MLS Season 2012 - Page 13

Acajack · #**241** Posted **May 9, 2012, 8:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

People have been saying that for 30 years though, haven't they? It may have caught on in a couple cities....but it is still generations from being accepted as a legitimate professional alternative in Edm and I would assume calgary and ottawa are very similar.

I agree. There is a hump that soccer in Canada can't seem to get over. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s kids' soccer already had more players than hockey. It's been a couple of generations now that soccer has been the most popular participatory sport for kids in Canada...

This evening, hundreds of thousands of Canadian kids will play soccer on pitches across the country. Then they will all go home and sit down in front of their TVs to watch a couple of American-based teams play hockey for the Stanley Cup.

SHOFEAR · #**242** Posted **May 9, 2012, 9:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I agree. There is a hump that soccer in Canada can't seem to get over. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s kids' soccer already had more players than hockey. It's been a couple of generations now that soccer has been the most popular participatory sport for kids in Canada...

This evening, hundreds of thousands of Canadian kids will play soccer on pitches across the country. Then they will all go home and sit down in front of their TVs to watch a couple of American-based teams play hockey for the Stanley Cup.

Whats hilarious is that despite a very small number of kids playing it, professional lacross is more viable than soccer. It goes to show you that the more of an effort it takes from parents ands kids to participate in sports, the more serious they become about it. Thankfully, I dont see that changing.

CorbeauNoir · #**243** Posted **May 9, 2012, 9:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

People have been saying that for 30 years though, haven't they? It may have caught on in a couple cities....but it is still generations from being accepted as a legitimate professional alternative in Edm and I would assume calgary and ottawa are very similar.

In short, no. The growth of soccer's popularity in North America compared to 30, even 20 years ago has been explosive. Before 1994 even the World Cup wasn't broadcast at all in the States. Now it's a major televised event that gets huge ratings in North America and major broadcasters both in Canada and the US televise MLS and European games on a regular basis. To say nothing about the prevalence of the internet making it easier to follow European leagues than it has ever been and a domestic North American soccer league that has a level of stability that was absent in any previous attempt. You can say it's only caught on in 'a couple' cities but this is after a mere five years of Canada's entry into MLS - had Ottawa's MLS bid been successful that foothold would be even larger than it is now. Even a decade ago that kind of growth would have been unthinkable. To say nothing that these 'couple' of cities encompass a huge chunk of the Canadian population, Calgary and Edmonton be damned.

In short, what makes this time unique is that younger people have access to witnessing high-level talent in a way that simply didn't exist in the past. People like to joke that MLS is where big European players go to peter out the last of their careers, but the presence of players like Henry and Beckham in MLS is HUGELY important for the domestic growth of the sport. And failing that, kids can now easily watch players like Messi or Ronaldo on their iPads or in Sportscentre highlights. There are easily-accessible role models that motivate them to keep with the sport that was not the case in the 70s and 80s.

CorbeauNoir · #**244** Posted **May 9, 2012, 9:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Whats hilarious is that despite a very small number of kids playing it, professional lacross is more viable than soccer. It goes to show you that the more of an effort it takes from parents ands kids to participate in sports, the more serious they become about it. Thankfully, I dont see that changing.

How did you reach this conclusion, exactly? The National Lacrosse League is in a financial mess, averages half the attendance of MLS, gets virtually no televised coverage, and puts so little money into their rosters most players need second jobs to pay their bills.

I get that you're trying to wage some kind of weird culture war here but you could at least try to make your statements SOUND like they're remotely legitimate.

Nite · #**245** Posted **May 9, 2012, 10:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

How did you reach this conclusion, exactly? The National Lacrosse League is in a financial mess, averages half the attendance of MLS, gets virtually no televised coverage, and puts so little money into their rosters most players need second jobs to pay their bills.

I get that you're trying to wage some kind of weird culture war here but you could at least try to make your statements SOUND like they're remotely legitimate.

^^^ I was wondering that as well, MLS teams are worth between 30 to 100 million dollars and most have built their own stadiums and the league has about a dozen million+ dollar players.

isaidso · #**246** Posted **May 9, 2012, 11:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copes

This. Essentially the problem for Canada is that due to the history of athletics in North America, it has long been the standard to have North American Leagues, and not Canadian Leagues / American Leagues. Look at hockey, where four of the original six teams were American. Before big cities were popping up out west, it was the North Eastern States and Ontario/Quebec where it was viable to have leagues.

Now that the population in the states is so much higher than that of Canada, they have come to dominate leagues. The NHL is the only league that really has a reasonable Canadian representation. Instead of developing our own Canadian leagues, we try and develop a team or two to take part in American leagues, which are deemed superior. They're also more expensive, and harder to enter. As stated, if Canada were any other country, it would be reasonable to have our own soccer league. The "Canadian Soccer League" could, feasibly (assuming interest, support, and dollar investment) have a Western and Eastern Conference of six teams a piece:

Western Conference
- Vancouver
- Edmonton
- Calgary
- Saskatoon
- Winnipeg
- Victoria / London / Windsor ...

Eastern Conference
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Quebec City
- Ottawa
- Halifax
- St. John's / Moncton ...

That was with five seconds of thought and very little analysis, and is actually more than the CFL which operates currently at 4 teams per conference (perhaps more viable here) but my point is that in many places in the world, you don't need teams from the states to be valid, you don't need the best players in the world to be valid, and you don't need populations of over 1 million to be valid.

Unfortunately, in Canada, due to our love of hockey and proximity to America, we aren't "many places in the world". We need all those things, and our narrow-mindedness is decreasing the viability of supporting our own national Soccer leagues, as well as other sports. The CFL does alright, why can't a Canadian Soccer League?

Yes, I agree with all that. Thankfully, we developed our own football league a century ago or we'd be in the same situation as we are in baseball and basketball. We have pitifully few Canadian teams in the NHL even with the addition of Winnipeg. Most foreigners are flabbergasted when I tell them that hockey mad Canada only has 7 NHL teams and we haven't had a Canadian champion in 19 years. It's shocking to think that we don't crown a national champion in hockey each year. Football is the only sport in which we do that.

Soccer will go the same way as basketball/baseball in that the league will skim the biggest few markets and leave the rest of the country barren.

agrant · #**247** Posted **May 9, 2012, 11:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999

The MLS is probably on the same level as a top league in a smaller European country like Sweden.

This winter during their training camp, the Montreal Impact beat BK Hacken 1-0, a Swedish team that finished 6th in their top league.

Absolutely, but it's sort of a moot point. MLS is still not anywhere near the same calibre as the "top ten" leagues of the world. This fact certainly plays into people's minds I'm sure. If we had the Messi's and Ronaldo's of the world, we wouldn't be having a discussion on the low popularity of soccer vs other sports.

CorbeauNoir · #**248** Posted **May 9, 2012, 11:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrant

Absolutely, but it's sort of a moot point. MLS is still not anywhere near the same calibre as the "top ten" leagues of the world. This fact certainly plays into people's minds I'm sure. If we had the Messi's and Ronaldo's of the world, we wouldn't be having a discussion on the low popularity of soccer vs other sports.

Which is unfortunate. For some reason I'm in a minority but I'd much rather see a lower-talent league where (almost) all the teams are relatively competitive than one where it's just two or three megateams constantly beating up the rest of the league.

I don't know how La Liga fans can tolerate it, honestly. It just seems like it'd be boring as hell having the results virtually predestined before the season even begins.

ZeDgE · #**249** Posted **May 10, 2012, 12:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is being brought up because they are ranked 21st by FIFA and Canada is ranked 75th.

And because they have been to the World Cup three times to Canada's one time, and that contrary to Canada, they have actually won games and scored goals!

They are also ranked first in their FIFA division above all of the Asian countries and have a really good shot at being part of the next World Cup.

Canada is 9th in CONCACAF, below Haiti. Barring a miracle there is no way Canada will be at the next World Cup in Brazil.

Thats so depressing..

Go Canada!... But hey, we can still send a hockey team to any and every meaningless tournament around the world that no one else cares about.

CorbeauNoir · #**250** Posted **May 10, 2012, 3:10 AM**

Good lord, TFC actually won a game

Denscity · #**251** Posted **May 10, 2012, 4:10 AM**

Go Vancouver!

ZeDgE · #**252** Posted **May 10, 2012, 4:20 AM**

Im so jealous Edmonton actually has a team to field for this.

Denscity · #**253** Posted **May 10, 2012, 4:48 AM**

Vancouver Toronto final.

agrant · #**254** Posted **May 10, 2012, 5:04 AM**

Wow. Lots of players I haven't seen before for the Caps.

Nicko999 · #**255** Posted **May 10, 2012, 7:12 AM**

Wow... worst game I've seen the Impact play... ever!!! Getting scored on while the opponent is playing with 10 players??? For real?

Wahl and Brovsky don't deserve to be in the MLS. Ferrari was probably the only guy that wasn't garbage in that first half.

Acajack · #**256** Posted **May 10, 2012, 1:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SHOFEAR

Whats hilarious is that despite a very small number of kids playing it, professional lacross is more viable than soccer. It goes to show you that the more of an effort it takes from parents ands kids to participate in sports, the more serious they become about it. Thankfully, I dont see that changing.

I tend to agree with others that soccer as a spectator sport has grown by leaps and bounds. The gap I am talking about is between the number of kids playing on the one hand and having a competitive national team on the other. One of the problems could be that kids in much of the country don't have local role models to look up to and emulate, since the sports role models are either a) playing sports other than soccer or b) when the models are soccer players, they are always people from other countries.

Acajack · #**257** Posted **May 10, 2012, 1:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Yes, I agree with all that. Thankfully, we developed our own football league a century ago or we'd be in the same situation as we are in baseball and basketball. We have pitifully few Canadian teams in the NHL even with the addition of Winnipeg. Most foreigners are flabbergasted when I tell them that hockey mad Canada only has 7 NHL teams and we haven't had a Canadian champion in 19 years. It's shocking to think that we don't crown a national champion in hockey each year. Football is the only sport in which we do that.

Soccer will go the same way as basketball/baseball in that the league will skim the biggest few markets and leave the rest of the country barren.

All this is true, but it seems that people's minds are set. There isn't any hope for a change I am afraid. But that doesn't mean I am going to stop seeing this as "abnormal".

Acajack · #**258** Posted **May 10, 2012, 1:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Most foreigners are flabbergasted when I tell them that hockey mad Canada only has 7 NHL teams and we haven't had a Canadian champion in 19 years.

Sweden (same population as Quebec) has a pro hockey league with at least a dozen teams. Finland (half the population of Quebec) has a pro hockey league with at least a dozen teams as well.

Copes · #**259** Posted **May 10, 2012, 1:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999

Wow... worst game I've seen the Impact play... ever!!! Getting scored on while the opponent is playing with 10 players??? For real?

Wahl and Brovsky don't deserve to be in the MLS. Ferrari was probably the only guy that wasn't garbage in that first half.

Flicked back and forth between that game and the hockey game. The Impact did play awfully. I missed the beginning of the game due to being out with friends, and when I heard that a team was playing with ten men, I assumed it was the Impact based on their performance. It took me a few minutes to realize it was actually Toronto who was down the man. Despite this, TFC seemed to be all over them.

Aw well, given Toronto's abysmal year thus far, I suppose they need a little confidence boost?

EastVanMark · #**260** Posted **May 10, 2012, 7:40 PM**

A Canadian soccer league would be a HUGE success.... Oh wait.....[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_League_(1987%E2%80%931992)