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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 5:56 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by clooless View Post
In Winnipeg's case, it's nothing to be especially proud of.
One less eyesore and polluter makes it that much less of a hole, no?

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Originally Posted by clooless View Post
Getting back to Vancouver, I am off the opinion that now is the time to get rid off the Georgia and Dunsmuir Street viaducts. I once came across a book in the Vancouver Public Library that had detailed plans for the freeway system Vancouver was expected to build in the 60s, before public opinion derailed those plans. It was a fascinating read with fold out maps and all sorts of information I had never come across before.
So what other suggestion do you have for bridging the elevation difference between the False Creek Flats and the Downtown Peninsula?
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 9:55 PM
clooless clooless is offline
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One less eyesore and polluter makes it that much less of a hole, no?
Just trading one eyesore for another. Winnipeg could have one of the most engaging and interesting downtowns of any Canadian city, such is the wealth of character buildings. I don't know what exactly is to blame for the decay; poverty, local government mismanagement, lack of private interest or a combination of these factors, but it is there.

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So what other suggestion do you have for bridging the elevation difference between the False Creek Flats and the Downtown Peninsula?
Interesting that you think an elevated freeway is an eyesore but the Georgia Viaduct is OK. The original viaduct was built to cross over a rail yard and wasn't nearly as long as the current viaduct, built in 1971. I only mention it because the area around Main and Prior Streets is in a terrible state of decay, and I think removing the viaducts as part of a beautification and redevelopment project would improve the area significantly.
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 1, 2008, 10:22 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by clooless View Post
Interesting that you think an elevated freeway is an eyesore but the Georgia Viaduct is OK. The original viaduct was built to cross over a rail yard and wasn't nearly as long as the current viaduct, built in 1971. I only mention it because the area around Main and Prior Streets is in a terrible state of decay, and I think removing the viaducts as part of a beautification and redevelopment project would improve the area significantly.
All I've seen surrounding the viaducts are a park, a couple of stadiums, a shopping center with a T&T and a Costco, and some open undeveloped land next to False Creek.

Maybe the eastern approach to the viaducts should be rezoned for commercial and highrise residential buildings, much like the rest of that area.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 11:38 AM
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vanman vanman is offline
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Originally Posted by SFUVancouver View Post
That is both the funniest and most despressing term I've come across in a very long time.
I couldn't think of a better term
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 3, 2008, 10:35 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by clooless View Post
Interesting that you think an elevated freeway is an eyesore but the Georgia Viaduct is OK. The original viaduct was built to cross over a rail yard and wasn't nearly as long as the current viaduct, built in 1971. I only mention it because the area around Main and Prior Streets is in a terrible state of decay, and I think removing the viaducts as part of a beautification and redevelopment project would improve the area significantly.
The viaducts are actually a very elegant design for a viaduct. It does not use any bents (post and lintel supports - see TO's Gardiner) and the Main Street overpass has a thin road bed and incredibly wide sightlines under it. I think the decay in the area has more to do with its proximity to the Downtown Eastside and the open drug market than to the viaducts.

Also, you'd basically have to examine whether there has been market incentive to develop the lands below the viaducts since they were used for Expo 86 and whether it is physically viable to do so. Andy Livingstone Park is a repository for the contaminated soils in the area (like David Lam Park is a repository for contaminated soils on the western Concord Lands). Apparently that area was one of the most heavily contaminated on the Concord Lands. I think the soil under the expansion of Creekside Park is similarly contaminated and will be left in place and sealed up (i.e. there's that undergound barrier and pumping station to collect and pump contaminated ground water into the sewer system).

And of course, there's the fact that Concord has left the NE False Creek lands as its last phase (and the expansion of Creekside Park will be done by Concord when it achieves a specified milestone for the area) - so the stagnation is very much a situation imposed on the site by its owners.
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2008, 8:50 PM
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Wooster Wooster is offline
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It really is something that we take for granted in Vancouver and don't realize how lucky we are. We are probably the only major city in North America without a highway in it's core.
Very lucky. Calgary escaped a similar fate in its downtown, which is free of freeways. There was an 8 lane highway, with a realigned CPR mainline planned for the banks of the bow river called the "Downtown Penetrator" (of all the names! It was luckily fought off by some people with vision. Now the city has a fantastic riverfront. Similarly, there was an elevated freeway proposed between 11th and 12th avenues called the south downtown bypass. Also nixed. The compromise was converting those two avenues into one way (which the community is fighting to get switched back).

Vancouver's livability in the core is certainly helped by the lack of such infrastructure.
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 6:19 AM
Mininari Mininari is offline
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Originally Posted by josh white View Post
Very lucky. Calgary escaped a similar fate in its downtown, which is free of freeways. There was an 8 lane highway, with a realigned CPR mainline planned for the banks of the bow river called the "Downtown Penetrator" (of all the names! It was luckily fought off by some people with vision. Now the city has a fantastic riverfront. Similarly, there was an elevated freeway proposed between 11th and 12th avenues called the south downtown bypass. Also nixed. The compromise was converting those two avenues into one way (which the community is fighting to get switched back).

Vancouver's livability in the core is certainly helped by the lack of such infrastructure.
Calgary still does need a freeway bypass so that trucks travelling west from ... oh say, Winnipeg through to Vancouver doesn't have to negotiate 16th avenue.
It certainly doesn't need to run through the middle of town though... isn't there a roadway planned, or under construction through the South of town? Or am I confusing that with Edmonton? Sorry... not watching the Alberta construction too much.

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Originally Posted by clooless View Post
Just trading one eyesore for another. Winnipeg could have one of the most engaging and interesting downtowns of any Canadian city, such is the wealth of character buildings. I don't know what exactly is to blame for the decay; poverty, local government mismanagement, lack of private interest or a combination of these factors, but it is there.
Once again, I'm off topic, but I totally agree with you. I moved to Winnipeg 1 1/2 years ago for school, and I have to say I was incredibly disappointed with just how devoid of life Winnipeg's Exchange district is. I mean, they seem to be trying here, there are businesses and a few restaurants down there, but there just isn't the presence of many steady downtown residents to really make it a lively place. You basically have to drive in, and park to experience it. I am fortunate to live within about 45-minutes walk, but even so, I've only walked over there a few times.

The city wants private money to come into play, but the private players seem to write off building after building, stating that its not economically feasible to fix these buildings up. And in the end, Winnipeg gets another surface parking lot. A certain city leader seems to think that adding parking is the way to revitalize downtown here...

But I digress... majorly.

I, for one, am very happy that Vancouver did NOT build the "Alaskan Viaduct" structure along English Bay.
(I wonder if they had, it would have wrecked the view so much the city would have never imposed view cones and height restrictions...

Last edited by Mininari; Apr 13, 2008 at 6:31 AM.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 10:35 AM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by Mininari View Post
Calgary still does need a freeway bypass so that trucks travelling west from ... oh say, Winnipeg through to Vancouver doesn't have to negotiate 16th avenue.
It certainly doesn't need to run through the middle of town though... isn't there a roadway planned, or under construction through the South of town? Or am I confusing that with Edmonton? Sorry... not watching the Alberta construction too much.
They should just make a trenched freeway where 16th Avenue is, and build overpasses crossing over it at the major cross streets, and maybe a parallel side street to serve local traffic. Something like what they did with the Upper Levels Highway in the City of North Vancouver between Lonsdale Ave. and Westview Drive, where there used to be intersections.
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