Southern cities with "urbanity" potential

[BnaBreaker]

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

That explains the name of Peoria. Must be a corruption of Pee-Urea.

[JAYNYC]

Originally Posted by JManc

For all the inane comments lobbed at Nashville for not being a 'real' city, statistics would suggest otherwise. It's booming.

"Booming" is subjective.

That said, the thing about Nashville is that people (on this forum and in general) constantly rave about Nashville's "boom", allure, etc., when the city isn't statistically booming significantly more (and, in some cases, is actually booming less) than a slew of other similarly sized US metro areas that aren't garnering half as much attention / PR / buzz.

MSA - POPULATION (GROWTH RATE):


Charlotte - 2,525,305 (14%)
Orlando - 2,509,831 (17.6%)
San Antonio - 2,473,974 (15.5%)
Las Vegas - 2,204,079 (13%)
Columbus - 2,078,725 (9.3%)

Nashville - 1,903,045 (13.9%)

Jacksonville - 1,504,980 (11.9%)
Oklahoma City - 1,383,737 (10.4)
Raleigh - 1,335,079 (18.1%)

I get it - a lot of Americans are fans of country music and the lifestyle associated with it, but beyond that, what makes Nashville's "boom" any different than the aforementioned cities (and yes, I've spent substantial time in and around the Nashville metro).

[SIGSEGV]

Yeah but have you tried Nashville Hot Chicken? It's like, a chicken sandwich with hot sauce!

[Hindentanic]

As a few others already have, I'll make a pitch for San Antonio, Texas, which I have long thought has the potential for a great urban center similar to the old urbanism of northern cities.

Yes, Austin currently has greater economic momentum, a slightly higher growth rate, and is sprouting skyscrapers in an impressive skyline building boom, but consider these scenes as contrasts in urbanism:

San Antonio, corner of Broadway St. and E. Travis St.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/4RQQF7WTQav

Older, decrepit buildings, narrow sidewalks, and no dedicated bicycle lanes in what is one of the more neglected corners of downtown. In a bygone era, streetcars ran down here. If anyone wants to put in a new downtown skyscraper, I know a nice available open parking lot right at this corner.

Austin, 3rd St. at Guadalupe St.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/Z8KtWsAhFt22

Clearly a taller building boom at the heart of the new skyscraper zone with wider sidewalks, new tree lines, and progressive bicycle lanes. It even gets the sunnier Google Earth street view. Yet, which is the more walkable urbanism that looks like a traditional walkable city? San Antonio has streets and corners like that in spades, but they are largely inactivated as the city admittedly does not have the economy of Dallas, Houston, or now even Austin. However, 20 years ago, tiny Austin did not have that economic potential or outlook either, and visionaries had hoped Austin's warehouse district might be densified in a way more resembling Barcelona than sunbelt Houston. Actually, I would argue downtown Austin is going off track, for its historical grid design used hierarchical streets and a system of service alleys to avoid breaks in frontage on major streets, but many of the newer developments have, due to their scale, abandoned that consideration and made blank wall service frontages and dead zones along major streets.

Ironically, Austin's more successful 2nd St., which makes a better urbanism than its dismal 3rd St., shares elements with what already long made downtown San Antonio idealistically appealing:

Austin, 2nd St. at San Antonio St.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/BrWBh2DB5482

San Antonio, Houston St. at St. Mary's St.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/QZ4Q3DHLtNm

Can we spot the similarities? More important for this thread, which has more of the urbanism of the north? Amusingly, what these two scenes both share in common are comparatively narrow streets especially given the heights of the buildings...there was a lot of consternation in Austin decades ago when the proposal was for actually narrowing the center city's street for more bike lanes, wider sidewalks, or dedicated mass transit lanes. San Antonians are now facing the same prospects as proposals are made to further close streets and redevelop others into proper boulevards.

Speaking of a narrow San Antonio street that could easily be more urbanistically than that it is, here is College St: https://goo.gl/maps/E6LZBp1kNtm


Interestingly, San Antonio's peers are not Austin, Dallas, or Houston, but New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston. There are many obvious explanations for why the other Texas cities are ahead, but San Antonio needs to ask itself why it has for so long lagged behind those other colonial Southern cities.

Nevertheless, potential and current activation are not the same thing. Austin is currently active, while San Antonio is woefully behind. However, Austin does not have that much historically in place to work with--its downtown growth has already outgrown its original CBD and now lost warehouse district and is reaching into the inner suburbs. That is great as growth, but it also means the pattern more easily trends as newer, sterile design more often seen in the suburbs transplanted into downtown with podiums and a tower top.

San Antonio has a downtown largely frozen in time, with a few glaring demolitions made over the decades in aborted attempts at urban renewal. Surrounding this downtown core is a sea of low industrial zones and surface lots. Projected growth is for a million new residents within the next few decades, and while most of them may end up in the ever expanding suburbs, a better plan would be to direct much of that growth into this surrounding low density ring directly connected to downtown. Already large apartment blocks are appearing in this area and riverwalks have been extended into them while planners draw up master plans for the new urbanism of this zone. Sadly, a key part of proactively preparing for this near downtown redevelopment, a downtown streetcar system, was abandoned by cowardly city leaders after its primary cheerleader, mayor Julian Castro, was poached to become HUD Secretary in Washington.

The previously shown above scene of San Antonio's Broadway in a bygone era:


(Photo by John Knight, #MS 26, John Knight Transportation Collection, UTSA Special Collections)

A greater mistake will be if these upcoming developments also abandon downtown urbanism for a transplanted, auto-centric suburbanism. Behind the low industrial ring are the inner suburbs, all uniformly gridded for 4-5 miles in every direction. In a previous century these were streetcar suburbs, though now they are today poorer inner city suburbs petrified of gentrification. More so than the economics holding downtown back are these fears of change, for protecting the status quo means to fall behind to inflation, depreciation, and deferred maintenance, thus further perpetuating blight and poverty. The economics will eventually play out given time as the overly subsidized suburban sprawl chokes on its own diffusiveness, but the protective class culture attitudes may not.

All the more pity, because this view of St. Mary's St. would definitely sell today, regardless of the automobile models:


(Photo by Albert Schaal, #110-0D161, General Photograph Collection, UTSA Special Collections)


Oh well, a last urbanism vs. urbanism:

Austin, corner of 5th St. and Nueces St.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/ktHr3RWAcmF2

San Antonio, Dwyer Ave.:

(Imagery from Google Earth)

https://goo.gl/maps/EZFqsbJmhx52

The technology and construction techniques are neither novel nor complicated, so why is infill so freaking hard?

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Chef

The birthrate has fallen in a lot of the countries that have been sending immigrants to the US over the last four decades. This will have a big impact in the long run but is currently blunted by the fact that those immigrants have been having a lot of kids in the US.

With birthrates falling in Latin America and east Asia, it is likely that the main source of emigrants in the future will be south Asia, the Middle East and Africa. It is an open question whether they will come to the US in levels similar to previous waves of immigration, or instead choose other countries.

And within the U.S., birthrates have plummeted over the last decade. Partially this is due to a slowdown in immigration, esp. from Latin America. But it's mostly due to native-born women having one kid instead of two or three.

I don't think people realize how fast the birthrate has fallen. We're basically Germany. The U.S. birthrate has fallen to 1.7 and Germany's birthrate has risen to 1.6. U.S. will have a population crisis within our lifetimes unless immigration increases.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And within the U.S., birthrates have plummeted over the last decade. Partially this is due to a slowdown in immigration, esp. from Latin America. But it's mostly due to native-born women having one kid instead of two or three.

I don't think people realize how fast the birthrate has fallen. We're basically Germany. The U.S. birthrate has fallen to 1.7 and Germany's birthrate has risen to 1.6. U.S. will have a population crisis within our lifetimes unless immigration increases.

i see 1.8 for the u.s. and 1.5 for germany, but your point still stands. as recently as 2010 it was over 2.0 for the u.s.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Crawford

And within the U.S., birthrates have plummeted over the last decade. Partially this is due to a slowdown in immigration, esp. from Latin America. But it's mostly due to native-born women having one kid instead of two or three.

I don't think people realize how fast the birthrate has fallen. We're basically Germany. The U.S. birthrate has fallen to 1.7 and Germany's birthrate has risen to 1.6. U.S. will have a population crisis within our lifetimes unless immigration increases.

1. The US already has a population crisis. The entire reason programs like social security are bankrupt is slower than projected population growth.

2. Looking at the numbers doesn't even tell the whole story of how bad things are because it's the least desirable people breeding the most meaning we're getting more of the wrong sort of people and less of the right sort each generation.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Hindentanic

As a few others already have, I'll make a pitch for San Antonio, Texas, which I have long thought has the potential for a great urban center similar to the old urbanism of northern cities.

...

Your post inspired me to explore San Antonio a bit more. I of course knew about the Riverwalk, but didn't realize it otherwise had quite such a substantial historic core.

Outside of downtown though, it doesn't seem to have any high-density residential areas or vibrant retail corridors; but it's blessed with a fairly extensive ring of small, gridded blocks that - in theory, at least - could very effectively accommodate future intensification.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

it's the least desirable people breeding the most meaning we're getting more of the wrong sort of people and less of the right sort each generation.

What's your definition of the right and wrong sort?

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

What's your definition of the right and wrong sort?

Poor, uneducated, criminals etc.

The US welfare and tax system strongly incentivizes these sort of people to have kids while making middle class families with kids struggle.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

2. Looking at the numbers doesn't even tell the whole story of how bad things are because it's the least desirable people breeding the most meaning we're getting more of the wrong sort of people and less of the right sort each generation.

Here we go again...