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  #121  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 1:38 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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A park with no benches coming soon to Rideau Street

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 5, 2016 | Last Updated: June 5, 2016 8:22 PM EDT


Fears of homeless people loitering or panhandling are among the reasons why the city isn’t installing benches or permanent seating in a new Rideau Street pedestrian plaza currently under construction.

mpearson@postmedia.com
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-rideau-street
I'm sorry to do this again, because I'm friends with Matthew, but...

WON"T SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNN!!!?!!? OMGGG OMGGG THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!

No benches is a gateway drug to serial nimbyism, which is the hardest drug of them all!! Someone MUST save the children from not sitting.
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  #122  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:05 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is online now
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
I'm sorry to do this again, because I'm friends with Matthew, but...

WON"T SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNN!!!?!!? OMGGG OMGGG THE MADNESS OF IT ALL!!!

No benches is a gateway drug to serial nimbyism, which is the hardest drug of them all!! Someone MUST save the children from not sitting.
The fact that you don't understand how public spaces work is not Matthew's problem.
It's not about giving tired people a place to sit.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:15 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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The fact that you don't understand how public spaces work is not Matthew's problem.
It's not about giving tired people a place to sit.
The last 10 years living in downtown Ottawa has shown me that 99.999% of the time, a panhandler sits on the ground, or is up actively walking next to me with their sales pitch. Otherwise, what is so bad about a homeless person sitting on a bench? When was that a huge concern? Click-bait dictates the story be about panhandlers.

The truth to the situation is, the City of Ottawa didn't want to put benches because public programming for the space (bands, performances, etc.) would mean the newly installed benches would have to be unbolted and shifted around several times, ruining the brand new stone pavers, and nobody has enough foresight to place furniture effectively where this doesn't have to happen. After 1 or 2 years of temporary furniture, there will be benches. Look on the bright side, at least there's trees. Nobody wants to read that story, because its anti-inflammatory.
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  #124  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:22 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
The last 10 years living in downtown Ottawa has shown me that 99.999% of the time, a panhandler sits on the ground, or is up actively walking next to me with their sales pitch. Otherwise, what is so bad about a homeless person sitting on a bench? When was that a huge concern? Click-bait dictates the story be about panhandlers.

The truth to the situation is, the City of Ottawa didn't want to put benches because public programming for the space (bands, performances, etc.) would mean the newly installed benches would have to be unbolted and shifted around several times, ruining the brand new stone pavers, and nobody has enough foresight to place furniture effectively where this doesn't have to happen. After 1 or 2 years of temporary furniture, there will be benches. Look on the bright side, at least there's trees. Nobody wants to read that story, because its anti-inflammatory.
I cannot see how/why this would be so - aligning the benches with (below) the line of trees would allow them to be permanently in place, it seems to me.
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  #125  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:43 PM
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A bunch of brightly coloured plastic Muskoka-type chairs and a few wooden picnic tables (also could be brightly painted, like the ones on the skating rink in Marion Dewar plaza) would solve this problem. They're fun and inexpensive, light and awkwardly-shaped enough that they'd be hard to use as weapons or tools for vandalism, and won't damage the paving if they're dragged around to chase sun/shade or align with/around programming. Some will break, some will walk, some will sit empty for large parts of the day, some will be used by people other people might not want to sit with. That's a city.
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  #126  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:53 PM
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Agreed that the benches could be aligned with the trees. Also, how how Nestle Toll House doesn't get patio space? Seems like a no brainer to me.
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  #127  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 2:57 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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I cannot see how/why this would be so - aligning the benches with (below) the line of trees would allow them to be permanently in place, it seems to me.
You'd think so, right? So then a City of Ottawa project manager has to make that call, is not willing to make that call/higher up questions the call, and then nothing happens.
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  #128  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 3:16 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by McC View Post
A bunch of brightly coloured plastic Muskoka-type chairs and a few wooden picnic tables (also could be brightly painted, like the ones on the skating rink in Marion Dewar plaza) would solve this problem. They're fun and inexpensive, light and awkwardly-shaped enough that they'd be hard to use as weapons or tools for vandalism, and won't damage the paving if they're dragged around to chase sun/shade or align with/around programming. Some will break, some will walk, some will sit empty for large parts of the day, some will be used by people other people might not want to sit with. That's a city.
Kitchener has been doing that in it's City Hall square for several years now - it is fun looking and the street furniture tends to be well used. I've never heard any reports of loss or damage.
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  #129  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 4:00 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is online now
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
The last 10 years living in downtown Ottawa has shown me that 99.999% of the time, a panhandler sits on the ground, or is up actively walking next to me with their sales pitch. Otherwise, what is so bad about a homeless person sitting on a bench? When was that a huge concern? Click-bait dictates the story be about panhandlers.

The truth to the situation is, the City of Ottawa didn't want to put benches because public programming for the space (bands, performances, etc.) would mean the newly installed benches would have to be unbolted and shifted around several times, ruining the brand new stone pavers, and nobody has enough foresight to place furniture effectively where this doesn't have to happen. After 1 or 2 years of temporary furniture, there will be benches. Look on the bright side, at least there's trees. Nobody wants to read that story, because its anti-inflammatory.
Sorry, I must've misunderstood your comment then.
I agree.
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  #130  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 4:45 PM
TheGoods TheGoods is offline
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Agreed that the benches could be aligned with the trees. Also, how how Nestle Toll House doesn't get patio space? Seems like a no brainer to me.
I looked at the plan, there is room for a patio, maybe Nestle decided not to have a patio, or maybe they will apply for a patio at a later date. There is a cost to use city property to house a patio and maybe the owners decided that it was not worth the expense in their business model were a typical customer buys a drink and a dessert versus having a meal with alcohol.
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  #131  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 5:08 PM
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I looked at the plan, there is room for a patio, maybe Nestle decided not to have a patio, or maybe they will apply for a patio at a later date. There is a cost to use city property to house a patio and maybe the owners decided that it was not worth the expense in their business model were a typical customer buys a drink and a dessert versus having a meal with alcohol.
Isn't Nestle closed? It sure looked that way the last time I was by there.
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  #132  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 9:24 PM
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Isn't Nestle closed? It sure looked that way the last time I was by there.
Yes, close due to rent in arrears. So is the clothing store next to it on Nicholas. The were both run by the same brothers.
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  #133  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
The last 10 years living in downtown Ottawa has shown me that 99.999% of the time, a panhandler sits on the ground, or is up actively walking next to me with their sales pitch. Otherwise, what is so bad about a homeless person sitting on a bench? When was that a huge concern? Click-bait dictates the story be about panhandlers.

The truth to the situation is, the City of Ottawa didn't want to put benches because public programming for the space (bands, performances, etc.) would mean the newly installed benches would have to be unbolted and shifted around several times, ruining the brand new stone pavers, and nobody has enough foresight to place furniture effectively where this doesn't have to happen. After 1 or 2 years of temporary furniture, there will be benches. Look on the bright side, at least there's trees. Nobody wants to read that story, because its anti-inflammatory.
Exactly! The City is just coming up with excuses to save a few bucks. Even the idea that we can't add seating so that emergency vehicles can pass; place the benches on each side. Not complicated.
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  #134  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 4:52 PM
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Watson orders benches in new Ogilvy Square plaza

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: June 7, 2016 | Last Updated: June 7, 2016 11:47 AM EDT




A Rideau Street pedestrian plaza under construction will have park benches after all.

Mayor Jim Watson said Tuesday that he has ordered city staff to install benches in Ogilvy Square, which is replacing a short stretch of Nicholas Street between Rideau and Besserer streets closed permanently to vehicle traffic, after reading a story in Monday’s Citizen.

“It should be a place where people can sit, relax and enjoy this new plaza,” Watson told reporters.

“There will be benches there.”

Drawings of the new square show a line of trees on one side and a large restaurant patio on the other. There will also be bike racks and space that can be used for various special events or for the installation of public art.

But the plan included no place to sit.

The city concluded that benches or permanent seating would be hard to work around or move every time the space was used for a special event. It’s unclear who would ultimately be responsible for programming activities in the new square, which provides a key link between the ByWard Market, the future Rideau LRT station and the redeveloped Arts Court complex that’s set to open next year.

But fears of homeless people loitering or panhandling also factored into the decision, much to the chagrin of some residents and the Lowertown Community Association.

“Vague concerns about flexible use of space and fear of itinerant individuals should not be the basis for urban planning,” the association’s president, Liz Bernstein, told city officials in a letter last month.

She cheered the news on Tuesday.

“We appreciate the mayor’s leadership in responding so quickly to ensure all Ottawans can enjoy this great new public space,” Bernstein said.

The mayor said he couldn’t think of a similar pedestrian plaza around the world that doesn’t have “places for people to sit and enjoy.”

Not installing benches would also run counter to the city’s Older Adult Plan, which encourages people to walk more and enjoy the downtown, but also acknowledges they may need a place to sit and rest, he added.

The new square takes its name from Ogilvy’s, the former department store that stood on that corner for more than a century. The building’s façade has been incorporated into the massive Rideau Centre expansion.

Cadillac Fairview, which owns the Rideau Centre, is building the square to the city’s specifications as part of a site plan agreement approved after the company announced the mall’s $360-million expansion in 2013.

The mall and Ogilvy Square are both scheduled to open in August.

Work on the square, as well as the sidewalk on the Rideau Street side, is costing about $1.6 million.

mpearson@postmedia.com
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...y-square-plaza
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  #135  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 4:55 PM
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In my teenage years in the 90s, I was one of the loitering kids who congregated in the Rideau Centre food court, the planters outside and the William St. mall. Although those were fun times, I don't think Rideau Street was a pleasant place then or now and that's mostly because of the mix of drug dealers, shelter residents and the kids coming downtown looking for action. Nobody can deny that out front of MacDonalds is the worst example of urban decay. Nobody wants to see that. Hopefully the removal of the bus shelters will help the situation there, but MacDonalds will always be more of a beacon to street scuzz than any bench. They tried playing classical music to keep them away (lol) but that was obviously not effective. Maybe they could put a little decorative gate around both sides of the entrance or something.

Having a few benches scattered around is OK but what we want to avoid is seating for large groups (like the planters and fountains which have been removed) that encourages packs of kids to set up camp on the street.
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  #136  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2016, 5:58 PM
AndyMEng AndyMEng is offline
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Originally Posted by AndyMEng View Post
The last 10 years living in downtown Ottawa has shown me that 99.999% of the time, a panhandler sits on the ground, or is up actively walking next to me with their sales pitch. Otherwise, what is so bad about a homeless person sitting on a bench? When was that a huge concern? Click-bait dictates the story be about panhandlers.

The truth to the situation is, the City of Ottawa didn't want to put benches because public programming for the space (bands, performances, etc.) would mean the newly installed benches would have to be unbolted and shifted around several times, ruining the brand new stone pavers, and nobody has enough foresight to place furniture effectively where this doesn't have to happen. After 1 or 2 years of temporary furniture, there will be benches. Look on the bright side, at least there's trees. Nobody wants to read that story, because its anti-inflammatory.
I don't mean to brag but...

Jim Watson: “There will be benches there.”
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  #137  
Old Posted Dec 14, 2017, 3:20 AM
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Rideau Street's prospects have rarely been better — but for the cry for help

Kelly Egan, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: December 12, 2017 | Last Updated: December 12, 2017 6:31 PM EST




East of the canal, Rideau Street has historically acted as a fuzzy dividing line in central Ottawa — (upper) Sandy Hill had grand houses with servants, where prime ministers slept; Lowertown sold live chickens and butchered hogs, a place where hookers walked.

Even today, a woman named Donna, 64 and street-worn, is panhandling on the frigid sidewalk in front of the Rideau Centre, buried under a dark blanket, having come from a tent where she sleeps near Hog’s Back, to hold up a sign that says “God bless you” for your pennies. Just a few steps away, one can admire a mid-blue Hugo Boss overcoat on the rack at Nordstrom for $1,296.

So Rideau was and is where rags meets riches. Maybe it is bred in our bones.

But something important happened at the Ottawa Police Services Board late last month that felt like a tipping point in this 150-year-old braiding of poverty and prosperity.

Downtown Rideau, a business improvement board normally pretty chipper about the future, painted an alarming picture about the state of crime, vagrancy, “lawlessness” and general disorder its members are contending with — without enough police assistance.

After a massive investment in the Rideau Centre ($340 million) — and, in truth, it has never looked better — the merchant presentation was a cry for help, an appeal to police to put more boots on the ground to deter crime, loitering and vagrancy — in effect, for the public sector to do its share by dedicating proportional resources.

How bad have we let things get?

Consider that even the Ottawa Gatineau Hotel Association is worried about the safety of visitors staying in the heart of the city. Imagine what a first impression that makes at the concierge desk.

“Many hotels are clearly concerned and some have stopped recommending Downtown Rideau and ByWard Market as tourism destinations after dark due to safety concerns,” wrote president Steve Ball, who has 50-some hoteliers in his group.

“I do think there has been an increase in gun use, from back in the day,” he said, referring to his longtime experience with Downtown Rideau. (Only Friday, a man was found with a gunshot wound in the 200 block of Rideau.)

“(Hotels) continually get asked by guests, ‘Where should I go and what should I do?’ They have a responsibility to send them to safe places and know what the policing situation is.”

Donna Holtom owns Holtz Spa — which has been operating on Rideau, near the corner of Sussex Drive, for 32 years — and is the current chair of the Downtown Rideau Board of Management. In other words, she’s seen and heard it all.

“We have this discussion over and over and over again,” she said Tuesday, expressing no confidence in the latest police plans for greater Rideau. It needs a co-ordinated approach, from all stakeholders, she said, to address the issues of homelessness, addictions and the mental health of the disadvantaged — not just more badges and blue uniforms.

“This is what is lacking. The political will. You look at many other major cities. When they decide enough is enough and they want the health and wellness back into their core, they make it happen.” (Witness New York, many say, and Times Square.)

Downtown Rideau estimates $1.1 billion has been invested in the greater Rideau area since 2014, while the city invested millions in attracting tourists here for 2017.

“And what are we doing? We drive tourists into an area that is an embarrassment for the city and the national capital area. It simply does not make sense.”

The “policing situation”, boiled down to hard truths, is this: there are fewer foot patrols, it probably isn’t going to get better, many of the problems are social, not criminal, and pouring merchant money into private security might be here to stay.

Ottawa police Supt. Mark Ford, who directs front-line operations, has met several times with Downtown Rideau. “From their perspective, their perception is their reality. We do appreciate that.”

Before the force began a new “service delivery model” in January, there used to be a beat patrol unit with 12 officers, two of them supervisors. Now there are four foot patrols for the city’s central area, but those numbers are abetted by, in the summer, the bike patrol officers.

“That letter kind of caught us off guard,” Ford admits of Downtown Rideau’s suggestion it rarely sees a uniformed foot patrol. The new model allows more flexibility and less segregation between units, meaning officers can be directed to wherever the need is, he explained.

“We certainly heeded their comments and we’re looking to see that our officers are there and as visible as possible.”

He also said it is “absolutely” true that many of Rideau Street’s problems are social — poverty, homelessness, addictions, mental illness — and police have limited means to fix them, especially on the sidewalk.

“The police are merely a Band-Aid to the problem,” he said, when asked about regular panhandling. (Indeed, sidewalk Donna admits she’s had many tickets, been hauled off to jail, yet returns.)

Others point to the confluence of issues that made 2017 an especially trying year in the area: the influx of tourists for Canada 150, the opening of a rogue safe injection site, the sprouting of pot shops — developments that contributed to charges of “lawlessness” in the city’s core.

“Everybody wants more resources,” said Ford. “We have to work within the constraints that we have.”

Read a certain way, the remark means this: the merchants will have to pony up with their own plans, and they have. Downtown Rideau spent more than $115,000 in 2017 in a street ambassador program that is part tourist-adviser, part eyes-and-ears for police. It will be back in 2018.

Holtom does not so much cling to the idea that downtown is at “a tipping point” in terms of public outrage. If anything, without any real action, things may get worse.

She pointed to a burst of development at the east end of Rideau, bringing more residents to the area, but recently established safe-injection sites — which are to have hands-off, drug-dealing zones — are around those areas.

“It’s been a problem that hasn’t been effectively addressed for the last 25 or 30 years,” said Holtom. “We’re at this moment in time when the solutions have to be driven by the city.”

To contact Kelly Egan, please call 613-726-5896 or email kegan@postmedia.com
Twitter.com/kellyegancolumn

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...e-cry-for-help
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  #138  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 7:17 PM
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  #139  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 7:25 PM
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And I will just put these here as well:

20210111_140941 by harley613, on Flickr

20210111_135531 by harley613, on Flickr
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  #140  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2021, 7:35 PM
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For the love of God, NO!
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