Amazon Seeking 2nd Headquarters: Canadian Cities Pitch Interest

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I don't believe a single Canadian city offered tax incentives, because their hands were tied. The Federal government said they weren't supporting any bids with tax incentives unless the city in question was short listed, and I believe municipalities were the same regarding their provincial relationships.

Ontario is offering it's existing help to foreign investors, afaik. For an undertaking this size, the amount would not be insignificant.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I've always heard that Canada was a pretty good deal for international corporations in terms of how much they have to pay (relative to other places) for good talent here.

Yes, Canada is the most educated country in the world right now. A blessing and a curse. It is good for citizenship (an educated populace) and social mobility, but bad for white collar wages (the law of supply and demand).

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Ontario is offering it's existing help to foreign investors, afaik. For an undertaking this size, the amount would not be insignificant.

I believe the same is true for every city in Canada - offering the incentives that are simply offered to every other company looking to set up shop. As far as I know, every municipality in Canada's hands are tied because Federal/Provincial governments don't want to offer anything extra unless the city in question is included on a short list.

Hopefully if a Canadian city was legitimately in the running, the lack of those incentives is not a handicap.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

I have a bit of experience with this, one can build up and scale a relatively large organizational apparatus with as few as 10 senior professionals from the parent company. The rest can be sourced locally and trained remotely, which is kind of the point of getting a second headquarters.

As far as Americans crossing the border, this isn't 2007 anymore. Toronto is a different city, most Americans visiting now fall in love with the place, it has a lot more polish and dynamism and quality of life than most major American cities.

The scale of this is quite different though. With four figure short term jobs at stake and 50k long term, this is going to need to attract worldwide talent.

While it is certainly possible to build the company with Canadian-only talent, I don't think that is exactly what Amazon has in mind with the long term goals of such a giant important HQ2 style corporate entity.

If they can't leverage the country of choice to attract world wide talent, that will definitely be a negative.

My only point is that as much as paying engineers in Canadian dollars seems like a good deal on the surface (and would be for an organization of smaller scale), I don't think that will really factor in to the long term goals.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by geotag277

I believe the same is true for every city in Canada - offering the incentives that are simply offered to every other company looking to set up shop. As far as I know, every municipality in Canada's hands are tied because Federal/Provincial governments don't want to offer anything extra unless the city in question is included on a short list.

Hopefully if a Canadian city was legitimately in the running, the lack of those incentives is not a handicap.

The Toronto bid, and I assume the other Canadian bids, also flag the huge potential salary savings.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by geotag277

The scale of this is quite different though. With four figure short term jobs at stake and 50k long term, this is going to need to attract worldwide talent.

While it is certainly possible to build the company with Canadian-only talent, I don't think that is exactly what Amazon has in mind with the long term goals of such a giant important HQ2 style corporate entity.

If they can't leverage the country of choice to attract world wide talent, that will definitely be a negative.

My only point is that as much as paying engineers in Canadian dollars seems like a good deal on the surface (and would be for an organization of smaller scale), I don't think that will really factor in to the long term goals.

Worldwide talent would drool at Canadian wages, the USA is just in another stratosphere for top shelf jobs.

Also, the company I helped build up as part of a market entry exercise, used 10 HQ staff that eventually scaled to ~500 local employees (not including remote or overseas based new hires). At that range, there's sufficient capacity to build out to any size the business requires.

[mistercorporate]

Opinion piece in the Washington Post (owned by Amazon's CEO).

Why Trump might be driving Amazon HQ2 to Canada:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.3ecfc51b694d

Comments section is appropriately hilarious, including customary Calgarian explaining why it will be his city and not Toronto
If it's about our quality of life, the haters are from Montreal, if it's about our economy they're from Calgary and if about our sports, they're from Saskatchewan

[FFX-ME]

Interesting article, some cities are doing some really weird shit to lure Amazon. Ottawa and Calagary are on the list.

The eight most outrageous things cities did to lure Amazon for HQ2
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/19/...crest-new-york

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Opinion piece in the Washington Post (owned by Amazon's CEO).

Why Trump might be driving Amazon HQ2 to Canada:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.3ecfc51b694d

Comments section is appropriately hilarious, including customary Calgarian explaining why it will be his city and not Toronto
If it's about our quality of life, the haters are from Montreal, if it's about our economy they're from Calgary and if about our sports, they're from Saskatchewan

Just to provide some context for those who didn't click on the article and read the comments section.

Seems like the Calgarian appropriately gave his opinion, which is customary for any comments section of an article. That same person actually explained that, in his opinion of course, that if it were Toronto, it would likely be GTA somewhere, not in Toronto.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Just to provide some context for those who didn't click on the article and read the comments section.

Seems like the Calgarian appropriately gave his opinion, which is customary for any comments section of an article. That same person actually explained that, in his opinion of course, that if it were Toronto, it would likely be GTA somewhere, not in Toronto.

I just finished reading the comments and noticed that.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Our consistently lower Canadian dollar, lower corporate taxes, free medicare and significantly lower tech/management wages gives us conservatively about $2 billion in savings per year vs any American city. That's about $10 billion in the first 5 years alone.

The Toronto bid report says that the healthcare factor alone would be a cost savings of US$600 million a year.

[geotag277]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Worldwide talent would drool at Canadian wages, the USA is just in another stratosphere for top shelf jobs.

Also, the company I helped build up as part of a market entry exercise, used 10 HQ staff that eventually scaled to ~500 local employees (not including remote or overseas based new hires). At that range, there's sufficient capacity to build out to any size the business requires.

Except "worldwide" from a Canadian context includes the United States, and by setting up a HQ in Canada, Amazon will have to convince American software developers to come to Canada to be paid in Canadian dollars, which is explicitly being advertised as an advantage.

IMO, that isn't an advantage, because it will make relocating engineers from the country with the most software engineers quite a bit more complicated.

All I'm saying is that from a pro/con perspective, low wages are more of a pro for a smaller project. When the scale of 50k is considered, and building to that by hoping to attract top tier talent from south of the border, that might be a handicap.

I believe Amazon did call out talent as the #1 consideration.Does having a weak Canadian dollar help? I think it's quite debatable.

[GDS]

Amazon's 2nd North American headquarters - Greater Montréal has officially submitted its bid

News provided by
Montréal International

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...651876133.html

MONTRÉAL, Oct. 20, 2017 /CNW Telbec/ - Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International, personally delivered Greater Montréal's bid for Amazon's second North American headquarters yesterday in Seattle. Tasked by the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal (CMM) and supported by the Government of Québec, Montréal International presented a distinct and ambitious proposal to the global e-commerce giant. Amazon could invest over $5 billion in the construction of its new headquarters and hire up to 50,000 new employees.

"The whole team stepped up its efforts in the past few weeks to highlight all the know-how and creativity Greater Montréal has to offer. The city is one of the most tech-forward in the world and that is attractive to Amazon, one of the most innovative companies in the 21st century," said Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International. "It would be a winning alliance perfectly aligned with the city's ambition as it has experienced a phenomenal 23% growth among ICT workers in the past five years."

"Québec's business environment is conducive to thriving innovation in leading-edge industries, such as the digital and AI sectors, making Montréal a prime home base for a player of Amazon's magnitude. Québec is the first Canadian province to soon adopt a digital strategy, and this will push Québec's digital expertise and know-how even further," highlighted Dominique Anglade, Deputy Premier, Minister of Economy, Science and Innovation, and Minister responsible for the Digital Strategy.

"Our city has considerable assets playing in its favour for Amazon to set up its headquarters here. Montréal has created an ecosystem of expertise and innovation, with its pool of creative talent, making it one of the world's most competitive digital hubs. The arrival of this global e-commerce giant will strengthen its position and the whole province of Québec will get to reap the benefits," stated Martin Coiteux, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Land Occupancy, Minister of Public Security, and Minister responsible for the Montréal region.

"Montréal is undeniably one of the world's leading cities and it definitely has what it takes to attract such an investment. We've got urban land with development potential, a pool of skilled talent supported by a vibrant, high-achieving academic community, an innovation district and a thriving ecosystem, cultural and linguistic diversity, great quality of life and a safe environment, not to mention that European feel that no other American city has. That's what we have to offer and you can't find that anywhere else. What's more, Montréal's bid enjoys the support of the business community and all three levels of government, making the city a serious contender in the process," said Montréal Mayor Denis Coderre.

A few highlights in the Montréal bid:

A deep and growing pool of relevant talent fueled by a world-class education system (Montréal accounts for the highest number of students in Canada (320,000), spread within 11 university institutions and more than 60 colleges);
Canada's world class technology hub (Montréal has the highest concentration of tech sector jobs in any Canadian city and reached the international Top 5 of leading cities in video games, visual effects, artificial intelligence and aerospace);
Economic and political stability, including an open and efficient immigration system (As a collaboration between the Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada, the Québec component of Canada's Global Skills Strategy helps innovative companies get workers faster by offering a two-week processing time for work permit);
A 20% to 25% cost advantage compared to similar cities (thanks to affordable wages, attractive corporate effective tax rate, and low, stable energy costs);
A high purchasing power and exceptional quality of life (Montréal offers young professionals housing that costs 25% less than in Toronto and 86% less than in Boston).

About Montréal International (www.montrealinternational.com)
Established in 1996, Montréal International is a non-profit organization funded by the private sector, the governments of Canada and Québec, the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal and the City of Montréal. Its mission is to attract foreign investment, international organizations and skilled talent to Greater Montréal by providing assistance services tailored to their needs.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by geotag277

Except "worldwide" from a Canadian context includes the United States, and by setting up a HQ in Canada, Amazon will have to convince American software developers to come to Canada to be paid in Canadian dollars, which is explicitly being advertised as an advantage.

IMO, that isn't an advantage, because it will make relocating engineers from the country with the most software engineers quite a bit more complicated.

All I'm saying is that from a pro/con perspective, low wages are more of a pro for a smaller project. When the scale of 50k is considered, and building to that by hoping to attract top tier talent from south of the border, that might be a handicap.

I believe Amazon did call out talent as the #1 consideration.Does having a weak Canadian dollar help? I think it's quite debatable.

Will they? I've seen other comments that seem to assume large numbers of Americans coming up to a Canadian HQ2 and I'm not sure why. I could see a cadre of very senior people coming in, at least initially, but beyond that I'm not sure why it would be a big thing.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by GDS

Amazon's 2nd North American headquarters - Greater Montréal has officially submitted its bid

News provided by
Montréal International

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...651876133.html

MONTRÉAL, Oct. 20, 2017 /CNW Telbec/ - Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International, personally delivered Greater Montréal's bid for Amazon's second North American headquarters yesterday in Seattle. Tasked by the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal (CMM) and supported by the Government of Québec, Montréal International presented a distinct and ambitious proposal to the global e-commerce giant. Amazon could invest over $5 billion in the construction of its new headquarters and hire up to 50,000 new employees.

"The whole team stepped up its efforts in the past few weeks to highlight all the know-how and creativity Greater Montréal has to offer. The city is one of the most tech-forward in the world and that is attractive to Amazon, one of the most innovative companies in the 21st century," said Hubert Bolduc, President and CEO of Montréal International. "It would be a winning alliance perfectly aligned with the city's ambition as it has experienced a phenomenal 23% growth among ICT workers in the past five years."

"Québec's business environment is conducive to thriving innovation in leading-edge industries, such as the digital and AI sectors, making Montréal a prime home base for a player of Amazon's magnitude. Québec is the first Canadian province to soon adopt a digital strategy, and this will push Québec's digital expertise and know-how even further," highlighted Dominique Anglade, Deputy Premier, Minister of Economy, Science and Innovation, and Minister responsible for the Digital Strategy.

"Our city has considerable assets playing in its favour for Amazon to set up its headquarters here. Montréal has created an ecosystem of expertise and innovation, with its pool of creative talent, making it one of the world's most competitive digital hubs. The arrival of this global e-commerce giant will strengthen its position and the whole province of Québec will get to reap the benefits," stated Martin Coiteux, Minister of Municipal Affairs and Land Occupancy, Minister of Public Security, and Minister responsible for the Montréal region.

"Montréal is undeniably one of the world's leading cities and it definitely has what it takes to attract such an investment. We've got urban land with development potential, a pool of skilled talent supported by a vibrant, high-achieving academic community, an innovation district and a thriving ecosystem, cultural and linguistic diversity, great quality of life and a safe environment, not to mention that European feel that no other American city has. That's what we have to offer and you can't find that anywhere else. What's more, Montréal's bid enjoys the support of the business community and all three levels of government, making the city a serious contender in the process," said Montréal Mayor Denis Coderre.

A few highlights in the Montréal bid:

A deep and growing pool of relevant talent fueled by a world-class education system (Montréal accounts for the highest number of students in Canada (320,000), spread within 11 university institutions and more than 60 colleges);
Canada's world class technology hub (Montréal has the highest concentration of tech sector jobs in any Canadian city and reached the international Top 5 of leading cities in video games, visual effects, artificial intelligence and aerospace);
Economic and political stability, including an open and efficient immigration system (As a collaboration between the Government of Quebec and the Government of Canada, the Québec component of Canada's Global Skills Strategy helps innovative companies get workers faster by offering a two-week processing time for work permit);
A 20% to 25% cost advantage compared to similar cities (thanks to affordable wages, attractive corporate effective tax rate, and low, stable energy costs);
A high purchasing power and exceptional quality of life (Montréal offers young professionals housing that costs 25% less than in Toronto and 86% less than in Boston).

About Montréal International (www.montrealinternational.com)
Established in 1996, Montréal International is a non-profit organization funded by the private sector, the governments of Canada and Québec, the Communauté métropolitaine de Montréal and the City of Montréal. Its mission is to attract foreign investment, international organizations and skilled talent to Greater Montréal by providing assistance services tailored to their needs.

Montreal is in many ways a very good fit (the talent ratio of availability vs. cost is superior by far to pretty much anywhere else) but the language issue is likely a show-stopper.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Montreal is in many ways a very good fit (the talent ratio of availability vs. cost is superior by far to pretty much anywhere else) but the language issue is likely a show-stopper.

Their language (French) allowed them to bag Ubisoft's North American hedquarters, but indeed will prove a disadvantage with English speaking firms. Maybe they can bag EADS/Airbus or Renault factories next? . France is going down the tubes right now, Quebec has major advantages for French firms (NAFTA, low COL, etc.)

[ScreamingViking]

Source

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Delirium

why is Hamilton even bidding? they don't meet the required population criteria for one. in terms of incentives, hard to compete with places like this

Originally Posted by ssiguy

As far as Hamilton.............why are they even bidding? They are part of the Toronto Region bid and doing so could hurt the Toronto bid as it may look to Amazon that the region is not cohesive.

Originally Posted by geotag277

Hamilton et al. all prepared 200+ page bids, that they submitted in secret. How is that going to attract "other companies"? Unless they are planning on sending this secret bid unsolicited to random silicon valley technology companies?

There is a bigger picture that seems to be eluding some folks here... There's a cost to bidding for sure, and it may pale in comparison to the chance Amazon will actually pick those bids.

But it's a relative pittance to pull a bid together. For some cities this is an opportunity to get ducks lined up and refreshed for other hunters of economic opportunity.

[Hali87]

I'm curious as to what J.H. stands for in that map.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I'm curious as to what J.H. stands for in that map.

Jackson Hole