almost certainly end up higher if done and would be massively disruptive at the same time. I sincerely hope that his successor abandons the idea.

Regardless, the smaller cars, shorter platforms and availability of only two tracks makes the MFSE an inferior candidate for any branches compared to the Broad Street Subway, which has 67 1/2" cars, 550' platforms and four tracks from Olney to Walnut-Locust.
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Old Posted Sep 17, 2019, 5:08 PM
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Good point on the car length. I saw they both have six car consists and the cars looked similarly long so i didn't consider there would be a significant difference. I'm also surprised the peak frequency is only 4 minutes. In many cases frequency is limited by the availability of rolling stock, but in this case 4 minutes is the minimum for the signalling system?
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